brewed Jamil's American IPA recipe today

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GoldenShowerGladiator

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this was my 5th or 6th all-grain brew so i'm still dialing in my system. i seem to run into the same problem every time. i'm not extracting enough sugars from the grain during my mash. my preboil gravity for 7 gallons ended up being 1.040 (shooting for 1.055). my OG was 1.052 (shooting for 1.065). i bought a mill and crushed my own grains. i added pH stabilizer into the mash water. i mashed for 90 minutes and held my temp between 149-150 degrees which was my goal. not sure what the remedy is. anyone have any pointers?
 
this has happened to my last few brews (ESB, 80 schilling scotch ale, the red ale from Radical Brewing) but all have turned out good. i use beersmith but it's become more of an app for storing recipes since so many of the figures are way off. i've taken tons of readings and plugged them in yet it still has my preboil volumes set over 8 gallons when 7 gallons is where it needs to be.

anyone in the Indianapolis area want to brew with me for a day and get my Beersmith settings straight? i have a fridge full of Russian River sours we can share
 
How accurate is your thermometer and volume markings? If you are positive those two are spot on then you can look at other things. How long does it take you to sparge? I can let it rip in my system, but efficiency suffers so I slow things down. Probably takes me a good 30 minutes or so to collect my 7.5 gallons
 
i use 10 gallon Blichmann boilermaker with a sight glass. i found that it's not accurate so i took a straight bamboo stick and marked off gallon and half-gallon increments all the way to the top of the kettle so i know for sure that's accurate.

my thermometer is calibrated perfectly.

as far as sparging (i batch sparge), takes me roughly 30 minutes as well.
 
This is an 'efficiency' issue. When brewing all-grain, your recipe is based on a certain efficiency. By plugging in your efficiency, you can accurately predict how much grain you will need to mash to achieve your target original gravity.

For example, my efficiency is 70%. If I am using a recipe from a brewer who gets 80% efficiency, I will need to adjust the recipe to include more grain. The brewing software I use is Beersmith and its easy to adjust the efficiency (and determine your efficiency).

Commercial breweries aim for high efficiency to cut costs. For homebrewers, our volumes are small and the cost isn't such an issue. A consistent efficiency from batch to batch is more important than high efficiency.
 
something i noticed today was...let me start with what i use. i use a basic 10 gallon Rubbermaid cooler with a braid as my mashtun. i have 0.6 gallons of deadspace. should i add 0.6 gallons of strike water? for instance, i roll with 1.25 quarts water per 1 pound of grain. i had 14.75 lbs of grain today and used 4.6 gallons of water for the mash. would adding that 0.6 gallons (5.2 total in theory) improve anything?
 
Just curious, you said you know your sight glass isn't accurate, but your rod is. How do you know which is right/wrong?
 
i go by my rod. i don't bother with the sight glass. the sight glass is off by a little less than a 1/4 gallon. i'm sure theres a way to fix it but the rod works and is 100% so i go with it
 
how would i calculate my efficiency using the numbers i pulled? i think Jamil says all the recipes in his Brewing Classic Styles book are based on 70% efficiency.

pre-boil volume / gravity: 7 gallons - 1.040 (his: 7 gallons - 1.055)
OG / batch size: 1.052 - 5.5 gallons (his: 1.065 / 5.5 gallons)
 
make sure you are stirring your mash really well. if you think you've stirred it enough, go for at least another 30 seconds. stir again before taking you 1st runnings. split your sparge into 2 equal parts. each time stirring like crazy.

if you are accurate on your volumes and temp, it seems like its a problem with the sparge.
 
I had similar issues when I started and I just adda pound to the base grain each batch and I hit my target OG. You might just have lower efficiency. Around 60-65% is my guess. It will only cost you an extra buck or two for the additional grain. Also, you should check out ray Daniels book "designing great beers" because he has calculations on how much dme to add to get your OG up out of the mash tun.
 
Try using a thinner mash as well. Most people see efficiency jumps when they go from 1.25qt/lb to 1.5 or higher.
 
how would i calculate my efficiency using the numbers i pulled? i think Jamil says all the recipes in his Brewing Classic Styles book are based on 70% efficiency.

pre-boil volume / gravity: 7 gallons - 1.040 (his: 7 gallons - 1.055)
OG / batch size: 1.052 - 5.5 gallons (his: 1.065 / 5.5 gallons)

I just ask Beersmith, so can't tell you the calculations. If you don't want to get the brewing software, start by adding a lb or two of grain to your next recipe and see how close you get. But brewing software is a big help to me.
 
I don't use Beersmith but can't you set it up to account for your equipment and its associated dead spaces? Sounds like you might just need to play with Beersmith a little more. Also, don't take Jamil's pre-boil 7 gallons for gospel. I need 7.5 to reach my 6 gallons post-boil for a 1 hour boil.

I suppose the first step is to check your crush. Can you post a pic of some crushed grain for us? Might just need to tighten your mill.
 
+1 for tightening up your mill. When I took my BC from .039 to .034 my efficiency went from 68% to 82%.
 
GoldenShowerGladiator said:
what do you mean by "condition your grain"?

Take your grain and spray it lightly with tap water. Mix it around so that the grain is uniformly slightly damp (I use two ounces per 10 lbs) and let it sit for 15 minutes before milling your grain. It soaks in to the husks and causes then to stay intact when milling which gives you much better run off when sparging. It also allows you to mill your grain finer. I have mine at 031 and will be moving it to 029 next brew.
 
something i noticed today was...let me start with what i use. i use a basic 10 gallon Rubbermaid cooler with a braid as my mashtun. i have 0.6 gallons of deadspace. should i add 0.6 gallons of strike water? for instance, i roll with 1.25 quarts water per 1 pound of grain. i had 14.75 lbs of grain today and used 4.6 gallons of water for the mash. would adding that 0.6 gallons (5.2 total in theory) improve anything?

Ignore the dead space numbers.

Your numbers dont sound far off. I mash with 13lbs and 4.25 gallons, then sparge with another 4 gallons and end up with 6.75ish gallons which boils down to 5.25 or so usually, netting me just over 5 gallons after trub.

To get these numbers, I set my batches to 5.5 gallons in Beersmith.
 
this has happened to my last few brews (ESB, 80 schilling scotch ale, the red ale from Radical Brewing) but all have turned out good. i use beersmith but it's become more of an app for storing recipes since so many of the figures are way off. i've taken tons of readings and plugged them in yet it still has my preboil volumes set over 8 gallons when 7 gallons is where it needs to be.

anyone in the Indianapolis area want to brew with me for a day and get my Beersmith settings straight? i have a fridge full of Russian River sours we can share

I'm in the Indy area and would, but I've got the same problem, so I wouldn't be much help!!!
 
so when plugging something into beersmith, how do i go about entering my efficiency so that it adapts to the recipe and accounts for the additional grain i'll need?

as is, the efficiency always reads 72%. i need it to read more like around 60%. if i plug in 60%, it doesn't add additional grain. any pointers?
 
I use Brewpal and it doesn't automatically correct for efficiency so it's up to me to adjust my grains to make sure I hit my numbers. All I do is add or subtract from my base grain.
 
so i plan on buying the ingredients for a British Mild this weekend. here's the malt bill..

7 lbs. 2-row
1/2 lb. crystal 60
6 oz crystal 120
.25 lbs Pale Chocolate
2 oz black patent

how much extra should i buy? i'm not understanding the exact math in coming up with how much extra grain to buy
 
If you have already entered your recipe into Beersmith, click the 'scale recipe' button and change your efficiency. New efficiency 60%, and then 'tick' the 'match original gravity, color and bitterness' box.
 
Try using a thinner mash as well. Most people see efficiency jumps when they go from 1.25qt/lb to 1.5 or higher.

Not true. A thicker mash frees up more water for sparging, thus increasing efficiency. That's why I choose to mash at 1.1 qt/lb for most brews.
 
so i plan on buying the ingredients for a British Mild this weekend. here's the malt bill..

7 lbs. 2-row
1/2 lb. crystal 60
6 oz crystal 120
.25 lbs Pale Chocolate
2 oz black patent

how much extra should i buy? i'm not understanding the exact math in coming up with how much extra grain to buy

The smaller grain bill will change your efficiency, so its not an apples to apples comparison.
 
The smaller grain bill will change your efficiency, so its not an apples to apples comparison.

+1 get the grain bill you describe and then buy a 3lb bag of light dme. If necessary you can add some DME to the end of the boil to get your gravity where you want it. Store the unused DME and use for starters or other batches gravity adjustment. Take good notes and you will start to get a better feel for efficiency on your system
 
This is an 'efficiency' issue...

The brewing software I use is Beersmith and its easy to adjust the efficiency (and determine your efficiency).

how would i calculate my efficiency using the numbers i pulled?

I just ask Beersmith, so can't tell you the calculations. If you don't want to get the brewing software, start by adding a lb or two of grain to your next recipe and see how close you get. But brewing software is a big help to me.

as is, the efficiency always reads 72%. i need it to read more like around 60%. if i plug in 60%, it doesn't add additional grain. any pointers?

so i plan on buying the ingredients for a British Mild this weekend. here's the malt bill..

7 lbs. 2-row
1/2 lb. crystal 60
6 oz crystal 120
.25 lbs Pale Chocolate
2 oz black patent

how much extra should i buy? i'm not understanding the exact math in coming up with how much extra grain to buy

+1 get the grain bill you describe and then buy a 3lb bag of light dme. If necessary you can add some DME to the end of the boil to get your gravity where you want it. Store the unused DME and use for starters or other batches gravity adjustment. Take good notes and you will start to get a better feel for efficiency on your system
We've gone this whole thread without one post explaining the basics of calculating extract efficiency?

Brew software is great and all, but I really think brewers should be able to understand everything that's going on without it. It's nice to have a calculator to do fancy math for you, but without understanding how 2 + 2 gets 4, you're just shooting in the dark.

Keep this link handy: Malt Yields

Forget Beersmith. Next brew day, sit down with this link and a pad of paper. Write out your malt ingredients. Make a note of your preboil volume. Then take your first malt ingredient, multiply the weight by maximum PPG, then multiply by your efficiency, then divide by your volume. That number is what you should expect to get from that malt ingredient. For an example:

7 lbs. 2-row
1/2 lb. crystal 60
6 oz crystal 120
.25 lbs Pale Chocolate
2 oz black patent

Let's say you're shooting for 7 gallons preboil.

7 lbs 2-row x 38 PPG x 60% efficiency / 7 gallons = 22.8. You should expect 7lbs of 2 row to get you to 1.0228.

.5lb c60 x 34 PPG x 60% / 7g = 1.46. Your half pound of crystal will give you another 1.00146 of extract. 1.0228 + 1.00146 means we're at 1.024

.375lb c120 x 33PPG x .6 / 7g = 1. 1.025

.25lb Pale Choco x 28PPG x .6 / 7g = .5. Still in the 1.025-26 range.

.125lb black patent x 25PPG x .6 / 7g = .25. Let's say we're at 1.026.

When you're done mashing, if you get 60% efficiency and have 7 gallons in your kettle, you should be able to take a hydro reading and be right around 1.026. If you're not, either your volume is off or your efficiency is. Once you know how to calculate this, you can play with the numbers to give you what you want. For example, if you have 7 gallons preboil at 1.026, you have 182 total points of extract (26 points x 7 gallons). So if you expect to have 6 gallons at the end of the boil, you can figure you'll have a 1.030 beer (182 points / 6 gallons). Or, if you end your sparge and realize you have 7 gallons of 1.030 wort, you can figure you actually got 70% efficiency (2row pale x 38PPG x .7 / 7 = 26, which is a four-point bump and will take you from 1.026 to 1.030).

You can also work backwards. Unless you've got a ton of them, forget calculating specialty grains. As you can see from your mild, they contribute a very small percentage of the total extract for a given beer. If you had something like 14.5 lb of pale malt in your IPA recipe (don't have BCS in front of me), JZ's 70% efficiency would get you in the 1.055 range (14.5 x 38 x .7 / 7g). But if you only got 1.040, you had more like 50% efficiency (40 points x 7g gives you 280 extract points, 280 points from 14.5 gallons of grain is about 19 points per pound per gallon, 19 PPG instead of 38 PPG is 50%). Maybe you did slightly worse, because specialty grains contributed a couple points.

Seriously, the next few brew days, leave the software closed. Use a pen and paper and come up with what you should expect from each malt. Once you understand where the numbers come from, you should be able to hit them. And once you can reliably hit your numbers, you can start tweaking to get things where you like them. Maybe you love your process and don't want to change anything to get better efficiency (I think malt conditioning is a PITA): then just add enough base malt to get the gravity where you want it. For your IPA, each pound of 2row you add is going to get you 2.7 points in 7 gallons on your 50% system. If you were 15 points short (1.055-1.040), add 5.5 lbs, and you'll be there. Maybe you'd like to get better efficiency. Then you can start to fall down THAT rabbit hole.

But it all starts with knowing where your extract comes from.
 
That was extremely helpful. I'm definitely going to try it that way for this next brew. I think having a keen understanding of things like this will help me way more than brewing software
 

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