The [Horribly Unpopular] Soccer Thread

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Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
Well, just to reiterate, I said at the beginning that pro/rel would not be suitable for MLS at this time. I just thought that the article Reno linked to about the significance of pro/rel on who wins a title was a load of bollocks. :eek:
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Hey, don't you talk to me in the passive voice. Rude! ;) :mug:

DISCLAIMER!:
I know you are a reasonable chap but people can get weird online, especially about pro/rel, parity, etc. Nothing I say from here on out is meant to be in jest or presented in a rude fashion.

So my brain isn't working well due to being sick so I'm doing everything in list form:

1) Dan Loney never said there is a connection between pro/rel and winning titles. (One thing to note about him is that unless you've read him a few times before it's hard to tell when he's being serious or sarcastic. He jumps back and forth a lot.)

2) I never said there is a connection between pro/re- blah blah blah. Which leads into #3....

3) You said pro/rel gives everybody a chance for the title. That's why I busted out the title winners of each major league. But I'm sorry, most big leagues have gotten to the point that those at the top (whether it be the top 1 or the top 4-5) spend magnitudes more than the rest of the league and thus there is, in practice, zero possibility of a promoted team to win the title. If you closed the system of each of the aforementioned leagues, you could bet your baby you wouldn't see a novel champion for a century.

4) You said pro/rel sparks interest for poor teams. Okay, breaking it down a litte:
- Relegation: The crappiest teams have pillowfights to determine who is the least sucky to cling on to their current league and who gets booted into oblivion. I honestly don't see why that would boost interest. I can't tell you how many complaints I've heard about not people not being able to follow their team once relegated. That sounds freaking awful. And not being relegated doesn't seem like something worth cheering about. "Yay, we were the second worst team in the league!"

- Promotion: If a club moves up to, say, the Premiere League and all of a sudden there are more fans both at games and on the couch.... isn't that just more plastic fandom, which should be hated by any real fan of the game?

Okay, that's all I have right now... brain no more workey. Please review and send your response, as internet discourse is apt to proceed.
 
Reno_eNVy said:
1) Dan Loney never said there is a connection between pro/rel and winning titles. (One thing to note about him is that unless you've read him a few times before it's hard to tell when he's being serious or sarcastic. He jumps back and forth a lot.)

2) I never said there is a connection between pro/re- blah blah blah. Which leads into #3....

3) You said pro/rel gives everybody a chance for the title. That's why I busted out the title winners of each major league. But I'm sorry, most big leagues have gotten to the point that those at the top (whether it be the top 1 or the top 4-5) spend magnitudes more than the rest of the league and thus there is, in practice, zero possibility of a promoted team to win the title. If you closed the system of each of the aforementioned leagues, you could bet your baby you wouldn't see a novel champion for a century.

4) You said pro/rel sparks interest for poor teams. Okay, breaking it down a litte:
- Relegation: The crappiest teams have pillowfights to determine who is the least sucky to cling on to their current league and who gets booted into oblivion. I honestly don't see why that would boost interest. I can't tell you how many complaints I've heard about not people not being able to follow their team once relegated. That sounds freaking awful. And not being relegated doesn't seem like something worth cheering about. "Yay, we were the second worst team in the league!"

- Promotion: If a club moves up to, say, the Premiere League and all of a sudden there are more fans both at games and on the couch.... isn't that just more plastic fandom, which should be hated by any real fan of the game?
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1. Dan Loney ~ "Promotion and relegation has promoted so much competition in Spain that they have had nine separate champions, ever. Two of those clubs have combined for fifty-four titles. If Atletico wins the title this season, that will mean the championship has left Real or Barcelona for the fifth time in thirty years. Scotland – eh, too easy. There have been as many different English champions as there have been World Series winners – 23"...........etc.

2. No, I assumed you were on board with the content of the link you recommended though.

3. This is the only important point. A pillow fight? Can't follow a relegated team?

Have you ever had a passion for any sports team that is not always so good, and suffered relegation? A relegation battle is every bit as emotive as a championship challenge. Football is not just about who wins the title, it is about hope, despair, joy, sorrow.

With every relegation comes the next season full of aspirations for promotion the following season.

Look back through this very thread, and you will see two videos posted by myself showing our fans invading the pitch after two consecutive promotions. These followed two relegations. The fans were still there in very good numbers. Promo /Rel has been the major factor in my 50 years as a Saints supporter. Yes, I would swap it for titles, but without Promo/Rel, I would have had an extremely dull life as a supporter.

Again, pro/rel is not for MLS right now.....But if it is never on the agenda for the future, then it will be missing a very important factor for the people that really matter. The fans.
 
Well, as far as #1, Loney was using those examples to show pro/rel doesn't spur competition. I don't think the intentions were to say pro/rel = constant champions. MLS has had so many different champions in just a short time mostly due to parity (not a lack of pro/rel) and that is a stance I will always be behind. There aren't many other leagues that can have a club like Portland finish second-to-last in 2012 to topping the Western Conference in 2013. There are loopholes that allow clubs to use their deeper wallets (DP rule) but nobody stays on top for long.

But good points on the emotional side. You're absolutely right that the agony of defeat is just as much a part of the life of a supporter as the thrill of victory and celebration, and that part should be felt by all. An MLS equivalent would be not making it to the playoffs. I know it isn't nearly as painful as being demoted to a lower league, but I bet any Toronto fan will tell you missing out on an extra month of post-season play every year is no picnic. But they still get to stick around to try and improve and break that barrier.

I've enjoyed how you've discussed this topic well and with reason. I tip my cap to you, good sir.
 
Don't really watch much of the English premier league but it was on while I was at the gym. Did anybody see Manchester city vs Everton? The guy for MC CLEARLY wasn't hurt and wasted a good 5 minutes off the clock while a stretcher came out near the end of the match because MC was up 3-2. Does that happen often?


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Sunderland's last 4 matches include a crushing victory home vs Cardiff, shocking wins at Old Trafford and Stamford Bridge and a draw at Etihad.
 
IceMonster said:
Don't really watch much of the English premier league but it was on while I was at the gym. Did anybody see Manchester city vs Everton? The guy for MC CLEARLY wasn't hurt and wasted a good 5 minutes off the clock while a stretcher came out near the end of the match because MC was up 3-2. Does that happen often?


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That was the most over the top example I've seen, but usually you'll get a bit of gamesmanship where players take their time getting up to eat the clock when they're winning.

In other news the Chicago Fire manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory... 0-2-6...
 
aygov said:
That was the most over the top example I've seen, but usually you'll get a bit of gamesmanship where players take their time getting up to eat the clock when they're winning.

In other news the Chicago Fire manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory... 0-2-6...
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Actually maybe the worst I saw was in the Women's World Cup. When a Brazilian woman was on the ground for 5 minutes called for the stretcher the second she hit the sidelines she popped up and was waving to be called on.

JMO FIFA should force players who're taken off on stretchers to stay off the pitch for a minimum of 5 minutes. Or any player who does that then pops up like that gets shown a red and an indirect kick is called from where the player went down.
 
A guy got hit by a toilet thrown from a building during a soccer riot in Brazil tonight. He was killed instantly. World cup is going to be a mess. You couldn't pay me to go there.
 
Can we give Portland a hand for winning their first game this year.
 
Grannyknot said:
HA! I turned the game off at 3-0, thinking they would probably go on to make it 5 or 6.
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They bottled it quite nicely. I had completely forgotten about the game, but all the gnashing of teeth and such coming from the scousers on my FB feed reminded me.

I'd say they are still in it because all it take is City losing one of their 2.... but with Suarez blubbering like a baby at the end of the game they are well and truly out of the title race.
 
Liverpool don't need to worry. If they don't deserve to win the league the proper way, they will still have a chance in the play offs!..........Yes, Reno, that one was for you. ;)
 
Catfish78 said:
I think it is a horrible idea. Good for the big teams that have a massive system and expansive programs, ****e for the smaller clubs.


Sent from tropical Finland
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Exactly, is this so City can have something to do with all their overpriced bench warmers?
 
hopstupid said:
Seems to work Chelsea & Man City seem to be winning trophies. When was the last time Arsenal won a trophy?
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Paging Hopstupid.....
where have you been this season? Talked an awful lot of smack last summer.

Anyway, your lot only need to win by 18 goals sunday to avoid relegation. Shouldn't be too hard against a team that hasn't won a trophy in 9 years.
 
Grannyknot said:
Paging Hopstupid.....
where have you been this season? Talked an awful lot of smack last summer.

Anyway, your lot only need to win by 18 goals sunday to avoid relegation. Shouldn't be too hard against a team that hasn't won a trophy in 9 years.
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Arsenal Suck!

I also root for City! How are they doing?
 
Don't be mad at little jack.
Just sit there & watch him like your defenders did.

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hopstupid said:
Arsenal Suck!

I also root for City! How are they doing?
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FantasticPlastic%20Logo.jpg
 
Grannyknot said:
What are everyone's thoughts on the FFP penalties handed to City & PSG?
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Proof that FFP is a pile of wank.

Oh dear, the rich teams got fined 50 mill (20 for P$G)... that'll show em!! Oh, let's take a team that has 2 first teams full of players and then take 4 away from them for the CL... that'll show em!!
 
Grannyknot said:
Don't be mad at little jack.
Just sit there & watch him like your defenders did.

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Jack is the one who has been watching seems like he's been injured all year.
 
Grannyknot said:
That's ok. Ramsey played pretty well this year too.

iKYXXFDEKJi17.gif
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He was hurt a lot this year too. Walcott is out to, without him arsenal seems so slow. He could stretch the defense without him they are different team. They have no depth not enough for all the games you have to play if you make champions league and all the other tournaments . On the bright you just have to beat hull city and you'll have a trophy.
 
hopstupid said:
He was hurt a lot this year too. Walcott is out to, without him arsenal seems so slow. He could stretch the defense without him they are different team. They have no depth not enough for all the games you have to play if you make champions league and all the other tournaments . On the bright you just have to beat hull city and you'll have a trophy.
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Well, I'm sure Ramsey will be rested sunday, so we'll see how slow they are without him.

Not having Walcott hurt us. Probably cost us the title. But we've got plenty of depth. Its just the sheer amount of injuries that we had at one time that hurt us. Its hard to say depth is an issue when you've got 6 midfielders out injured and can still put out a decent midfield.
 
Anybody going to any of the Send-Off Series matches? The fiancee and I will be going to the one in SF vs Azerbaijan on the 27th. We didn't really think we were going until less than two weeks ago so sadly we're not able to stand with the American Outlaws. But we will be in a very close section (4th row from a corner flag, actually! GREAT SEATS!) Found some sweet USA WC scarves on ebay for crazy cheap, won them at a total of $13 for two. And a couple days ago we found Authentic primary jerseys at a great price, at Sheels of all places. We scoured the internet looking for our 2012/2013 hoops jerseys but sadly we couldn't find any for less than $140. When we found the 2014 ones at Scheels we debated it for about 30 seconds until I said, "Well, they are polos. We can wear them to all kinds of other things." She then promptly snatched them off the rack.

We are ready to go and root on the Yanks! San Francisco is only a short 4 hours away and the drive will certainly be worth it!

But I'm beyond pumped for June. We've been watching and reading any bit of WC/Group-of-Death/USA/etc/etc preview information we can find. I have time-off for work on USA match days. This needs to hurry up and happen!
 
Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:
B teams belong in a league of B teams. End of.
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I think I agree with this.
I listened to Greg Dyke's comments on 5-live this morning. He said, the U-21 league doesn't work. But he didn't expound on why it didn't work, and why they haven't tried to improve it.

Here's my thought...create some interest in the U-21 league. Set up their games on Thursday & Friday nights, let them play in the regular team stadium, not on some crap training ground, & do away with having 3 or 4 different academy teams.
 
Grannyknot said:
Well, I'm sure Ramsey will be rested sunday, so we'll see how slow they are without him.

Not having Walcott hurt us. Probably cost us the title. But we've got plenty of depth. Its just the sheer amount of injuries that we had at one time that hurt us. Its hard to say depth is an issue when you've got 6 midfielders out injured and can still put out a decent midfield.
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Very true and City would not of been able to make this late run this year for the League Title, if not for Arsenal. The bravery and heroics of Koscielny saved the life of Edin Džeko.




Such a brave frenchman
 

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