Why the Heck won't my Beer Clear?!

I am at a loss. I feel like I've tried everything. Polyclar is the only thing that's worked for me so far, but I don't want to shell out money for clarity when I know it's possible without it.
Example, my batch of RIPA: 4 weeks in the primary, 5 days in secondary with dry hops, 4.5 weeks in tertiary (to get it off the hops), kegged and kept at 34 deg F for one week. And it's still murky as all heck.
I use Irish Moss in nearly every batch, and I'm still getting nothing.
Is it something in my technique I might b overlooking? Any help would be greatly appreciated since I do want to start submitting brews to competitions. And I just can't do that with murky beer.
Thanks.

I've found that, with hoppy beers, you will be hard-pressed to get perfect clarity. It doesn't surprise me that it's not clearing after being dry-hopped. I have no idea what the science is behind it, but when I make big IIPA's, etc., they never clear completely.

If it's not a big hoppy beer, then all I can suggest is cold-crashing, and also paying attention to your yeast strains, because they all have different flocculation properties. Wyeast 1968, for instance, tends to produce crystal clear beer several days after fermentation is done. WLP570, on the other hand, takes months to clear completely.

For the RIPA I use Pacman. But I also have an Ordinary Bitter on tap, which I did use Poluclar on, and it's also murky. I left the polyclar in for 5 days instead of the recommended 10, but I also do crash all my brews once in the keg.

The IPA that I have currently on tap that was dry-hopped with 3 oz of hops is crystal clear. In fact, it is the clearest beer I have ever made. Almost every time I pour a pint I marvel in the clarity. I don't really know what I did right, but something happened! It also cooincidently has the best "lace" of any beer that I have done. This is at least my 10th batch of this recipe too.

The one thing that I did that I did not do before was to dry hop in the keg. Then I racked to another keg before tapping. Perhaps the keg dry hopping made sure that not a speck of sunlight or air hit the beer and that made all the difference? I don't know but I am doing the exact same with this batch of IPA and I'll let you know when I tap it in a couple of weeks.

All the stars lined up on this one I guess!

I had this problem too when I started AG. I used Irish moss, increased aging time, etc. to no avail. I have just one word for you...WHIRLFLOC! The first time I used a whirlfloc tablet instead of irish moss I got incredible clarity. It's been like that ever since and I'll never go back...plus it's cheap.

illinibrew04 said:

I had this problem too when I started AG. I used Irish moss, increased aging time, etc. to no avail. I have just one word for you...WHIRLFLOC! The first time I used a whirlfloc tablet instead of irish moss I got incredible clarity. It's been like that ever since and I'll never go back...plus it's cheap.

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I'll second whirlfloc. I used to use irish moss and then switched to whirlfloc, mostly for ease of use (no need to measure or rehydrate).

When I switched I noticed my beers were clearing up a lot better.

I haven't had to try it, but you can always try gelatin in the keg

I made a William's Triple Hop IPA and even dry hopped in the corny keg and it came out very clear - so I kinda question the idea hops cause clarity issues. Also - I just fermented in the primary for 3 weeks - not secondary. The yeast that came with it was Wyeast 1056 American Ale smack pack liquid yeast (not sure if that makes any difference).

DD2000GT said:

I made a William's Triple Hop IPA and even dry hopped in the corny keg and it came out very clear - so I kinda question the idea hops cause clarity issues. Also - I just fermented in the primary for 3 weeks - not secondary. The yeast that came with it was Wyeast 1056 American Ale smack pack liquid yeast (not sure if that makes any difference).

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I've often wondered the same thing. I speculate that the extra particles in the beer from the hops stick to yeast and other particles and make everything drop out quicker

illinibrew04 said:

I had this problem too when I started AG. I used Irish moss, increased aging time, etc. to no avail. I have just one word for you...WHIRLFLOC! The first time I used a whirlfloc tablet instead of irish moss I got incredible clarity. It's been like that ever since and I'll never go back...plus it's cheap.

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Word

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I use Whirlfloc and gelatin. The cold break with Whirlfloc is sooo much better than with irish moss. As for the gelatin I just bought the plain gelatin at the grocery and used a tablespoon dissolved in boiled water that you let sit for a few minutes to cool down to carboy temps. I gently stir it in and give it 7-10 days and the beer looks great. For other ideas I went to 6 Tips for Crystal Clear Home Brewed Beer | Home Brewing Beer Blog by BeerSmith and Fining Agents - Improving Beer Clarity | Home Brewing Beer Blog by BeerSmith

BTW this is w/ bottling so I would think kegging would be even better.

When you use whirlfloc, do you have to siphon your wort out of your brew kettle?

As a cheaper solution, you could try using egg whites (like when making consomme or clarifying maple syrup).

You can choose a more flocculant yeast. If you're all grain, I hear that proper recirculating can help too. But it sounds like your aging times are so long this shouldn't matter.

Jack said:

When you use whirlfloc, do you have to siphon your wort out of your brew kettle?

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You can siphon or pour - whichever you prefer. The Whirlfloc tablet dissolves after a few second and becomes integrated into the wort.

OP: I use Whirlfloc & time. Occasionally I will cold crash and use gelatin if the previous two aren't enough by themselves.

OP:

Is the "R" in your RIPA for rye? That could be a potential source of haze as well -- rye is fairly high in proteins, and can lead to haze. The rye pale I brew at around 20% rye takes weeks to clear after kegging if I don't use a protein rest.

Also, are you getting complete conversion during the saccharification rest?

jds said:

OP:

Is the "R" in your RIPA for rye? That could be a potential source of haze as well -- rye is fairly high in proteins, and can lead to haze. The rye pale I brew at around 20% rye takes weeks to clear after kegging if I don't use a protein rest.

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Good call! I completely forgot about rye contributing to haze, and I did not use a protein rest.

It sounds like I need to try out some Whirflock tabs. Thanks, HBT!

illinibrew04 said:

I had this problem too when I started AG. I used Irish moss, increased aging time, etc. to no avail. I have just one word for you...WHIRLFLOC! The first time I used a whirlfloc tablet instead of irish moss I got incredible clarity. It's been like that ever since and I'll never go back...plus it's cheap.

Click to expand...

I swear by whirlfloc- but don't forget how important a good hot break and cold break are to clarity. The whirlfloc works well if you get a really nice cold break.

To add another thought to what everyone else has said, how is your water quality? I have read (http://www.howtobrew.com/section3/chapter15-1.html) that Calcium is helpful in clarity of the beer, so it might be something worth exploring as well.

Man, one week at 34 is nothing if you are looking for brilliantly clear beer. Some guys might get lucky with it, but don't count on it. Definitely try Whirlfloc, and if that's not quick enough for you, look into gelatin. Gelatin is just cheaper than all get-out, so you won't feel it in your pocket on a per-batch basis.

And, yep, that rye will contribute quite a bit to haze. My rye beer (Argentine Gold) takes more than three months to become brilliant, if it lasts that long. I actually think it's nicer before it clears, since it's so pale.


TL

jacksonbrown said:

Good call! I completely forgot about rye contributing to haze, and I did not use a protein rest.

It sounds like I need to try out some Whirflock tabs. Thanks, HBT!

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I just switched from Irish Moss to Whirlfloc on Sunday. The CAP I was brewing was brilliantly clear in the kettle after chilling and whirlpooling.

Unfortunately, I didn't have any leaf hops in the kettle (which make a nice filter bed), so I sucked a lot of break and hops into the fermenter while draining. C'est la vie -- it's a lager, so there will be plenty of time to settle the break out. It's actually settling very nicely in the fermenter.

jds said:

I just switched from Irish Moss to Whirlfloc on Sunday. The CAP I was brewing was brilliantly clear in the kettle after chilling and whirlpooling.

Unfortunately, I didn't have any leaf hops in the kettle (which make a nice filter bed), so I sucked a lot of break and hops into the fermenter while draining. C'est la vie -- it's a lager, so there will be plenty of time to settle the break out. It's actually settling very nicely in the fermenter.

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Didn't mention on my last brew I also used a paint strainter bag in my bottling bucket. (I use it between my brew pot and my carboy to measure in case I need to top it off as well as additional aeration.) When I pulled the strainer bag out of the bucket I had a double handful of coldbreak material in the sack that I kept out of my primary. May help significantly w/ a Rye Ale b/c of the suspended proteins.

YooperBrew said:

but don't forget how important a good hot break and cold break are to clarity

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How can I affect those?

Gelatin is out because my wife is a vegan. Water for this particular brew was distilled bottled water with brewing salts added to achieve London style levels.

How can I affect those?

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Boil as hard and cool as rapidly as you can manage.

jacksonbrown said:

How can I affect those?

Gelatin is out because my wife is a vegan. Water for this particular brew was distilled bottled water with brewing salts added to achieve London style levels.

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Isinglass and Super Kleer (chitosan) are out then, too.

Irish moss/whirlfloc during the boil, boil vigorously, cool as quickly as possible, let it sit in the primary, rack carefully to secondary, let it sit, crash cool, let it sit.

SumnerH said:

Irish moss/whirlfloc during the boil, boil vigorously, cool as quickly as possible, let it sit in the primary, rack carefully to secondary, let it sit, crash cool, let it sit.

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Aside from the whirflock, that's pretty much my rutine. I get about 18% boil off in an hour. I bring the kettle downstairs right away and plop in the IC, stirring it gently for the first 5 min to get the heat circulating, then coming back every few min to do the same.
I will try Whirflock and see how that works.

jacksonbrown said:

Aside from the whirflock, that's pretty much my rutine. I get about 18% boil off in an hour. I bring the kettle downstairs right away and plop in the IC, stirring it gently for the first 5 min to get the heat circulating, then coming back every few min to do the same.
I will try Whirflock and see how that works.

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It's a damn funky thing to try, but with your IC, stir against the flow of water, and occasionally pump your IC up and down in the wort. I do this and instantly the temperature of the IC outflow skyrockets and I drop 3-4 degrees in a couple seconds in the wort.

Literally, you should be down to room temperatures in about 15-20 minutes for a really, really good cold break.

Most of my beer isn't brilliantly clean, but I do bottle, and usually once it chills it gets a little bit hazy, but I don't really mind much. Still, maybe one batch in three I can get a batch where the gods smile on me and I get crystal clarity in a few weeks.

I was going to ask this question as well. I have what I believe to be a stable, repeatable brewing process from end to end. I now have in secondary, my third batch of Hobgoblin. (Thanks Orfy!) This batch has been in cool (55F not cold) crash secondary for 2 weeks and is still murky as hell. I think, I'm going to go the gelatin route which has previously given me great results for beers I've kegged.

The thing that was bugging me was that, as I mentioned earlier, this was the third brew of the same recipe and process. Or was it? I don't want to bad mouth the product until I do more test runs, but I tried Five Star Super Moss in this batch instead of my usual Whirfloc at the end of boil.

Anyone else done a back to back comparison of these products?