Larger starter, Does it make fermentation faster?

I made 2 side by side 5 gallon carboys of wort to ferment. Potential alcohol for the wort was 6% Exactly as the recipe called for.
In one I pitched a vial of whitelabs british ale yeast.
In the other 5 gallons I pitched way more yeast 2 vials that I made a starter with each the size of 3/4 of a bottle of beer with the same yeast. The carboy that I pitched the larger starter into it already seems to have fermented out as in it's barely bubbling after 2 days. The other 5 gallons is still fermenting vigorously. Is this because the larger starter alaready got the job done in 2 days? I guess I could just go check the gravity but I haven't gotten that far yet Curious. I hope to hear the answer.
I love Beer and Mead
VirginiaWolf

virginiawolf said:

In the other 5 gallons I pitched way more yeast 2 vials that I made a starter with each the size of 3/4 of a bottle of beer with the same yeast.

Click to expand...

Are you saying you made 2 nine-ounce starters?

There's a lot of moving parts when it comes to yeast starters. It's hard to control the growth phase of more than one yeast sample without a lab. Lag times are based as much on the phase the yeasts are in as the number of cells. As such, a single sample test like the one you describe is not likely to give you actionable results unless you can control for the age of the yeast samples.

That being said, I just pitched my biggest yeast starter ever and got a kraisen within 3 hours. Details follow:
1. Yeast was SA-05 that I collected from a previous batch in a pint jar--way more cells that in a WLP vial.
2. On Brew Day (BD)-4, I pitched that yeast into a 0.8 gallon starter and aerated with a aquarium pump.
3. On BD-2, I cold crashed the starter.
4. On BD, I poured off the excess wart and pitched a room temp.
5. Proceeded to RDWHAHB with the assistant brewer.
6. By HB number three we had kraisen.

Usually, I don't see that kind of action until 8+ hrs after pitching.

Hi ArcaneXor, Yes I had two beer bottles that I had ready with sterile wort per the Charlie Papazian method of making a starter. I pitched a vial of british ale yeast in each bottle the day before and both starters were active the second day. On brew day I also had regular 3rd vial of yeast for 5 gallons same stuff and warmed it in my pocket as I brewed. When I pitched the yeast I put a regular vial in one carboy and then both the starters I made in the other. I did it out of curiousity. When I woke up they were both fermenting. The one I added more yeast into was going stronger than the other. Now the carboy I added less yeat into is still going strong but the one I put more yeast into has slowed. I'm guessing the larger starter did the work more quickly but I wasn't sure if that's how it would go. Curious, Thanks VW

Ravenshead, I'm thinking I should make another brew and just chill it and add it right on top of whats left behind after I transfer into the secondary. I've thought of doing this before but I never time it just right What you did was take the yeast from the bottom of the carboy and put it into a mason jar.HMNN I'm back into brewing again for the summer and this is inspiring me. Anyway I still haven't gotten the answer really. Does a larger yeast pitch finish fermenting quicker? I realize that there are alot of variables but according to my carboys more yeast finished quicker.

I just looked at the carboys and they're still both fermenting just the one has slowed. I'm working on a video to add so you can check it out. The fermenting temp is a bit high 82 but it has been so hot that's the temp in my basement go figure.

Here's the video Thanks for looking
[ame]http://youtu.be/rcOdiPajKMM[/ame]

There's a sticky on yeast washing that deals with reusing yeast. It's stupid easy once you do it the first time.

As far as finishing faster: I believe the answer is yes. The main reason professional brewers can go from grain to glass in such a short time is that they pitch way more than we HBer's do. The yeasts are less stressed by the wort environment and put off fewer off flavor esters. Thus, they don't need as much time cleaning up after themselves.

There are lots of threads about this here on HBT.

I made 4 batches on the same yeast cake , by the 4th batch, I was getting bubbles in the airlock by the 45 minute mark, with serious blowoff in 2 hrs. Batch #1 was good, but batches 2,3 , and 4 were excellent, top ten all time...I didn't wash the yeast, and had zero off flavors.I would rack the prior batch to either bottling bucket or secondary , and immediately dump the new batch on top of the yeast cake.

Yes, all things being relatively equal, a batch with more yeast (i.e. larger starter) will ferment faster.

Yeast will try to multiply to saturation. It takes time and energy. If you don't pitch enough they will poop out sooner or later. If you pitch too much the growth phase will not be strong enough and you will end up with the older and weaker doing too much of the work. You want to pitch just enough to get every cell to double so you have plenty of youngsters doing most of the work.

Sorry about the obfuscation. My main point was that I used a gallon-ish starter and I wanted to be sure and communicate the age of my yeast. Both parameters are important to the question from the OP.

Malticulous said:

Yeast will try to multiply to saturation. It takes time and energy. If you don't pitch enough they will poop out sooner or later. If you pitch too much the growth phase will not be strong enough and you will end up with the older and weaker doing too much of the work. You want to pitch just enough to get every cell do double so you have plenty of youngsters doing most of the work.

Click to expand...

This is what my posts were all about. I'm just not so elegant in prose.

Thanks for taking the time!! I appreciate the responses. I have read some about starters but admittedly did not research much on whether more yeast sped up the process before posting. Just in the past 6 brews or so I started making starters. Thanks for the optimism in regards to re using the yeast. I feel inspired again to brew. I end up brewing more than I have time to drink then I take a break then I get back into it again.
I've mostly kegged everything I brew but I want to naturally carbonate some upcoming batches in bottles. I want to see if naturally carbonating will impact the flavor. That was my first video post of my carboys fermenting

Did the carboys in the video look about right to what I'm describing? [ame]http://youtu.be/rcOdiPajKMM[/ame]

Ravenshead, How did the batch come out when you used a Gallon sized starter?

I love Beer and Mead,
Virginia Wolf

Hard to say on the carboys. I love your dungeon BTW.

I'm guessing the color differences in your video are due to the amount of yeast still in suspension. My guess is that if you let them both go for about a month (maybe just a week), you won't know the difference.

So you think the color will balance out in time? Interesting. I was wondering on that. In otherwords the color in the one thats still churning is lighter because of the moving yeast. I figure I'll transfer to secondary here in the next day or two. I'm excited to be brewing again. It had been a while. I appreciate you liking my dungeon brew room. I just overhauled that room for storage and painted the floor in the adjacent room that I brew in. Having that storage area is going to be a big benefit. I can't wait to have some of this fresh beer Virginia Wolf

I wouldn't x-fer until the churning is done. You'll probably find out that they look the same at that time.

I just pitched my gallon starter yesterday so who know's. That being said, it started making a kraisen as we watched it over a few hours. I haven't seen that before.

I remember reading somewhere that it is unlikely that homebrewers would over pitch so I think these large starters will do wonders for our brews.I hope it turns out well for you.
Virginia Wolf

Ravenshead, I transferred into secondary last night. Everything looked good I checked the gravity it was fine. The color looked more consistent but I noticed the vial I pitched without the starter was California ale yeast not British ale. That may have been a contributing factor as to why the fermentation was different as well. My mess up. Anyway it all smelled and tasted awesome. It has been a nice first brew for the season. I'll be back it again on sunday. Hope everything is going well for everyone with their brews
I love Beer and Mead,
Virginia Wolf

Large/healty starter = healthier/faster fermentation and usually more complete attenuation, if all other things are equal. I use alot of nutrient and O2 in my beers and I have stopped pitching starters that are too big, as my beers were drying out to much. I now try to follow suggested pitching rates based on gravity and also the style of beer I am brewing to control this.

This all being stated, for a beer of average gravity (1.050) I use an agitated and oxygenated 2 liter starter most of the time. For beers over that threshold I will adjust with the largest starter I need for anything under 1.100 being around a gallon. Anything stronger than that and I usually make a smaller beer with intentions of pitching on the cake.

virginiawolf said:

Ravenshead, I transferred into secondary last night. Everything looked good I checked the gravity it was fine. The color looked more consistent but I noticed the vial I pitched without the starter was California ale yeast not British ale. That may have been a contributing factor as to why the fermentation was different as well. My mess up. Anyway it all smelled and tasted awesome. It has been a nice first brew for the season. I'll be back it again on sunday. Hope everything is going well for everyone with their brews
I love Beer and Mead,
Virginia Wolf

Click to expand...

That would make a difference alright. They should both taste fine though.

Thanks Permo and Ravenshead, I appreciate your insights. My objective with the starters was mainly to avoid slow starts. I had been getting some yeasts from a variant brewshop a while back and having trouble plus a couple times in winter the cold stalled the fermentation so I got brew belts. Gradually learning from reading and experience as I went and the trial and error type type things that happened along the way has been quite the experience. Using starters is awesome. Permo I appreciate you mentioning that too large of a starter could dry things out. 2 liters sounds pretty huge especially compared to what one can purchase at a homebrew shop I plan to brew again sunday so I'll probably make some more starters tomorrow Best Wishes, VW

Bottom line being taste, you'll need to do some blinded testing to see which one you and others actually prefer!

But I have found that once I began using starters, my lag time decreased. I now generally do a 2 quart starter for every batch. If I was going to do something really big, I might go even larger.

Biochemedic, Thanks for sharing. I should go make a starter right now I plan to brew tomorrow. I'm ready minus the yeast starter. I bottled some yesterday from the last batch with my brother because we split part of the last batch. Typically I keg. I'm curious if there will be any noticeable taste difference or improvement of any type with the natural carbonation. It has been a long time since I bottled. We got a new brewshop in our area with a greater selection and the guy is awesome with great grain prices. It has made it easier for me to get what I need. Life is good.
I love beer and mead,
Virginia Wolf