Stone Brewing - Double Bastard Clone

oswegan said:

I think I could brew it for $25, plus or minus two or three bucks.

2-Row = $1 per pound
Other grain = $1.50 per pound
Chinook = approx $0.81 per ounce shipped (hops direct)
SO-5 = $2.95 per packet

Add another $2.95 if I use a second package of dry yeast.

Just guessing here, but $65 is a high price to pay and so is $45 IMHO.

Click to expand...

Oh, no doubt that if you buy in bulk and order everything from the cheapest places that it'll be cheaper! Around these parts, we know how to get everything cheap!

I was just pointing out that for the type of beer you're getting, that $45 really isn't out of line with typical prices. It's definitely cheaper than the actual DB by 3-4x.

I mean, pretty much everywhere but hops direct and some other specialty places, hops are running $3/ounce. At 5-6 oz. for this brew, you're looking at ~$18 in hops at standard hop prices! Add in 18 lb of base grain, at $1.15 a pound, which is what I'm getting standard non-bulk, and you're at another $20. The couple pounds of C-120 will put you back ~$5, which brings you to right around $45!

Essentially, you'd be saving all of your money with the hops direct bulk pricing in your scheme. That's why hops direct rocks! You can buy a pound of chinook for the same price as 4.5oz from everywhere else.

So, pretty much everyone whom brews this that doesn't use hops direct will charge ya ~$45. Not really eye-popping to me at least. At AHS, you'd save on getting it shipped versus ordering it from a couple of places (hops direct, and a another place for everything else).

Even at $65-70 it is even less money compared to retail than an APA would be for the same batch size.
A 3 bedroom house costs more to build than a one bedroom.

oswegan said:

I think I could brew it for $25, plus or minus two or three bucks.

2-Row = $1 per pound
Other grain = $1.50 per pound
Chinook = approx $0.81 per ounce shipped (hops direct)
SO-5 = $2.95 per packet

Add another $2.95 if I use a second package of dry yeast.

Just guessing here, but $65 is a high price to pay and so is $45 IMHO.

Click to expand...

where have you ever seen a kit that is comparably priced to buying in bulk? No where does and they would be stupid to do so cause they wouldnt make any money. If you are buying in bulk you arent buying kits 95% of the time. Comparing bulk pricing to kit pricing is a ridiculous argument imo

Just finish brewing my version. Gotta love Friday night brewing! :rockin:

Imperial Bastard

16 lbs Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) 88.28 %
1 lbs Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) 5.52 %
10.0 oz Caraaroma (130.0 SRM) 3.45 %
8.0 oz Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) 2.76 %
0.50 oz Chinook [15.00 %] (90 min) (Mash Hop) 6.3 IBU
0.50 oz Chinook [15.00 %] (90 min) (FWH) 18.8 IBU
0.75 oz Warrior [16.70 %] (60 min) 42.9 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [15.00 %] (20 min) 16.9 IBU
1.00 oz Nugget [14.00 %] (20 min) 15.8 IBU
1.50 oz Nugget [14.00 %] (Steep 30 min at FO)
0.50 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (Steep 30 min at FO)
0.25 oz Columbus [15.80 %] (Steep 30 min at FO)
1.00 tsp Wyeast Yeast Nutrient (Boil 10.0 min) Misc
2 Pkgs SafAle American Ale (DCL Yeast #S-05)

Poobah, tell me more about "mash hop" and "first wort hop". Hate to sound too much like a noobie.

Mash hops are added to the mash. Give a little flavor and not much if any bittering. First wort hops are added to the boil kettle just before sparge. They give a milder bittering and some flavor.

Hey just wondering if anyone knows if there's a good extract recipe for this?

Does anyone else notice a mead character in Double Bastard? I had one the other day, and got a distinct fermented honey flavor. Mead was fresh on my palate from drinking the night before, so it might have just been in my head. But I swear I tasted some honey in there. Am I the only one?

Ok guys. I ordered the Austin Homebrewing Double Bastard kit. I'm gonna make it precisely according to the directions.

The best thing ever happened today as well. I live in a state that doesn't get Stone brews, and I understand that the double bastard only comes out in November, yet somehow, by some miracle, a friend came in this afternoon from out of town and brought me one. This is better than xmas.

SO....I'm gonna save that bomber till the clone kit is ready to drink and do a side-by-side comparison and see how it stacks up.

I'm pretty excited about this one. Double Bastard is one of those beers that I would probably drink even if I got liver cancer.


(on another note I also got the Great Divide Yeti clone kit from them as well, I might do a side by side on that one too).

Wish me luck!

Brett3rThanU said:

Mine used all Chinook and was dead on.

Click to expand...

I can confirm that AB/DB uses all Chinook from sources which are very reliable. (I was @ the Stone brewery this past weekend) I saw some recipes using 2-3 different types of hop additions which may still taste good, but may just be making the bill higher.

I plan on getting an AB tribute going this week! I am using bits an pieces of the recipes listed, but I will be using all Chinook for the hops. The yeast Stone uses is proprietary so I will have to settle for the closest thing I can find. There was no one who could give permission the day I tried to score some of their yeast sludge :-(

The kit I got uses all chinook.

I also just did a brewer's best russian imperial stout, but added 3lbs of extract to it, 1oz of chinook at 30 mins and dry hopped it on another oz for about 2 weeks.

So I brewed this beer, (the ahs extract kit) the other day.

about 24 hours after I pitched the yeast, (a 2 pint starter), the lid to my bucket looked like it was about to blast off the top. Like the airlock was moving so fast, but the pressure couldn't get out. The lid was actually stretched upward in the center to form a dome. Looked like a balloon about to pop.

I think it's safe to say I have some active fermentation going on. So far the color and the smell are good.

I cracked open the lid a bit and it released a ton of air pressure, then I closed it back and put a hose in the grommet and ran it to a growler w/ sanitizer.

Pretty excited so far.

Just bumping this thread because I racked this one over to a secondary yesterday just to make sure it's nice and cleared up, and I'll be bottling it probably Monday. It smelled amazing just in the fermenter, like raisins and hops and almost syrupy like molasses or something, (the smell not the consistency). Can't wait to so the side by side comparison.

Looking forward to the report back

Finally bottled this one last night. Now it's countdown to carbonation. Pretty exciting stuff.

Drank two. Still a bit green but holding some carbonation at this point. Definitely a really great beer. I've only had the double bastard a few times here and there so it's hard to do a side by side right now. I am holding one bomber of the 2011 release. Once this brew is well conditioned, I'll do a side by side and report back on the accuracy of the AHS kit, but for now I will say that it's delicious and I will be drinking lots of it.

Didn't "Can you Brew It" pretty much confirm that AB is only Pale malt, Special B and Chinook hops? The closest yeast to Stone's proprietary yeast is Wyeast London ESB 1968, which I have heard from several sources.

The Double Bastard kit I got was 1 kind of grain and 1 kind of hops.

Daparish said:

Didn't "Can you Brew It" pretty much confirm that AB is only Pale malt, Special B and Chinook hops? The closest yeast to Stone's proprietary yeast is Wyeast London ESB 1968, which I have heard from several sources.

Click to expand...

Still seems like a bit of a debate, but darned close as a verdict from all I can see at BrewNetwork. I've heard from a few people Stone is using C150L though, and plan to try a side by side of that and the special B. Unfortunately, I don't even have a pot atm. Have to make it to decide really IMO

The one I did was an extract kit w/ the grains for steeping. All the grains were crystal 120L and the extract was some liquid, some dry, all amber if that helps. I tried another one night before last and it's coming along really nicely. I think by the time it's fully carbed and in bottles for maybe 2 months it should be ready for a side by side test. Regardless of how it does, I think it's gonna be a good beer. I have to wonder if since they do a different release every year if the recipe would change. That might make it hard if you were trying to clone a specific year, but easier if you just wanted a big delicious beer in the range of the double bastard. Gravity readings indicated that my batch should be about 11.2% abv, and the 2010 release I'm sitting on is at 11.2 as well, so I'm thinking that's a good sign. Exciting stuff people. I can't wait to start chugging these!

So what has been the verdict on this clone? Thoughts?? I brewed an AB clone twice now that has been spot on (dare I say maybe even better )

Anyway, would like to brew this in the coming week. Maybe go with C150 instead of the 120...?

How have the different variations turned out so far for those who have brewed it?

I get to break in my Monster Mill with my next batch as well!

Yeah, would love a recipe for this one. I think DB is Stone's best beer.

FWIW, I met Greg Koch at a tasting and asked him about this beer. I asked if it was true that DB is the same ingredients as AB but "bumped up and rearranged a little."

He thought for a second and said "Nah, there's some other stuff in there"

Not exactly a recipe from Greg but it left me with the impression that the base is similar to AB but with one or two tweaks to the grain bill and possbily hops.

There is definitely a sweeter finish with the DB compared to AB. ABV% is obviously higher too.

I will have to do a side by side with the 2 when I can - if I'm not lucky enough to find some DB still in stock, it will have to wait until November tho

Bump-

I'd like to get a DB clone, but this thread is a tough one to follow- Could someone post a recipe that they're happy with?

Also - any thoughts on using Falconer's Flight hops instead of Chinook?

Sam

I think the grain bill is the same, 2 row with c150 to bump the gravity up. I plan on brewing this and throwing some Munich possibly melanoidin to increase the complexity and maltiness a little. I think the big difference is the hops. I don't think DB is all Chinook. I could be wrong but I think it might have some centennial in there.

I have taken the recipe that I have found here, and substituted the hops for Falconer's Flight. This was my resulting recipe:

Type : BIAB/Partial Mash, 90 minutes 150 degrees F
2 lbs Crystal 120L
10 lbs Maris Otter
2 Lbs Amber DME
1.5 oz Falconer's Flight hops - 90 minutes
1.5 oz Falconer's Flight hops - 60 minutes
1.5 oz Falconer's Flight hops - 15 minutes
1.5 oz Falconer's Flight hops - 5 minutes
1.5 oz Falconer's Flight hops - DH- 7 days
2 L starter WLP007 Dry English Ale
1 tsp Irish Moss

The results, comparing to a fresh bottle of Double Bastard:
The color is spot-on. I don't think that could be done better. The taste, however, isn't close. Double Bastard has a biscuit-flavor that is completely absent from my recipe. Also (likely to no surprise) my recipe is much sweeter, and much hopper. While My recipe isn't bad, it isn't a clone.

Any thoughts about what ingredient(s) supply that 'biscuit' quality that I taste in the real DB?

Hey, sam1 also interested in making a decent clone of the DB here.

Could you swap some Munich or Vienna malt for the Maris Otter or amber DME to get some of the biscuit flavors in the mix?

Good luck keep us posted!

If your after biscuit flavor victory or biscuit malt would get you there. I don't think I have had a bottle this year but they switch up the recipes a bit on all of their seasonals. I don't remember a real biscuit character from it but it has been a while. I just remember it being pretty boozy and piney.

After drinking this for a few months, it has been a great beer, but I would never mistake it for Double bastard. I think that the inclusion of the biscuit malt may be important- though at first I was wondering of perhaps a longer (or hotter) mash might help.

I don't know the flavor profile of Munich or Vienna to know if that would get to the taste that I get in the real thing.

zac - did you ever dig-up that recipe?

Anyone else have updates?