Stone XI Anniversary Clone

Williams 728
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So I brewed this back in November, and it turned out great. I left it in primary for 2 weeks, then secondary/dry-hop for 2 weeks, cold crashed and kegged. After 2 weeks in the keg it was fantastic! I bottled some of it with my beergun and took it to various holiday parties, and everyone loved it. Even people who aren't big beer drinkers. In fact, some of my beer drinking friends liked it better than Stones! And after having some at stones winter storm last weekend, I agree. Anyway...here's the recipe I used....I made a 2 cup starter the day before.

15lb 14oz 2-row
14.11oz crystal 60L
14.11oz carafa III
2.75oz chinook 13%AA at 90mins
1oz Amarillo 9.5% at flame-out
1oz Simcoe 11.9% at flame out
2oz Simcoe 11.9% dry-hop
2oz Amarillo 9.5% dry-hop
WLP001

The simcoe were pellets but the asmarillo and chinook were leaf. I mashed for 70 mins at 154F. Boiled 90 mins. Recipe was calculated for 70% eff, and I hit it on the spot. OG 1.082 FG 1.018
 
I can't seem to find Carafa III Special at my LHBS. I live in Olympia, WA and the best I could do was find a HBS in Lakewood, WA (20 min north of me) that said they had "Carafa® 500-600L." I called the shop and they had no idea if it was I, II, or III, and had no idea if it was the Special (unhusked), and had no idea what I meant by "unhusked."

The best I can find locally is the standard chocolate and black patent malts.

I am very limited on space, time, and equipment, so I've been planning to use a partial extract/partial grain.

Some other posts have suggested using chocolate malt, some have suggested cold steeping, and some have suggested using Sinamar. While it may be totally kosher as far as German purity laws, seems lame to add a color extract just for color's sake.

Anyone have any ideas? Would using chocolate malt give a drastically different flavor profile?
 
portski7 said:
Shoulda figured the Chinook and Amarillo... used that in a Ruination clone a while ago + some magnums. And I guess Wyeast 1056 would be the winner for the yeast on this one.

So stone is pretty good about giving out recipes for their brews? I've heard tell that they wont even let out what hops are in Arrogant, so I wasn't sure if talking to them about this would work.

Thanks a bunch man!
Click to expand...

I think it is all chinook in arrogant B from what I have read
 
Has anyone figured out what the water should be like for this clone? It is hoppy yet darks. I am guess Ca should be added by way of chalk compared to gypsum which will also add hardness, then either a little gypsum or epson salt to bring up the sulfates to bring out the bitterness.


Does anyone have rough numbers that they brewed this with and turned out good?
 
After having this on tap at Stone, some time ago, I swore I would brew it at some point. That "some point" is now!

When I was at stone that time, they said that they shot to make their water like London. I didn't think to ask whether or not that was for all their beers, but I wouldn't be surprised.

Of course, that beer had been aged for 2 years before I had it. I don't know if I'll be able to hang on to mine for that long!

I did substitute Marris Otter for the pale, which will be a bit of a change...but for the better I suspect!

I'll post the results, along with the water profile I went with, once I've settled on everything.

Cheers,

Mike
 
humann_brewing said:
Has anyone figured out what the water should be like for this clone? It is hoppy yet darks. I am guess Ca should be added by way of chalk compared to gypsum which will also add hardness, then either a little gypsum or epson salt to bring up the sulfates to bring out the bitterness.


Does anyone have rough numbers that they brewed this with and turned out good?
Click to expand...

I've never brewed this, but I have heard that Stone uses city water that is pretty much just stripped of the chloromine that they use in the water around here.

I just got my report mailed to me from the county and the numbers are as follows for North County San Diego 2008 study:

Chloride: 95.9
Sulfate: 192
Sodium: 86.7
Total Hardness: 241

They don't seem to list some of the other elements for the 2008 survey, but the numbers for the 2007 one are as follows:

Calcium: 35.6
Carbonate: 0*
Chloride: 88.9
Magnesium: 17.4
Sodium: 79.7
Sulfate: 167
Bicarbonate: 127
Total Alkalinity (as CO3): 105
Total hardness: 220

*what's up with the CO3 being 0? If I understand it correctly, the molecules split apart into ions in the presence of water, which, if that is the case, how can you have a "Alkalinity - Total as CaCO3" of 105, Bicarbonate of 127, and a Total Hardness (I'm of the understanding that this impacts the CO3 content as well) of about 220.

I asked this question on a thread in here, but never recieved an answer, so it's still a misery for me on how to adjust water, do I have to add a crapload of carbonates or what?

Anyway, the tables are here (Stone is in the Miramar treatment area):
http://www.sandiego.gov/water/quality/pdf/waterqual08.pdf
http://www.sandiego.gov/water/quality/pdf/waterqual07.pdf
http://www.sandiego.gov/water/quality/pdf/tbl6.pdf
 
Stone does use the local water...but they have a large R/O unit and my understanding from the tour guy was they roughly used 1/2 R/O water and 1/2 local water. They adjusted the ions from there to come close to London. That was my understanding at least...

So, that is what I did today, essentially. 6 gal San Diego water and 4 gal r/o, adjusted to come close to London, with a little extra gypsum to bring out the bitterness a tiny bit more.

I was shooting for 1.085, and hit it on the nose after the 90 min boil! :mug:

The only thing I did different was that I only had 2 oz of chinook, so I had to use an oz of Centennial for the extra bittering addition. The AA worked out that it was an even ounce to get me to the 120 IBU.

I also went ahead and used the Cents as a First Wort Hop. I just have had so much luck with FWH, and when I thought about it, it seemed just make sense.

Now for the WLP001 slurry harvested from the conical from my last batch to get in there and start working!

Cheers,

Mike
 
I am mashing this as we speak. I took a similar approach as the others, but instead of Carafa III I am using roasted barley. Now, here is how I figured I could use it. I am going to put it in halfway through the mash. I hope to not get as much bitter as I do color. I might even wait until 15 minutes left in the mash, or right as I sparge, I don't know. I am then not using the same hops as I have a ton of other flavors. In all I will make IPA and it will be dark, but I am not sure if I will get black and I am not sure if it will be really good or just so-so.

Wish me luck.
 
So, after mashing about 50 minutes, I added the crushed Black Barley. It is taking about a half an hour in order to extract the color and I think that I will start sparging when it gets close enough. I don't want it too bitter and I think that if it takes me 30 minutes to sparge then that wiill be an hour and bitter enough. Color is coming across more like a dark brown IPA than a Black.

Again, without debittered carafa III, I have to do this. If I could find it closer (ie...SF bay area) then I would have it, but I am not going to pay to ship one pound so I am making due with what I have.
 
I like the color. It is not black, dark brown. But in the end I think that it will be fine because I tasted little to no bitter. I just added the first wort hops and have another two gallons to sparge and then on to the Boil!
 
Just got to boiling and added the first addition. At 20 minutes I will add the second and at 5 the last. Then dry hop. Looking good and I might just brew up another beer today. :mug:
 
Just now chilling and starting my second beer. It is going to be a nice and light little fellow. The BLACK IPA came out at 1.077 and about 79IBU. Good color on it, I will take a picture and post it and I like the way it smells.
 
Matt Up North said:
Wish me luck.
Click to expand...
So, what is this, Black Tuesday? Matt's got one going on the west coast and thelorax121 has got the south covered. I just mashed in to supporting the Northeast.

Hey Matt. I did another small expermental batch of the black ale a few weeks ago. Used a 50/50 mix of roasted barley and carafa to darken it up. The plan is to oak it when it goes to the secondary for dry hopping. I'd let you know how the roasted barley works, but you'll probably be drinking yours before me. I want to let it sit on the oak for at least 4 weeks.

Good luck!
 
So brew day went as well as possible. I hit my OG on the nose at 1.082. Mashed at 154-153 for 60 mins, sparged to collect just under 7 gallons, and boiled for 90 mins to collect right around my target 5.5 gallons. This was my first time using whole hops (simco) so I poured the last bit of wort through a sanitized strainer to separate at least a majority of the hop mass, not sure if this is protocol but it seems to have worked out, and we are chirpin' and burpin' as of early this morning. The recipe I used is as followed.

15.5 Pale 2-Row
14 oz Light Crystal 50-60L
14 oz Carafa Special III ~500

2.2 oz Chinook 11% @ 90
1 oz Amarillo 7% @ 10
1 oz Simco 13.2% (Whole Leaf) @ 10
1/2 oz Amarillo 7% @ 5
1/2 oz Simco 13.2% (Whole Leaf) @ 5

1 Whirlfloc Tablet @ 15

2 Pkg Safale-05

OG: 1.082 IBU: 129


Ill let everyone know how this bad boy is coming along as I...test :)
 
Well I was surprised that it took as long as it did for my fermentation to kick off. Something like 18 hours after adding the slurry saved from the conical of my last batch. It was essentially a 22oz bottle worth and I let it come to room temp first. Maybe there was less viable yeast in there than I had thought. Hope I hit my target gravity. Normally I make a starter, so maybe that's part of it. It really going off now so I'm pretty sure I'll be ok. Sure smells great!!!

Mike
 
Well, all went well on Black Tuesday. I got it into a fermenter and will be checking up on it on Friday. I added a half pound of hops to the boil and will add another two or three to the fermenter as Dry Hop. I will let you know what it tastes like on Sunday when I taste a sample. I don't care what it tastes like as long as it doesn't taste like stout, coffee or bitter. Otherwise, I hopped it enough that it better taste like an IPA.
 
Matt Up North said:
Well, all went well on Black Tuesday.
Click to expand...
Went OK for me too. There were a few issues, but it’ll be beer. The worse thing being that I forgot my flame-out hop additions. I had chilled and pitched the yeast before noticing the last Tupperware container sitting on the counter. (Yes, I was drinking while brewing.:p) Recently read something about Russian River doing a double dry hop. This should be a good time to give that a try. Anyone with experience doing this? If so, what was your schedule?

Looking forward to hearing eveyone's Black results.
 
Matt, how much are you planning on dry hopping? According to the Stone Email, they said they use 1.5 lbs per barrell of the simco/amarillo blend which I calulated to about four ounces per 5 gals. That sound about right? Also, out of curiosity would you mind posting up you hopping schedule for some comparison? Thanks, and happy brewing
 
Again, I am not making Stones because of the hopping schedule. I went more with making an IPA that I normally do and adding the black malt. I know that I should have maybe just put this into the Black IPA post, but I went with this one instead. I look at this as a test run of black IPA for me, so instead of using a different IPA recipe that I haven't tried to make I went with one that I know works and then made it black.

I hopped as such:
1 oz Centennial FWH
1 oz each Centennial and Cascade 60min, 20min, 5min
2 oz Centennial and 2 oz Cascade DH

Again, I will be dry hopping most likely on day ten or so, so next friday. I will rack off the yeast and then do my first "secondary" dry hopping.

I will admit that I just picked up some Simcoe and some Amarillo for an IPA down the road.

As far as double dry hopping, I really think that you need to have some sort of conical or bottom draining fermentor. Otherwise, using a sack I see a lack of utilization. Everyone I talk to says to use a conical, get the yeast out, dry hop, blow C02 every couple of days. That is all that I can input.
 
I just tested this guy out (like promised) and it is perfect. It looks dark (definately more like a dark brown than black, that or a light black) and tastes just like IPA. I took some readings and have a preliminary 3.7p (1.014) @ 8.25%abv. I am excited because I wasn't sure how the Black roasted would work, but it came out good. There is no bitter from the black roasted (or there is but it is highly disguised by the hop bitter at 70IBU). Black Tuesday IPA is a winner and I will make it again for sure. Especially at 8.25%, gets a good kick!
 
Going to throw the dry hops into this one today. Going to settle with an 1.5oz Centennial and 1oz of Cascade. Should get that nice Centennial citrus that I am looking to complement this beer.
 
Matt Up North said:
Going to throw the dry hops into this one today. Going to settle with an 1.5oz Centennial and 1oz of Cascade. Should get that nice Centennial citrus that I am looking to complement this beer.
Click to expand...
Same schedule here. I dragged my earlier batch of black out of the basement this morning for transfer to a secondary tonight. This is the one using roasted barley along with some carafa. It was a 4 gallon batch. I'll be transfer most of it to a 3 gallon carboy and dry hopping with a half ounce of each Centennial, Amarillo and Chinook. Also throwing in a French Oak spiral (think there's room in there for the kitchen sink ;).) I'll bottle what ever doesn't fit in the carboy for comparison without the wood and dry hopping.

This batch was brewed on July 2nd.
Can a Black Twosday brew join the club? :D
 
I just racked it and dry hopped, got about 5ish gallons of a delicious looking black substance :) I always use my mouth to start the siphon and I got some beer in the old boca. Very bitter flavored and very complex. I am somewhat surprised. I decided on the less dry hopping because of the amount of bitter already present. I wanted the floral from the hops, not the acid that comes with them as well. I think this is going to be a winner in the end! This will be a bottle conditioned beer for me, one of the first in a long time.
 
I just kegged this up and holy bejesus is it phenomenal. I kinda want to bottle condition it, but at the same time I don't because of the hops. I think I will just keg it and have it on tap at the Case del Matt, so stop by and bring beer.

It is hoppy, bitter, malty on the nose, very aromatically hoppy. The flavor is dark, but not bitter from the black malt. The finish is very dry, at 1.011 and the alcohol not apparent at all at 8.25%. A winner I tell you, a winner.
 
Matt Up North said:
I just kegged this up and holy bejesus is it phenomenal . . . I will just keg it and have it on tap at the Case del Matt, so stop by and bring beer.
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Damn, that sounds delicious! I’m jealous. Been busy and haven’t even gotten mine into the secondary yet. Thinking about throwing some hops into the primary tonight, waiting a week, and then dry hopping again in a secondary.

Wish you were closer. I’d be tempted to take you up on the "stop by" offer. :tank:
 
I don't want to admit it, but this beer surprised me. Not only is it balanced (moreso in my oppinion than the Stone version which finishes at a higher gravity) but it is quite complex for being so simple. I am a fan of how it turned out and might try to have one of these on tap for my OctemberFest in November.
 
Kegged this bad boy last night. Went from 1.085 to 1.017. Nearly 82% attenuation! So, finished the predicted > 9% ABV. Got it on gas, likely will benefit from some additional aging, though its a good one. I'm curious how the substitution for the normal pale malt with Marris Otter will pan out. I also salvaged my "dry" hops for future boil addition. I can't wait! Also am bottle conditioning a few bombers, including one primed with maple syrup. That should make for an interesting twist!
 
My batch has finished up carbing in the bottle, and oh my is it good. Absolutly bursting with fruity hop bitterness with simco really shining through (used whole leaf simco and pellet amarillo for dry hop, and I definitly notice a much stronger aroma from the cones). It has a bit more roastiness from the carafa than what I remember from stone's, but that may just be because its youth, and I suspect it will mellow with time. Long story short, one of my best beers so far, and one I look forward to toying with!
 
I have been drinking this the last week and it is fabulous. I really enjoy how the hops and malt both come out. There is a touch of roast in mine, but in all really not too noticiable. I will get some carafa III next time to see the difference. I am trying to drink this as quickly as possible. I don't want the hop flavor to fade away with all of the money I put into it in the little buggers.

I think I posted but I used the exact recipe just with roasted barley instead of carafa III
 
xumbi said:
I've been playing with an extract interpretation, how does this look?

5 gal batch

Malts:
9 lbs Light DME
0.5 lbs Crystal 60L
0.5 lbs Carafa Special

Hops:
1 oz Chinook @ 60 min
0.75 Amarillo & 0.75 Simcoe @ 10 min

I'm just wondering how much Amarillo and Simcoe would qualify as "LOTS!" for dry hopping? Also, I think I'll have a hard time finding Simcoe, can anyone recommend a substitute? Magnum perhaps?
Click to expand...

The ratios originally posted were most likely for an AG bill. If you leave the DME, I'd bump the crystal and carafa up to 12 oz each. (14 lbs 2-row, .75 lb. crystal, .75 lb. carafa = 90%-5%-5%)

As for the hops, if you're going for anything close to 120 IBU's, I'd dump in 2 (maybe 3) ounces of chinook at 60 min, at least 1 oz each of amarillo and centennial/cascade at 10 min, and dry-hop with 1 oz each amarillo and centennial/cascade. I'd probably use 2 oz chinook at 60 and prob more amarillo/centennial/cascade at 30, 15, and 5 instead.

Does that look right or am I just waaaay off? It looks right...

I know hops are expensive, but so is a $9-14 bottle of XI.

*edit* Sorry, I jumped the gun after being on the second page of posts... This was probably unecessary
 
I just made up a ten gallon batch of this using the original recipe for malt and then changed up the hops completely. It went from 1.073 to 1.014. Then I used a pound and a half of pellet hops! :drunk: It is currently dry hopping and will be bad ass!
 
Matt what was your grain bill in the end? Between this and the Black IPA thread recipes are all over the place.

Like you I don't have access to Carafa but do have roasted barley. I'm curious as to what you found best worked to get the color but not the roasty flavour?
 

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