OP
OP
yes, you have the right idea...increasing the concentration of the wort (more sugars, smaller volume) decreases hop utilization. beersmith can help determine how this will affect the IBUs.
Easy Partial Mash Brewing (with pics)
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yes, you have the right idea...increasing the concentration of the wort (more sugars, smaller volume) decreases hop utilization. beersmith can help determine how this will affect the IBUs.
OP
OP
you want the sparge temp (mash temp AFTER grains have been moved) to be at 170°F or less. i usually end up in the high 160s with this method, which works fine.
i usually heat up the water about 20-30 minutes before i sparge so it's read to go when my mash is done. then i simply move the grains to the new pot and stir, then let sit for about 10 minutes. not sure what you mean by the 30-60 mins of sparging.
OP
OP
rtockst
Well-Known Member
Thanks DB! Is there any difference between a nylon hop bag and a nylon grain bag besides the size and maybe course/fine?
OP
OP
they come in different brands/grades/quality, but no...it shouldn't matter.
Thanks for this post - brewing this weekend and this is really going to help me improve my process. I'm new to home brewing - did 2 Extracts then jumped into mini-mash for the past 4 batches. I have a couple questions I hope you (or anyone) could help me with
I really like your idea of tea bagging for the sparge. Up to now I have been using a ladel and I just don't feel entirely effective with it. But for your approach I'll have to buy another brew kettle. In the future I would like to get into All Grain, so I would love to buy a brew kettle that would work for that as well as my mini's right now. Any suggestions?
I ordered the AHS Irish Red Mini-Mash kit for this weekend and this is what I know about the grain amounts right now: Mini Mash: 5 lbs. Liquid Malt Extract, 2.5 lbs. Base Grains, 1 lb. Specialty Grains.
I think they recommend mashing with 2.5 gallons of water and then sparging with significantly less per pound of grain (sorry don't remember exactly as I don't have my old recipe from them with me. But it sounds like you might recommend mashing in 1.4 Gallons (1.6 Quarts * 3.5lbs grain) and then sparging in 2.5 gallons for the partial boil?
I really like your idea of tea bagging for the sparge. Up to now I have been using a ladel and I just don't feel entirely effective with it. But for your approach I'll have to buy another brew kettle. In the future I would like to get into All Grain, so I would love to buy a brew kettle that would work for that as well as my mini's right now. Any suggestions?
I ordered the AHS Irish Red Mini-Mash kit for this weekend and this is what I know about the grain amounts right now: Mini Mash: 5 lbs. Liquid Malt Extract, 2.5 lbs. Base Grains, 1 lb. Specialty Grains.
I think they recommend mashing with 2.5 gallons of water and then sparging with significantly less per pound of grain (sorry don't remember exactly as I don't have my old recipe from them with me. But it sounds like you might recommend mashing in 1.4 Gallons (1.6 Quarts * 3.5lbs grain) and then sparging in 2.5 gallons for the partial boil?
OP
OP
I would get at least a 32 quart (8 gallon) pot. that's what i use for most of my 5 gallon all-grain batches, even with the tea-bag method. it's still pretty close when you're starting with 6.5-7 gallons pre-boil, but as long as i keep an eye on it, i rarely have boil-overs.
yep, you got it. their recommendation of 2.5 gallons of water would give you a very thin mash...that's like 3 quarts/lb. i would go no higher than 1.75 gallons (2 qt/lb), but even a single gallon would work.
remember also, that if you have a smaller pot for a small mash it actually works better to retain heat. when i do all-grain in my 5 gallon pot, it goes almost to the brim, leaving only enough room to stir and pull out the bag. i have yet to lose a single degree when it is this full.
i use any amount of water i'd like for the sparge...as much as i want to get up to the volume for pre-boil. remember that your extract will add volume as well.
have fun!
I would get at least a 32 quart (8 gallon) pot. that's what i use for most of my 5 gallon all-grain batches, even with the tea-bag method. it's still pretty close when you're starting with 6.5-7 gallons pre-boil, but as long as i keep an eye on it, i rarely have boil-overs.
yep, you got it. their recommendation of 2.5 gallons of water would give you a very thin mash...that's like 3 quarts/lb. i would go no higher than 1.75 gallons (2 qt/lb), but even a single gallon would work.
remember also, that if you have a smaller pot for a small mash it actually works better to retain heat. when i do all-grain in my 5 gallon pot, it goes almost to the brim, leaving only enough room to stir and pull out the bag. i have yet to lose a single degree when it is this full.
i use any amount of water i'd like for the sparge...as much as i want to get up to the volume for pre-boil. remember that your extract will add volume as well.
have fun!
Awesome! Thanks Deathbrewer! Can't wait to get this Irish Red and try everything out!
nijiaturtles
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Nice Partial Mash Info!
You said you make 2.5 all grain beer in the same manner. How would the process differ with all-grain? I'm interested in giving that a shot.
You said you make 2.5 all grain beer in the same manner. How would the process differ with all-grain? I'm interested in giving that a shot.
OP
OP
you just use more water and more grain. i use about 3-3.5 gallons of water for 10 lbs of grain in a 5 gallon pot for the mash. that allows very little headspace, which helps maintain heat. i had a two hour mash a couple of weeks ago that didn't lose a single degree!
then i use about 3-5 gallons sparge...i'll use a smaller amount of my stovetop and a larger amount on my burner, just because i can't get a 6.5 gallon boil going on my stovetop. i get a little less efficiency in my kitchen, but not a huge difference.
and then, no extract required! other than that, it's the same gig!
then i use about 3-5 gallons sparge...i'll use a smaller amount of my stovetop and a larger amount on my burner, just because i can't get a 6.5 gallon boil going on my stovetop. i get a little less efficiency in my kitchen, but not a huge difference.
and then, no extract required! other than that, it's the same gig!
LakeErieBrew
Well-Known Member
I just did my very first batch of beer. I used your method, Deathbrewer. I'm doing a 2.5 gallon batch since it's my first try. Thanks for the awesome tutorial!
Here's the recipe I came up with:
2 lbs. Pale Malt - Golden Promise England 2 Row 1.7-2.0 Lovibond
2 lbs. Pale Malt - Schreier American 2 Row 2.0 Lovibond
1 lb. Amber Dry Extract
2 oz. Argentine Cascade Pellet hops 3.2% AA- 60 mins boil
Wyeast 1056 American Ale
I mashed about 2 lbs of grain at a time in 1 gallon of water since I didn't have two large pots. Mash was about 150*F. I sparged at about 170*F with 2 gallons of water in my large pot. After I combined the contents of each pot and got the boil going, I added the dry malt extract and hops.
Cheers!
Here's the recipe I came up with:
2 lbs. Pale Malt - Golden Promise England 2 Row 1.7-2.0 Lovibond
2 lbs. Pale Malt - Schreier American 2 Row 2.0 Lovibond
1 lb. Amber Dry Extract
2 oz. Argentine Cascade Pellet hops 3.2% AA- 60 mins boil
Wyeast 1056 American Ale
I mashed about 2 lbs of grain at a time in 1 gallon of water since I didn't have two large pots. Mash was about 150*F. I sparged at about 170*F with 2 gallons of water in my large pot. After I combined the contents of each pot and got the boil going, I added the dry malt extract and hops.
Cheers!
OP
OP
looks like a wonderfully simple recipe...shoot, nearly all-grain with only 1 lb of extract! for your first brew, even. cheers to that!
did you just do one mash after the other? that's why this method is awesome, you can improvise with whatever equipment you have!
did you just do one mash after the other? that's why this method is awesome, you can improvise with whatever equipment you have!
LakeErieBrew
Well-Known Member
Exactly, I mashed 2 lbs of grain, then moved it into the sparge pot. After that, I started mashing the other 2 lbs of grain.
BlackCoffeeandBourbon
Well-Known Member
I am in the middle of my second mini mash using your method. The pictorial rocked by the way. Thanks for your hard work!
OP
OP
well, this has certainly been a success. i'm glad to see it's helped out so many! tonight i'm starting a new thread after i finish my banana bread ale:
Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)
Stovetop All-Grain Brewing (with pics)
BlackCoffeeandBourbon
Well-Known Member
You can all grain brew on a stove top? No need for a propane burner? I am in.
Bigger Pots + Bigger Bag = All Grain with the same methods. I do it when I'm lazy and have done mashes with 12lbs of grain with two 32qt SS pots.
Just used your technique to do my AHS Irish Red Mini mash kit!
Learned...I need a bigger pot to sparge properly like you. I wound up using a smaller pot and ladeling the sparge water until there was enough room in the pot to do the tea bag - seemed to work just fine.
Everything went super smoothly though! Thanks Deathbrewer! I'll be getting a bigger pot (hopefully for christmas) and that will make it so smooth. I'll probably get a big enough pot to go all grain.
Learned...I need a bigger pot to sparge properly like you. I wound up using a smaller pot and ladeling the sparge water until there was enough room in the pot to do the tea bag - seemed to work just fine.
Everything went super smoothly though! Thanks Deathbrewer! I'll be getting a bigger pot (hopefully for christmas) and that will make it so smooth. I'll probably get a big enough pot to go all grain.
jcole
Well-Known Member
Question for DeathBrewer and others successfully using this method:
When doing a partial mash using this method, what kind of mash efficiency are you getting?
All of the partial mash recipes from my LHBS are created with enough extract so that the specialty grains only have to be steeped, but not mashed.
I made the 'mistake' a couple of batches back of mashing the specialty grains in such a recipe and came out with too high of a target OG. It kind of threw my recipe off from there, but ended up being a drinkable beer.
On the other hand, I've been experimenting with some custom PM recipes set up in BeerSmith and they have been a little on the light body side lacking some mouth feel.
So, I'm trying to find a nice balance between getting the most from the grains in terms of flavor etc. and brewing true to the recipe, style, and ABV.
Thoughts?
When doing a partial mash using this method, what kind of mash efficiency are you getting?
All of the partial mash recipes from my LHBS are created with enough extract so that the specialty grains only have to be steeped, but not mashed.
I made the 'mistake' a couple of batches back of mashing the specialty grains in such a recipe and came out with too high of a target OG. It kind of threw my recipe off from there, but ended up being a drinkable beer.
On the other hand, I've been experimenting with some custom PM recipes set up in BeerSmith and they have been a little on the light body side lacking some mouth feel.
So, I'm trying to find a nice balance between getting the most from the grains in terms of flavor etc. and brewing true to the recipe, style, and ABV.
Thoughts?
OP
OP
generally 70%+...i can easily get 75% if i take my time, hit my temps, and use enough water.
steeping is entirely different than mashing. specialty grains cannot be "mashed" without the presence of base malts. What you are buying are probably "extract with steeping grains" recipes.
didn't account for your base malt? it's hard to screw up beer, isn't it?
are you using this method? give me an example of one of your recipes and i could maybe help out.
consistency is key, it's hard to make a beer to style if you don't know what your efficiency is going to be. get your method locked down.
again, let me know if you would like any recipe help. i really enjoy recipe formulation and i've gotten fairly good at it...plus i use lots of references and understand what certain grains impart. experimentation with SIMPLE RECIPES is key.
First, DB, you are doing a great service to beginners like me. Inspired by this thread, I ordered my first partial mash kit (Hefeweizen) from Austin Homebrew. I was surprised (disappointed?) that the kit came with only 2lbs of grain. Was expecting 5-6 lbs.
I would like to get your take on my planned procedure. My main concern is my kettles. I've got a 4gal, 3gal, and 2gal.
I had planned on mashing in my 3 gal kettle with 2.5 quarts of water (using your suggestion of 1.25 quarts per pound of grain). Does this sound about right? This should leave me with about 1.5 quarts of wort after the 60 minute sparge, right?
Then, I would sparge in my 4 gal kettle with 6 quarts of water. After I add my 1.5 quarts of wort from the mash, I should have about 7.5 quarts of wort. Will this be enough room in my kettle for the liquid extract?
Thanks a ton in advance. I'm trying your all grain method next!!!
I would like to get your take on my planned procedure. My main concern is my kettles. I've got a 4gal, 3gal, and 2gal.
I had planned on mashing in my 3 gal kettle with 2.5 quarts of water (using your suggestion of 1.25 quarts per pound of grain). Does this sound about right? This should leave me with about 1.5 quarts of wort after the 60 minute sparge, right?
Then, I would sparge in my 4 gal kettle with 6 quarts of water. After I add my 1.5 quarts of wort from the mash, I should have about 7.5 quarts of wort. Will this be enough room in my kettle for the liquid extract?
Thanks a ton in advance. I'm trying your all grain method next!!!
OP
OP
i would use the 2 gallon kettle for your mash, assuming you have a lid for it. you'll have less headspace, which will help maintain temp.
when you say 60 minute "sparge" i'm assuming you mean "mash"...sparge should only be about 10 minutes.
The rest sounds fine...there should still be about a gallon of room left. be sure to stir that extract well to add and while you're bringing to a boil...it will want to carmelize even more with that small amount of water.
let me know how it goes!
when you say 60 minute "sparge" i'm assuming you mean "mash"...sparge should only be about 10 minutes.
The rest sounds fine...there should still be about a gallon of room left. be sure to stir that extract well to add and while you're bringing to a boil...it will want to carmelize even more with that small amount of water.
let me know how it goes!
Yes, sorry, I meant 60 minute mash. Thanks very much QUICK for the advice.
One last question...I was thinking of using a "late extract" addition. Will the post-sparge wort be okay to utilize the hops without the extract? Can I withhold all of the extract until close to the end of my boil?
One last question...I was thinking of using a "late extract" addition. Will the post-sparge wort be okay to utilize the hops without the extract? Can I withhold all of the extract until close to the end of my boil?
OP
OP
you'll probably have to cut down the hops.
what are your hops Alpha Acid content? i'm assuming you just have hops for bittering or are there flavor and aroma hops?
what are your hops Alpha Acid content? i'm assuming you just have hops for bittering or are there flavor and aroma hops?
jcole
Well-Known Member
Ok, thanks. I'll start with assuming 70%.
Yeah, I think you're right. The recipe kits that I have been getting were from Austin Home Brew (as the poster above also mentioned). As far as I know, the grains provided are really for steeping.
didn't account for your base malt? it's hard to screw up beer, isn't it?
Yep. The OG was through the roof after I spent significant time mashing the steeping grains provided in the kit. I'm still trying to lock down a good method for me and experimenting with recipes.
I used it on my last brew of Sterling Gold and came much closer to my target OG and FG.
again, let me know if you would like any recipe help. i really enjoy recipe formulation and i've gotten fairly good at it...plus i use lots of references and understand what certain grains impart. experimentation with SIMPLE RECIPES is key.
Thanks DM. I really appreciate that. My next two brews are a second attempt at a custom clone recipe for a Scottish Pale Ale called Deuchars. On my first attempt I missed the OG, getting about 1.030 instead of the expected 1.042. I think it was because I steeped the grains instead of mashing them. So, I'm wondering if going with the last used recipe and your method will hit the target OG.
The other beer I'd like to brew next is a dry session stout ala Guinness. I had pretty good luck with Austin Home Brew's "Dry Stout" PM recipe, but it was a little higher in ABV than what I was hoping for. I'm shooting for 4% ABV. So I'm thinking of either cutting back on the extract a little in their recipe or a second attempt at a modified version I made here.
Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.
John
OP
OP
it looks like the problem with your scottish pale was that you didn't mash properly.
the problem with dry stout recipe looks to be a reader error...you have to mix extract VERY WELL when you take a reading and it's almost certain that it will be a little off anyway. you may wish to take your reading pre-boil, before you add your extract. Then calculate by volume to get a more accurate reading. i think beersmith can help you with this. you're guaranteed to get fermentables from your extract so you won't need to measure...you can just calculate your og based on your efficiency from the grains.
anyway, from your past experience with these last couple of brews, i think you can easily lock down one of those recipes using this method. let me know if you have any more questions!
the problem with dry stout recipe looks to be a reader error...you have to mix extract VERY WELL when you take a reading and it's almost certain that it will be a little off anyway. you may wish to take your reading pre-boil, before you add your extract. Then calculate by volume to get a more accurate reading. i think beersmith can help you with this. you're guaranteed to get fermentables from your extract so you won't need to measure...you can just calculate your og based on your efficiency from the grains.
anyway, from your past experience with these last couple of brews, i think you can easily lock down one of those recipes using this method. let me know if you have any more questions!
jcole
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the input DM. I'm going to try again with the Scottish Pale Ale and your method next weekend and see if I can get better efficiency mashing.
As far as you can tell, there's no need to tweak that recipe?
What temp would you target for mashing?
OP
OP
looks like a decent recipe to me, although that seems like a lot of hops for a scottish ale.
you've got some weird adjuncts in there, too, might i ask why you picked the torrified and sugar? could be good, just curious what you're going for.
the torrified adds a wonderful wheat flavor and the sugar will dry the beer out.
regarding mash...what kind of beer do you want? do you want it really thick and malty or dry or something in between?
jcole
Well-Known Member
Those are the ingredients we came up with add the beginning of the thread based on knowledge of the beer and input from the brewmaster from the brewery.
Deuchars is not a typical Pale Ale, but more of a lighter moderately hopped session ale. Its medium to light bodied per my recollection.
I'm thinking something in between. Not too malty for sure... but my first attempt came out a bit on the dry and thin side. I'd like to see a little more body, but still have it be well balanced and easily drinkable.
OP
OP
i'd cut the turbinado in half and mash at 154-155°F. that will stop some of the dryness from the sugar and give you some nice flavor form the golden promise.
jcole
Well-Known Member
Excellent. I'm also thinking about reducing the hops to 1 oz. of each. The beer was a little on the bitter side at first... but is mellowing.
Or should I leave as is expecting that better mash efficiency will help with the excessive bitterness?
OP
OP
you didn't list times on those...how long was each addition in?
from the looks of it, cutting down to 1 oz each will give you a more balanced beer. however, there's no way to determine exactly without knowing the alpha acid content and boil time for each hop.
from the looks of it, cutting down to 1 oz each will give you a more balanced beer. however, there's no way to determine exactly without knowing the alpha acid content and boil time for each hop.
jcole
Well-Known Member
Sorry. Here are the approximate times, amounts, and acid content from the original recipe:
1.66 oz Fuggles [4.50%] (60 min) Hops
0.71 oz Fuggles [4.50%] (15 min) Hops
1.34 oz Williamette [5.50%] (5 min) Hops
1.34 oz Styrian Goldings [5.00%] (5 min) Hops
0.82 oz Styrian Goldings [5.00%] (0 min) Hops
0.82 oz Williamette [5.50%] (0 min) Hops
OP
OP
i'll calculate that in promash for you when i get home...should only be an hour or so, i needz lunch and to check on my banana bread ale...it's on ice and i don't want it getting less than 70°F.
jcole
Well-Known Member
Thanks! I really appreciate all of the help. I'm still learning and in search of that perfect beer.
OP
OP
ok, jcole...this is what you have right now...very unbalanced on the bittering end:
i've based it on a belgian pale, since that would be closest in regards to style to what i perceive a scottish pale would be. let me do some numbers and i'll post my recommendation in a few minutes.
i've based it on a belgian pale, since that would be closest in regards to style to what i perceive a scottish pale would be. let me do some numbers and i'll post my recommendation in a few minutes.
jcole
Well-Known Member
Hmmm..I'd say its closer to an English Bitter than a Belgian Pale. Anyone else familiar with this beer?
OP
OP
no, you're right. it fits right into the guidelines of a bitter.
here would be my recommendation. i rounded off most of the numbers for you. its actually really similar to orfys original suggestion.
i made this as a 5.25 gallon batch. one question...do you have whole hops or pellets???
here would be my recommendation. i rounded off most of the numbers for you. its actually really similar to orfys original suggestion.
i made this as a 5.25 gallon batch. one question...do you have whole hops or pellets???
jcole
Well-Known Member
Ok, cool.
Great! Thanks. I'm really getting excited about doing this one again.
My LHBS, Austin Home Brew will probably have pellets for these.
OP
OP
ok, let me know if the alpha acid levels are different.
you see how i redistributed the hops? that large addition at 60 minutes is what's really causing your bitterness. for some reason, orfys calculations come out differently...part of that might be he was assuming whole hops...maybe a partial boil, too.
you see how i redistributed the hops? that large addition at 60 minutes is what's really causing your bitterness. for some reason, orfys calculations come out differently...part of that might be he was assuming whole hops...maybe a partial boil, too.
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