Anyone get arrested for brewing or mistaken identity?

downtown3641 · Mar 12, 2012

Most cops I've come across have been great. But, in my line of work, I've come across a number of officers who cannot differentiate between situations that require a show of force and those that don't. But, as I said, the majority of cops I've come across have been great and willing to work with us to properly resolve situations.

That said, it's the responsibility of regular citizens to critically analyze the performance of law enforcement officers to ensure that they are doing their jobs in a way that benefits the community. Yes. Some people will feel wronged when they aren't. But, anyone with any sort of critical thinking skills can see through that bull**** just like we can see through needless bravado.

Phunhog · Mar 12, 2012

scottland said:
Other than one or two people, everyone is missing the point that they had propane tanks stored inside their apartment. I'm sorry, but that's a bad idea.

Propane tanks go 'boom' in a fire. The fire department came in, did an inspection, and from the sounds of it, it was totally justified.

I know if I was a fireman, I wouldn't want to rush into a burning building if it had some LP tanks that were waiting to explode. That's how firemen die.

I am a professional firefighter. Storing LP tanks in your residence is a bad idea but we can't control your personal behavior. In this case it "might" be different since the tenant doesn't own the property. We can't knock on your door and conduct a fire safety inspection since you are not a public occupancy. When we go in houses on medical calls we see all sorts of fire hazards....blocked exits, hoarding, no smoke detectors, etc...We can suggest they make changes but we can't enforce it.

sudsmcgee · Mar 12, 2012

I have a lot of respect for good cops, but less than zero for the bad ones. And I really resent the fact if I am being mistreated by a bad cop in my state that I am not allowed to record the incident as evidence even though they are recording me. This situation makes it easy to hate cops in general if you ask me.

sudsmcgee · Mar 12, 2012

Phunhog said:
I am a professional firefighter. Storing LP tanks in your residence is a bad idea but we can't control your personal behavior. In this case it "might" be different since the tenant doesn't own the property. We can't knock on your door and conduct a fire safety inspection since you are not a public occupancy. When we go in houses on medical calls we see all sorts of fire hazards....blocked exits, hoarding, no smoke detectors, etc...We can suggest they make changes but we can't enforce it.

What about storing them in an attached garage. That's what I do, but I never thought about it as a problem.

Phunhog · Mar 12, 2012

When I go to a garage fire right away I am thinking LP tanks, gas tanks, paint cans, pesticides, and things like that. At least that is how my garage looks

LP tanks are designed to vent when under pressure to avoid an explosion, though I have seen it happen on brush fires. I am not thinking about LP tanks in somebody's living room though.....well at least not in most people's houses.

SittingDuck · Mar 12, 2012

rexbanner said:
Hmm, baseless? Maybe it's because like I said, most of us have had at least one negative experience with a cop.

Really? I'd love to hear all these negative experiences. I bet they are all, well, I was technically breaking the law, but it wasn't a big law, so the cop was out of line, or well, but I only had a little weed and the man was just hasslin me.

I have had several run-ons with the cops. I have my share of tickets, I've had cops stop by my college parties when we got out of hand, I've been arrested for a misdemeanor. I was never happy to see the police in those instances. I would probably say they were "negative experiences," but not one of them had to do with bad cops.

And you complain they didn't talk to the guy, but who's to say, from the info in this blog, that the landlord hadn't told the guy ten times not to store LP in his apartment? And even if they didn't, if the firemen come to investigate a public safety concern and the guy isn't home, what should they do? Come back randomly trying to catch him at home and hope nothing blows up in the meantime? Or hang around until he comes back? Sure hope nothing catches fire across town while they are waiting on him.

If the building caught fire, the tanks blew up, and some kids died, then the story comes out the firemen knew of the danger for months but just never caught the guy to chat, and so the firemen did nothing, how do you think that story gets reported? Do you think you might be posting a very different rant?

zeg · Mar 12, 2012

After following this thread, I think the basic behavior of the FD was quite reasonable. Apparently the LP and dead battery were code violations, so they're absolutely doing the right thing to correct the situation.

If the brewer has a legitimate gripe at all, it would be with the landlord. Unless he really thought there was an emergency situation---possible, but unlikely IMO---he should talk about his concerns with the tenant in person before entering the property, even if he legally has the right to do so. That's just common decency. If he did this and was blown off or ignored, then I'm on his side.

We all need to be responsible, safe brewers. That means storing flammable materials safely and taking proper precautions with brewing equipment.

sweetcell · Mar 12, 2012

Airborneguy said:
What exactly is this story anyway? A safety check is conducted with the landlord's permission (and possibly his urging since cops and firemen aren't psychics) because someone was accused of keeping propane tanks in an apartment building

from the OP's link:

"A couple of weeks ago local police and firefighters raided his place looking for evidence of an illegal drug making operation. He was not home to see them going through his things but it was very obvious that their primary focus was his beer room, where he keeps his brewing equipment."

so based on the original story, they did not raid for propane tanks. they were looking for a meth lab, and happened to find propane. obviously propane tanks in an apartment are a bad idea and i'm glad they were removed, but that sounds like a post-facto justification ("we came looking for a drug lab, but since there isn't one we'll settle for this tank").

if he happened to not have propane - and it was possible, since no one was expecting to find any in there ("cops and firemen aren't psychics") - this really would have looked bad on the raiding party. the coincidence of the propane was a very fortunate one.

this is a certain amount of "the ends do not justify the means" here, IMO.

rexbanner · Mar 12, 2012

SittingDuck said:
Really? I'd love to hear all these negative experiences. I bet they are all, well, I was technically breaking the law, but it wasn't a big law, so the cop was out of line, or well, but I only had a little weed and the man was just hasslin me.

I have had several run-ons with the cops. I have my share of tickets, I've had cops stop by my college parties when we got out of hand, I've been arrested for a misdemeanor. I was never happy to see the police in those instances. I would probably say they were "negative experiences," but not one of them had to do with bad cops.

And you complain they didn't talk to the guy, but who's to say, from the info in this blog, that the landlord hadn't told the guy ten times not to store LP in his apartment? And even if they didn't, if the firemen come to investigate a public safety concern and the guy isn't home, what should they do? Come back randomly trying to catch him at home and hope nothing blows up in the meantime? Or hang around until he comes back? Sure hope nothing catches fire across town while they are waiting on him.

If the building caught fire, the tanks blew up, and some kids died, then the story comes out the firemen knew of the danger for months but just never caught the guy to chat, and so the firemen did nothing, how do you think that story gets reported? Do you think you might be posting a very different rant?

Actually, no. When I said negative experiences, I didn't mean times I was breaking the law and was mad that I got caught.

Also, who's to say anything? This story could be 100% made up. At face value, I would say they mishandled the situation. Maybe there's more to it, maybe not. Somehow I doubt they tried talking to him.

Dan · Mar 12, 2012

zeg said:
After following this thread, I think the basic behavior of the FD was quite reasonable. Apparently the LP and dead battery were code violations, so they're absolutely doing the right thing to correct the situation.

If the brewer has a legitimate gripe at all, it would be with the landlord. Unless he really thought there was an emergency situation---possible, but unlikely IMO---he should talk about his concerns with the tenant in person before entering the property, even if he legally has the right to do so. That's just common decency. If he did this and was blown off or ignored, then I'm on his side.

We all need to be responsible, safe brewers. That means storing flammable materials safely and taking proper precautions with brewing equipment.

Very well said Sir. This in my opinion, which doesn't count for much is the best response in the other 86-88 threads written.

Airborneguy · Mar 13, 2012

rexbanner said:
Also, I wasn't aware that the general public has a negative perception of police, but if that's your view, ever wonder why that might be?

Because the level of proof required by the general public is usually little to none. go back to my first or second response and you'll see that I clearly acknowledge bad cops exist and should be dealt with, but simply hating every uniform "just because" isn't the intelligent way to approach that problem.

Airborneguy · Mar 13, 2012

sudsmcgee said:
And I really resent the fact if I am being mistreated by a bad cop in my state that I am not allowed to record the incident as evidence even though they are recording me. This situation makes it easy to hate cops in general if you ask me.

I wonder how many cops voted in the legislative session that passed the law forbidding you from videotaping them... Just another example of blame the cops for something that they didn't cause.

Airborneguy · Mar 13, 2012

sweetcell said:
from the OP's link:

Translation: AN ANONYMOUS BLOG...

sweetcell said:
"A couple of weeks ago local police and firefighters raided his place looking for evidence of an illegal drug making operation. He was not home to see them going through his things but it was very obvious that their primary focus was his beer room, where he keeps his brewing equipment."

Check out my bolding. If that is your required level of proof to make a decision, your life is certainly much easier than mine. You're that guy who always knows that the cop is heading to get coffee when he runs a red light in front of you, because it was very obvious.

Qhrumphf · Mar 13, 2012

I've had my share of bad experiences with cops while doing absolutely nothing wrong (been accused of stealing cars while WALKING down the street and detained for an hour while never being charged since there was nothing to charge me with, pulled over and accused of being a drug runner only to get a "warning" about my perfectly legal window tint, etc). I've had friends get much worse, attacked in their own home by someone plainclothed who never announced themselves as police and then charged with assaulting an officer when fighting back, another arrested and charged with firearms violations after legally purchasing and legally carrying a firearm in the trunk.

I find myself in a situation where I accept there are decent officers out there, and I've met a few, but in general I do not trust the police. Some corroborating evidence here would be ideal, but I find the story completely plausible. And depending on the local laws, I wonder if the landlord could legally consent to the search, and if not, wouldn't anything they found be inadmissible as evidence against the guy?

hoppymonkey · Mar 13, 2012

Airborneguy said:
I wonder how many cops voted in the legislative session that passed the law forbidding you from videotaping them... Just another example of blame the cops for something that they didn't cause.

That law was recently overturned by the Supreme court. We can now videotape cops anytime they are on duty. I reread that blog post and it seems many here are taking it far more seriously than than the writer did.

sweetcell · Mar 13, 2012

Airborneguy said:
You're that guy who always knows that the cop is heading to get coffee when he runs a red light in front of you, because it was very obvious.

actually, i'm not that person at all, but thanks for stereotyping me. goes a long way in backing up your opinions.

it was indeed very obvious that their primary focus was his beer room because that's the room they ransacked, removed items from, displaced carboys, etc. they didn't need to base "because it was obvious" on hunches and presuppositions.

you make a lot of good points. a few bad apples spoil the bunch but the public jumps on that one bad apple way too often. i'm with you that 99.9...% of cops are a good. this is obviously an emotional subject for you, don't let it crowd out your ability to see and accept other people's opinions.

uh, i think this is in order: :off:

back to the topic: yes, homebrewing can be confused with drug making.

unionrdr · Mar 13, 2012

At least we have some better tenant/landlord laws here in Ohio. I guess some bad things happened to my inlaws years ago with the landlord. Mom inlaw was an executive secratary,& looked it up. She gave him what fore in court,then gave us a copy of the laws when I married there daughter. It's surprising how much many landlords don't know about the law.
Many seemed to think at the time that just because they're the landlord,they can show up anytime & nose around. As long as we're contractually renting & paying said rent,it's as if it were our private property. They have to give 24 hours notice before coming in,& state there business as well. Whatever repairs you make to their property can legally be subtracted from the rent with recipts given.
So here it would be illegal for him/her to just show up,walk in,& have you busted for something they don't understand. As a renter here,you have nearly the same rights as a homeowner. I loved rubbing their faces in it when they get high handed. I took care of the property,since they own it. But not completely so while I'm paying for it. You must be given due course even as a renter.

Airborneguy · Mar 13, 2012

sweetcell said:
actually, i'm not that person at all, but thanks for stereotyping me. goes a long way in backing up your opinions.

I used your words, that's not stereotyping. There's no substance in that BLOG post at all. I'm surprised whenever anyone takes a story presented in this manner seriously.

I check out City-Data from time to time, and in the NYC forum, the cop bashing can get pretty bad. I have no problem ignoring it there because most of the posters on that forum come across as ignorant in other threads anyway. When it comes up on this forum, it surprises me though. I read 100 threads a day where people question technical minutiae and refuse to accept nearly scientific proof, but mention the cops and the information could come from a neighbor's friend's dog sitter's blog post and it's taken as gospel. Pretty sad.

jd3 · Mar 13, 2012

sweetcell said:
actually, i'm not that person at all, but thanks for stereotyping me. goes a long way in backing up your opinions.

it was indeed very obvious that their primary focus was his beer room because that's the room they ransacked, removed items from, displaced carboys, etc. they didn't need to base "because it was obvious" on hunches and presuppositions.

you make a lot of good points. a few bad apples spoil the bunch but the public jumps on that one bad apple way too often. i'm with you that 99.9...% of cops are a good. this is obviously an emotional subject for you, don't let it crowd out your ability to see and accept other people's opinions.

uh, i think this is in order:

back to the topic: yes, homebrewing can be confused with drug making.

They ransacked it? When?

It also happens to be the room that illegally stored LP tanks inside a god damn apartment building. Deeeedadeeee!

jd3 · Mar 13, 2012

unionrdr said:
At least we have some better tenant/landlord laws here in Ohio. I guess some bad things happened to my inlaws years ago with the landlord. Mom inlaw was an executive secratary,& looked it up. She gave him what fore in court,then gave us a copy of the laws when I married there daughter. It's surprising how much many landlords don't know about the law.
Many seemed to think at the time that just because they're the landlord,they can show up anytime & nose around. As long as we're contractually renting & paying said rent,it's as if it were our private property. They have to give 24 hours notice before coming in,& state there business as well. Whatever repairs you make to their property can legally be subtracted from the rent with recipts given.
So here it would be illegal for him/her to just show up,walk in,& have you busted for something they don't understand. As a renter here,you have nearly the same rights as a homeowner. I loved rubbing their faces in it when they get high handed. I took care of the property,since they own it. But not completely so while I'm paying for it. You must be given due course even as a renter.

But what people don't understand here is that NO one was "busted". Fire hazards that were ILLEGAL were removed.

jesus mary mother of god.

unionrdr · Mar 13, 2012

Noone has to be busted for anything by our laws to make some of the things landlords try to get away with here illegal. Renters here have nearly as many rights as owners. Too many slum lords I guess.

rhamilton · Mar 13, 2012

jd3 said:
But what people don't understand here is that NO one was "busted". Fire hazards that were ILLEGAL were removed.

jesus mary mother of god.

This story has a much different ending if there is a joint or other paraphernalia on the coffee table. The inspector removes the tanks, mentions to the police he saw drugs or smells something, narc brings a dog to your front door, he paws, warrant is issued, say hello to the judge. Bonus points if you are a registered gun owner or a gun was also seen in your apartment at the time as they'll bring in SWAT with a 4am forced entry since a (legal) gun + drugs instantly makes you Tony Montana. Best part! You have to pay for the door SWAT busts in.......

Many people experience this and it originates from these little 'inspections' when all the landlord had to do was tell the owner the fire code and give them an opportunity to comply on their own.

The whole situation would have been avoided with some communication between the apartment owners and the tenant.

Phunhog · Mar 13, 2012

jd3 said:
But what people don't understand here is that NO one was "busted". Fire hazards that were ILLEGAL were removed.

jesus mary mother of god.

Like I said in an earlier post I am a professional firefighter. I can guarantee you that we CAN NOT enter a house without explicit permission from the owner except in the case of an emergency. We can't enter your house without your permission because your neighbor called and told us that you are a hoarder and that the house is a fire hazard. Trust me we get these calls all the time from pissed off neighbors who want the house cleaned up claiming it is a fire hazard. Of course it is BUT it is still their house.
As a side note....that is why often time the cops will come with us on a 911 medical call. They can legally get inside a house without a search warrant. They can't open closets or drawers but if something is out in the open it is fair game.

neko · Mar 13, 2012

I know everyone near me so I have no worries about them thinking it's an outdoor meth lab.

One time the kettle was boiling away in the backyard and I heard a neighbor tell his wife "Mmmm! Smells like a brewery"

I'd say my neighbors know what's going on.

The_Dog_42 · Mar 13, 2012

rhamilton said:
This story has a much different ending if there is a joint or other paraphernalia on the coffee table.

So you're saying this story has a different ending if an illegal activity is perceived?...

ABG has made some of the best points here. There is no mention of cops doing anything.

The only thing I can add is if the cops or landlord suspected a meth lab and talked to the an actual drug making tenant about it, what is the first thing the tenant would do? My guess is "reform and become a productive member of society" is not at the top of the list.

sudsmcgee · Mar 13, 2012

Airborneguy said:
I wonder how many cops voted in the legislative session that passed the law forbidding you from videotaping them... Just another example of blame the cops for something that they didn't cause.

Are you familiar with Chicago politics?

sudsmcgee · Mar 13, 2012

hoppymonkey said:
That law was recently overturned by the Supreme court. We can now videotape cops anytime they are on duty. I reread that blog post and it seems many here are taking it far more seriously than than the writer did.

It is my understanding that the law still exists, although if you are arrested you can easily fight he charges.

Anyone get arrested for brewing or mistaken identity?

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