Hey everyone, ive been secretly reading all the threads but now ive finally made an account just to throw this in your brew pot.. Ive been wanting to start AG brewing for a while so im gathering supplies.. I already had a 5 gallon glass carboy and a friend picked another up for me at an auction for a dollar haha I also have a Home Depot 5g mash tun almost fully converted. Anyways, I only have a ss stock pot thats about 3.75 gallons to the brim (and plan to get bigger when budget allows) but I want to try a 5 gallon AG batch with what I have right now. Every way I could imagine it, id still need to be able to boil the whole 5 gallons and would just need a bigger pot. BUT, and heres where I dont want to offend anyone, what if I were to essentially make 2 seperate brews.. one 2 gallon hop brew with 5 gallon batch's worth of hops.. normal 1hr boil.. and then one 3 gallon grain brew with, again, 5 gallon batch's worth of grains.. normal 1hr boil. And then just what it sounds like, marry them together in the fermenter. I figured id put the hoppy water in first then id have time to heat up sparge water in my only stock pot. What do you think? Would the grain water be too thick? Do the hops REALLY NEED to boil WITH the grains? Ive just never seen this done so oddly before but maybe someone out there has.. If so, maybe some advice? And I will do this out of pure curiosity, so dont bother with, "just try it" this is more of a pregame pep talk. I need your wisdom HBT!
Hoppy water, meet grain water.
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BobbiLynn
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Not exactly as you are describing(and btw, there is always the partial boil option) but I've done that and split the 5 gallon batch into half/half because I had to brew indoors and my stove won't handle a larger pot. But I did a 2.5 gallon batch, then another, using half the ingredients in each. Took forever but got the job done.
Looking forward to hearing more comments about a split batch and how to best go about it if that is your only option at the time.
Looking forward to hearing more comments about a split batch and how to best go about it if that is your only option at the time.
I think you need to boil your hops in actual wort (not plain water) to get good hop utilization. There maybe some other reasons to boil your hops in wort instead of plain water. Those are chemistry and pH related.
First, you don't boil your grain, it gets mashed (and sparged) and the wort drains off.
Take your first wort runnings and boil that with the hops. At the same time you can boil the rest of your first runnings and the sparges in a 2nd and 3rd pot. You actually need more than 5 gallons of collected wort in total since there is significant boil off, about a gallon or more per hour. You can always keep topping up with remaining wort from the sparges. You want to end up with 5-5.5 gallons of wort at the end of your boil.
As long as you're not intending to use large amounts of hops (4+ oz) in your 2 gallon pot I think you're gonna be OK. You can always split the hops over your other boiling vessels. Total hop amount stays the same.
Let us know how it works out.
First, you don't boil your grain, it gets mashed (and sparged) and the wort drains off.
Take your first wort runnings and boil that with the hops. At the same time you can boil the rest of your first runnings and the sparges in a 2nd and 3rd pot. You actually need more than 5 gallons of collected wort in total since there is significant boil off, about a gallon or more per hour. You can always keep topping up with remaining wort from the sparges. You want to end up with 5-5.5 gallons of wort at the end of your boil.
As long as you're not intending to use large amounts of hops (4+ oz) in your 2 gallon pot I think you're gonna be OK. You can always split the hops over your other boiling vessels. Total hop amount stays the same.
Let us know how it works out.
Excellent point!
You can always brew a smaller amount to better fit your fermentor size. Just scale down proportionally.
You need to chill your wort to your yeast pitching temperature before you pour it in the fermentor/carboy. Don't pour hot wort in a glass carboy, it will crack.
Sorry I got ahead of myself but, but yes I know it wont be a full 5 gallons I was anticipating more around the 4ish mark so it would give me enough headspace in my carboy. and I would not boil grains or dump boiling water in glass. I know what im doing for the most part. Ive done plenty of extract brews and understand the basics of all grain. But ive never heard of boiling the hops separately from the WORT. I know it sounds like its going against the "rules," but does anybody know why? Chemically speaking? Thank you to the others that have replied already, so speedy! My next smallest pot that I own besides the 3.75gal is a mere 2qt. Until I get some bigger outdoor equipment.
Johnnyhitch1
Well-Known Member
Why not brew a 2.5gal batch??
Diluting Hoppy water with sweet syrup water don't sound good...although drinkable!
Diluting Hoppy water with sweet syrup water don't sound good...although drinkable!
I guess I didnt wanna do a 2.5gal batch because of all the extra headspace in the carboy. Maybe it wouldnt matter that much.. hmm. Or maybe I need to do more research on the partial technique..
1. You can boil hops in water, and make bitter, hoppy water (search hop teas) but to get good alpha acid utilization, you are still going to need to boil it for a significant amount of time.
2. Poly phenols in the hops bond with proteins in the wort and improve coagulation, giving you better hot and cold break and improving beer clarity. So, even if you still wanted to try your idea, you should add some hops to the wort boil.
If you don't want to do a small batch because of head space, do two. Production breweries do this all the time if their fermenters are bigger than their boil kettles. Brew one batch, cool, transfer and then pit h your yeast. You can add the next batch right on top, after it has cooled.
2. Poly phenols in the hops bond with proteins in the wort and improve coagulation, giving you better hot and cold break and improving beer clarity. So, even if you still wanted to try your idea, you should add some hops to the wort boil.
If you don't want to do a small batch because of head space, do two. Production breweries do this all the time if their fermenters are bigger than their boil kettles. Brew one batch, cool, transfer and then pit h your yeast. You can add the next batch right on top, after it has cooled.
There we go! Thats what im lookin for. Assuming you're correct, thats the kind of stuff I need to know. +1 BPS531
Now im thinkin again.. originally I was thinking that the bitter/aroma filled hop water would balance out the sweet wort in a way it normally does, now I guess I could bitter the wort but not do a finishing hop stage.. I could have 2 gallons of aromatic hop tea (boiled only for 15 min or so) in the fermenter and add the "bitter" wort to that. Haha Im more interested in the weirdness factor than anything.
reverendj1
Well-Known Member
Am I missing something here? Don't a lot of brewers do partial boils, where you boil only 1/2 or so and then top up with water in the fermenter? I don't have personal experience doing it, and I know it affects hop utilization, but I thought that's how most new brewers start out.
Also, if you want to do a full boil and just brew a smaller batch, don't worry about the headspace for primary fermentation. Even 2.5 gallons will produce enough CO2 to push out all the oxygen.
Also, if you want to do a full boil and just brew a smaller batch, don't worry about the headspace for primary fermentation. Even 2.5 gallons will produce enough CO2 to push out all the oxygen.
I guess my reasoning was instead of just topping up with plain old water, why not give it a purpose. That water is going to dilute the wort, why not dilute without the conviction of watering down your beer. Hop Tea Beer. I dunno. You say you know it affects hop utilization.. care to elaborate on that thought?
reverendj1
Well-Known Member
You can play around with Brewtoad, Brewtarget, BeerSmith or some other brewing software to see the effects a partial boil has on hop utilization. Just adjust the boil size.
