Wyeast or White Labs? New to liquid yeast

So I only have 5 extract brews under my belt so far, and have decided to give liquid yeast a try. I have only being using the dry yeast that comes with most of the extract kits so far. I was wondering what is the difference between White Labs and Wyeast?

I plan on making a hoppy pale ale next, but would appreciate some input from you more experienced brewers which liquid yeast to use? What do you guys prefer and any tips for using them?

Again with the pale ale I was not going to make a starter unless I really should, figured with a SG of 1.045 thought I would be ok?

Cheers

Most yeast strains come from common sources. The retailers just give trhem their own names. I buy the strains that my LHBW carries. Try this link for a cross reference: http://www.mrmalty.com/yeast.htm

Differences, if any, are subtle. Many are the same strain, though some have reported differences. Use whichever is fresher & in stock.

The link above is extremely handy.

The main difference between White Labs and Wyeast (for the most part) is the "Activator Pack" or "Smack Pack" technology that Wyeast uses to boost cell count - but if you're making a starter like you should be anyway, it doesn't matter too, too much.

White Labs also has a tendency to fizz up in people's faces when they open the vial.

I know many brewers prefer one brand over the other. I have made fantastic beers with both brands and have no problem switching back and forth between either. White Labs comes in a vial that you would simply shake a bit before opening and pouring into your cooled wort. Wyeast comes in a foil pouch containing an inner pouch of liquid nutrient. The inner pouch is "smacked" and the package allowed to swell for a few hours at room temp. before pitching into cooled wort.

If brewing is something that you enjoy and intend to continue as a hobby, then I would recommend buying the necessary items to make yeast starters and possibly even a stir plate. Yeast starters just get the yeast up to par and ready and healthy enough to make you some good, clean beer. I always make a starter and use a stir plate a day or two in advance of pitching the yeast into my wort. My lag times, or the time it takes from pitching yeast to active fermentation has greatly decreased.

For a hoppy ale, I would recommend White Labs WLP001- California Ale. It clears from the beer very well. Also, Wyeast 1968 London ESB is one of my favorite yeasts for light hoppy ales, like IPAs and bitters.

Cheers!

ao125 said:

...that Wyeast uses to boost cell count...

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Doesn't boost cell count. Just gets 'em warmed up:

From the Wyeast website:

"...plus an internal nutrient packet. This Wyeast Smack-pack™ system allows yeast metabolism to begin prior to inoculation as well as providing proof of yeast health..."

Thanks for the link really does help to show that they are mostly the same yeast, but is there much a benefit of one vs the other? I read that the smack pack has roughly 100 billion cells while the WL has roughly 30 to 60 billion cells per vial benefit for the smack pack there?

Also, do you guys have any tips for a first time user of liquid yeast? Or is it simply okay for me to pitch the yeast simply start in the fermenter due to I'm only making a 1.044.

If I'm dry hopping the pale ale, want some good citrus notes in there, would you recommend 1056, WL001, or others?

Thanks again for the help,


Cheers

Because that is what my LHBS carries.

Go to the Mr. Malty website linked above and read his articles about starters. Those will answer most of your questions about why you need a starter, how big of a starter you need, and what variables are in play when determining how big of a starter to make. Then use the calculator to determine if you need a starter, and how big of a starter you need.

For a regular American pale ale with strong hop notes, 1056 or WLP001 would be ideal.

My LHBS carries both, but Wyeast is about 25 cents less expensive. I suppose I should check dates, but having some Scottish ancestry, that extra 25 cents is usually the determining factor for me.

dshay said:

Or is it simply okay for me to pitch the yeast simply start in the fermenter

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As long as the yeast you plan to use has not expired then you could just go ahead and pitch it without making a starter. It may take a bit longer for fermentation to begin.

Are you buying the yeast from a LHBS or are you ordering it? I would make a starter if the yeast is being shipped unless it was shipped with an ice pack. Then again, how did your LHBS get the yeast?

A tip I use when using Wyeast is to soak the whole pouch in sanitizer before cutting the package open with scissors that have also been sanitized. I like to do the same with my White Labs vial before opening. Also, White Labs mentions to shake the vial before opening but I would wait a few minutes after shaking before opening. I have made this mistake before and ended up with a mess!

I didn't realize that the Wyeast had such a higher cell count - I would assume that could only be a good thing. Both are high quality manufacturers though so you really can't go wrong.

You'll find in general that you just buy whatever is available for the specific recipe you're making.

Also, I know that you're wanting to use liquid, but if you're going to just use WY1056 or WLP001 you might as well just use dry US-05. It's one of the best dry yeasts and the same strain (Chico/Sierra Nevada) as the liquid equivalents. Plus the cell count in the dry is even higher and you definitely don't need a starter - just properly rehydrate.

I prefer White Labs just because preparing the Wyeast Smack Pack is an extra unnecessary step that adds extra time to the process. Like it was said earlier, you still need to do a starter regardless. I like just opening the White Labs vial the day I plan on making the starter and pouring it in. However, both brands carry a few strands the the others don't and they each come out with seasonal strains that are unique. The White Labs numbers seem easier for me to remember when referencing them, too. Oh, and they offer a free vial of yeast for every 5 you buy.

dshay said:

Also, do you guys have any tips for a first time user of liquid yeast? Or is it simply okay for me to pitch the yeast simply start in the fermenter due to I'm only making a 1.044.

If I'm dry hopping the pale ale, want some good citrus notes in there, would you recommend 1056, WL001, or others?

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http://www.mrmalty.com/calc/calc.html sez that 5 gallons of 1.044 needs 155 billion cells. a one-week old smackpack (i.e. very fresh) is down to 92 billion. so if you want to pitch at recommended strength, you'll need a starter.

your choice of yeast shouldn't affect dry-hopping, really. you won't get citrus from the yeast, that'll come from your choice of hops.

not sure where you are getting your #s but they are incorrect

direct from white labs website FAQs

White Labs Pitchable yeast is packaged with 70 to 140 billion yeast cells

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wyeast

100 Billion Yeast Cells - The Direct Pitch ACTIVATOR™ contains 100% Pure Liquid Yeast plus an internal nutrient packet. This Wyeast Smack-pack™ system allows yeast metabolism to begin prior to inoculation as well as providing proof of yeast health.

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neither one is easier of more time consuming to use - you can pitch without smacking the activator pack although as mentioned you do need to open White Labs vials slowly like you would a shaken up bottle of soda

ao125 said:

The main difference between White Labs and Wyeast (for the most part) is the "Activator Pack" or "Smack Pack" technology that Wyeast uses to boost cell count - but if you're making a starter like you should be anyway, it doesn't matter too, too much.

White Labs also has a tendency to fizz up in people's faces when they open the vial.

Click to expand...

A smack pack shows yeast viabiltiy, but does almost nothing to increase cell count.

I'm a White Labs fan, because before I learned about the value of a starter, I would pitch the stuff directly into the wort. No smack & wait like you must do with Wyeast.

I'm also a White Labs fan for a totally impractical reason: the test tube shaped container. So many alternative uses once the yeast is gone! Use 'em as shot glasses, for example. I have this dream where I eventually start washing yeast from a previous batch, letting it compact in the fridge for a few weeks, pouring off the extra water, and storing the yeast in the test tubes they came from. Circle of life.

But anyway, White Labs, even without a starter, has been a consistent high performer for me, so I gotta give it a thumbs-up.

I think you'll be happy with either.

Thanks guys the the tips and information. I would have to order WhiteLabs online and I believe my LHBS has Wyeast, so I guess it all depends on which I just decide to pull the trigger on. Was going to order a Northern Brewer kit for their extra pale kit and pick up some citrus hops to dry hop it with, so I thinking about the WL001 since I'm ordering from them anyways.

But would I need a stir plate for a starter, or is there another way such as shaking it every so often?

Seriously, trust me on this one, go check out the Mr. Malty Calculator for yourself and play around. You can adjust the calculation based on if you are using a stir plate, shaking from time to time, or just letting the starter sit there. The answers are out there.

you don't have to have a stir plate.

dshay said:

Thanks guys the the tips and information. I would have to order WhiteLabs online and I believe my LHBS has Wyeast, so I guess it all depends on which I just decide to pull the trigger on. Was going to order a Northern Brewer kit for their extra pale kit and pick up some citrus hops to dry hop it with, so I thinking about the WL001 since I'm ordering from them anyways.

But would I need a stir plate for a starter, or is there another way such as shaking it every so often?

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you can shake, it just doesn't provide as much cell growth, it is an option for mr malty's calculator and certainly works better than no starter at all

if you are going wlp001 you can save $ by using us-05, same strain, cheaper and higher cell count so no starter necessary

if you want a little more character (slightly fruitier) you can try the wlp051 which is still very clean and hop focused just less attenuation which may be a good thing with a pale ale with a gravity of 1.045

I prefer to use the Wyeast smack packs, personally. Those complaining about having to smack it and wait are kind of missing the point. You don't *have* to smack it if you don't want. It's pitchable as-is, but it can only help to use the activator. It's not any more or less time. I take it out of my fridge and smack it so it has time to get busy while I'm starting my brew. How is that more time consuming? Dear anyone who said that, please explain? It's better to not shock your yeast with a temperature difference. Smacking it and letting it sit while you brew just allows your yeast temp to be closer to the wort temp.

I've used White Labs vials twice, and both times, they've acted like a shook-up soda bottle and sprayed. I don't want to deal with that. Granted, both yeasts have made great beers.

I prefer Wyeast even if only for how the swelling of the bag confirms viability.

I mainly use white labs except for certain strains or the seasonals. 1728 seems to perform better than 28 for instance.

i always make a starter. Whichever strain I need, regardless of company, is what I brew with.

I personally prefer WLP001 over WY1056, it seems cleaner and more flocculant. I also prefer WLP007 of Brittish Ale II. WLP029 is the best kolsch yeast I have found.

I love WY1275 for English Ales...etc..etc....

Proboscidea said:

I'm a White Labs fan, because before I learned about the value of a starter, I would pitch the stuff directly into the wort. No smack & wait like you must do with Wyeast.

I'm also a White Labs fan for a totally impractical reason: the test tube shaped container. So many alternative uses once the yeast is gone! Use 'em as shot glasses, for example. I have this dream where I eventually start washing yeast from a previous batch, letting it compact in the fridge for a few weeks, pouring off the extra water, and storing the yeast in the test tubes they came from. Circle of life.

But anyway, White Labs, even without a starter, has been a consistent high performer for me, so I gotta give it a thumbs-up.

I think you'll be happy with either.

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I am with the test tube crowd. I reuse it with washed yeast, as it already has the label.

When I'm not using a dry yeast, I use White Labs, because thats what my LHBS carries.

FWIW, White Labs will give you a free vial for every 10 you buy.
You just peel the labels and mail them in.

With all of the inputs from you guys I think I am going to try WL001 for my hoppy pale ale that I am going to make.

Also Mr. Malty is a very helpful tool. Thank you for the recommendation everyone, for that reason I will make a small start the night before and shake it every now and then ( no stir plate yet).

Thanks again everyone

As soon as I figure out how to post photos on here I will post some of my brew day and my first attempt at a starter

Cheers

DrinkNoH2O said:

I didn't realize that the Wyeast had such a higher cell count - I would assume that could only be a good thing. Both are high quality manufacturers though so you really can't go wrong.

You'll find in general that you just buy whatever is available for the specific recipe you're making.

Also, I know that you're wanting to use liquid, but if you're going to just use WY1056 or WLP001 you might as well just use dry US-05. It's one of the best dry yeasts and the same strain (Chico/Sierra Nevada) as the liquid equivalents. Plus the cell count in the dry is even higher and you definitely don't need a starter - just properly rehydrate.

Click to expand...

I find subtle but definite diffences between 05 and the other 2. I've gone back to using 1056 instead of 05.

Proboscidea said:

I'm a White Labs fan, because before I learned about the value of a starter, I would pitch the stuff directly into the wort. No smack & wait like you must do with Wyeast.

I'm also a White Labs fan for a totally impractical reason: the test tube shaped container. So many alternative uses once the yeast is gone! Use 'em as shot glasses, for example. I have this dream where I eventually start washing yeast from a previous batch, letting it compact in the fridge for a few weeks, pouring off the extra water, and storing the yeast in the test tubes they came from. Circle of life.

But anyway, White Labs, even without a starter, has been a consistent high performer for me, so I gotta give it a thumbs-up.

I think you'll be happy with either.

Click to expand...

You don't have to smack the Wyeast?

Denny said:

You don't have to smack the Wyeast?

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No, the yeast is in the outer pack. The bubble thingy you smack is the starter wort. So you could just dump the yeast right out. That said, I've never done that, I've always done the smack-and-wait.

I mostly use WL these days though, for reasons stated - more convenient packaging that is reusable.

ResumeMan said:

No, the yeast is in the outer pack. The bubble thingy you smack is the starter wort. So you could just dump the yeast right out. That said, I've never done that, I've always done the smack-and-wait.

I mostly use WL these days though, for reasons stated - more convenient packaging that is reusable.

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it's Not starter wort - it's nutrients that get the yeast active but does not result in any growth

terrapinj said:

it's Not starter wort - it's nutrients that get the yeast active but does not result in any growth

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Er, I think it's a wort. It's not enough of it to grow any (meaningful amount of) yeast, but I'm pretty sure it's just a wort, i.e. a maltose-heavy sugar solution.

Is it really something else?

Denny said:

I've gone back to using 1056 instead of 05.

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I usually use 001 now. 05 really doesn't like to flocculate as well as the liquid strains, and is more prone to throwing off peach/apricot esters.

it's nutrients and wort - I wanted to clarify the starter portion - i'm sure its just semantics but I like to be careful because you never know when a new brewer is going to read and draw the wrong conclusion

The small inner packet contains the sterile nutrient and wort that feeds the yeast before it is added to your fermenter.
///
The cell count does not increase significantly when the package is activated.. The smack-pack is not designed to dramatically increase the cell count, it simply “activates” the yeast metabolism.

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http://www.wyeastlab.com/faqs.cfm?website=1#r15

White Labs = reusable and recycle-able container; FTW.
If you don't want it to explode when you open it, break the seal when you first pull it out of your fridge, and place it in a coffee cup so it sits upright. The CO2 will then slowly escape as it builds up in the container. Just be sure to give the outside of the container a squirt of Starsan.

Liquid? Meh....

Fermentis, Notty, etc...

I only use liquid when I brew a Belgian, Scottish, or something that can benefit from a liquid.

These are NOT your father's dry yeasts! Try them! Bullet proof and fast!

jma99 said:

Liquid? Meh....

Fermentis, Notty, etc...

I only use liquid when I brew a Belgian, Scottish, or something that can benefit from a liquid.

These are NOT your father's dry yeasts! Try them! Bullet proof and fast!

Click to expand...

Variety is the spice of life my friend.
I like dry yeast as well as the next guy, but I also like to change things up a bit. When you go to the store to buy beer, do you always buy the same brand?

I've been using White Labs for 15 years. Thats what my local store carries.

IMO All of them, Wyeast, White Labs, and the Dry Yeasts are equal when used properly. One may have the right style while another doesn't for a given recipe.

I have used all of them and really have no preference. I just use the one that fits the situation.

A few other people mentioned it, but no one linked to it. White Labs gives you free stuff if you buy their yeast:

http://www.whitelabs.com/beer/homebrew_customerclub.html

That's honestly what has me coming back. I've used both brands, and I typically make starters or pitch on an old cake, so the number of cells per vial/pack and smack pack nutrients don't mean all too much to me. They both have very similar strains so you should be able to find just about whatever you want to brew from either company. My LHBS mostly carries Wyeast, but I buy from AHS/NB/MWS 9 times out of 10, so I have my choice either way.