Some kind of IIPA

So im planning ahead for maybe the late fall and thinking of an IIPA, this is the first draft of the recipe. Im a little unsure of the hops I have picked out so I welcome all criticism.

TYPE: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.25 gal
Boil Size: 6.5 gal
Estimated OG: 1.100 SG
Estimated Color: 15.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 91.9 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 85.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
13 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 70.3 %
3 lbs Rye Malt (4.7 SRM) Grain 16.2 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 8.1 %
8.0 oz Melanoiden Malt (20.0 SRM) Grain 2.7 %
8.0 oz Special Roast (50.0 SRM) Grain 2.7 %

2.00 oz Columbus (Tomahawk) [14.00%] (90 min) Hops 70.7 IBU
1.00 oz Sterling [7.50%] (30 min) Hops 12.2 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (30 min) Hops 9.0 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 30 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Sterling [7.50%] (Dry Hop 30 days) Hops -


Mash Schedule: Double Infusion, Medium Body
Total Grain Weight: 18.50 lb
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temp Step Time
Protein Rest Add 16.65 qt of water at 133.1 F 122.0 F 30 min
Saccrification Add 14.80 qt of water at 198.4 F 154.0 F 30 min
Mash Out Add 12.95 qt of water at 206.2 F 168.0 F 10 min

I could also use some help choosing between white labs english ale yeast and burton ale yeast. Im sort of learning towards the english yeast.

I would not use an english ale yeast in an IIPA - they tend to leave more residual sugars, and this can be bad in an IIPA.

alright, what kind of yeast would you recommend?
I have white labs english and burton ale yeast
wyeast belgian strong ale, and bavarian wheat.
nottingham, windsor and safale and saflager dry yeasts.
I can make a trip to the LHBS but im not sure what they have on hand.

I would add some hops at 5 minutes and flameout. I steep hops after FO at 180f for 30minutes which really adds to the flavor.

If you mash at 154 with English yeast it may be too sweet, so I would lower the mash if you use them

I'd use the nottingham, but certainly don't do it on my say so!

I dont want to lower the mash temp too much for fear of throwing off the balance of malt to bitter. what if I ferment with the English yeast then pitch a neutral dry yeast just to finish off the residual sweetness?

Yeast strain attenuation:
English 66.5%
Burton 72%
Nottingham 75%

so maybe ferment with WL English ale and finish with notty?
will the notty eat up the esters the English worked hard to create?

niquejim said:

I would add some hops at 5 minutes and flameout. I steep hops after FO at 180f for 30minutes which really adds to the flavor.

If you mash at 154 with English yeast it may be too sweet, so I would lower the mash if you use them

Click to expand...

I'll second those sentaments. Or, you might want to go with a first wort hop for some added kick and aroma.
I would just go with the Notty through and through. Great attenuation, no residual flavors. Looks tasty!

WLP001 I would use for sure.

I could see using WLP023, although I personally wouldn't in an IIPA as some of the traits of that strain don't really fit in to the style (White labs lists apple/honey/pear flavors). I would not recommend WLP002 for this style at all. WLP002 is a poor attenuating yeast that leaves behind a lot of residual long chain dextrins. I use it for things like Southern English Brown Ale and Old Ale - beers that are supposed to have a sweet background.

I've used WLP007 in IPA's and it turns out well. I like my IPA's and IIPA's on the dry side and I just kegged an IPA that WLP007 took from 1.074 to 1.010. It's more attenuative than either WLP002 or WLP023.

Nottingham is also a good choice, I've used it along with WLP001 and WLP051 for both styles.

Why the special roast in an IIPA? I like the choice of Rye, it will add a nice dimension to the beer.

I thought the special roast might help the biscuity character of the beer, this is the second rye IPA I will have made and I loved the first so I cant wait to try this one.

so I didnt realize white labs had two different english ale yeasts I should clarify that I have WLP002 which might finish too sweet.

I just used the burton yeast WLP023 in some kind of porter I made and it came out great, very rich and complex but maybe a little sweet so im not sure if I want to use it for this IIPA.

my LHBS has the following on hand if I need something else
Wyeast
TRAPPIST HIGH GRAVITY
LONDON ALE YEAST
American Ale Yeast 1056
BRITISH WHITBREAD YEAST
Ringwood Ale Yeast
BELGIAN ALE YEAST
All American Ale Yeast
THAMES VALLEY ALE YEAST
LONDON ALE YEAST III
Northwest Ale Yeast
BRITISH ALE II
EUROPEAN ALE YEAST

I believe Wyeast 1056 is the same thing as WLP001, but I'm not positive. My LHBS only carries White Labs, so I've not used Wyeast before except when brewing with other people.

If you want a biscuity character, I'd probably just use biscuit malt or victory malt (a little more toasty). I'm not sure I'd want that in an IIPA, but I don't have to drink the beer - in my mind, IIPA begins and ends with hops, anything more complex is an American Barleywine.

I think you'd do well with the American Ale 1056, which I've used quite a few times (all on pale style ales), or the All American Ale. I'm actually considering using that one on my Amber Rye this weekend.

after reading the spec sheets on all the different yeasts im looking at, I'm a little worried most of them list 10% as their alcohol tolerance and it looks like my beer maybe 10% or even slightly higher. If I pitch a good starter I should be ok right? I can start with a 250ml starter step up to 500 then 1000 then 2000ml.

I realized I have wyeast 1388 belgian strong with a tolerance of 12-13% and an attenuation of 74-78% its flavor profile doesnt sound bad either, it might not be recommended for the style but will it make a good beer?

k1v1116 said:

after reading the spec sheets on all the different yeasts im looking at, I'm a little worried most of them list 10% as their alcohol tolerance and it looks like my beer maybe 10% or even slightly higher. If I pitch a good starter I should be ok right? I can start with a 250ml starter step up to 500 then 1000 then 2000ml.

I realized I have wyeast 1388 belgian strong with a tolerance of 12-13% and an attenuation of 74-78% its flavor profile doesnt sound bad either, it might not be recommended for the style but will it make a good beer?

Click to expand...

*most* beer yeasts will handle 10% without too much trouble. If you go getting 12% or higher then you really need to be concerned about the strain that you select.

And if you're really concerned about it, you can rack it into another fermenter and pitch some chapagne yeast to finish it out, but I'd definitely wait and see where it ends up with just the ale yeast before doing that.

Does anyone think dry hopping 2 oz for 30 days might be too long?

Also don't worry about your yeast alcohol tolerance being 10%. If you pitch a large amount of yeast you'll be fine.

The beer should be very malty so the strong hop flavor and aroma from the dry hopping should be balanced or at least fitting for the style. also one of those ounces is leaf hops not pellets so its a little less strength for the weight.

The beer should be very malty so the strong hop flavor and aroma from the dry hopping should be balanced or at least fitting for the style. also one of those ounces is leaf hops not pellets so its a little less strength for the weight.

Click to expand...

OK.... the beer should be balanced with hops I agree but the hop starts to break down after a week or so and leaves grassy vegetal flavor that is not desirable in beer weather it’s malty or not.
If I could suggest putting the pellets at the end of primary then rack the beer off the yeast and pellets on to the leaf hops in the secondary then rack to keg and keg hop.
Just a thought!

ok I actually didnt know that about the hops breaking down. So I should put them in once the fermentation is over but before I rack to secondary? and leave it about a week?

I've heard about grassy flavors from dry-hopping too long, but I've also heard people dry hopping in the keg and not experiencing any of that. Maybe the cold storage prevents the hops from decomposing, I dunno.

This is a beer that will need some age before it's ready to drink. I'd consider bulk-aging it in secondary, and then dry hopping it for a couple weeks before you want to bottle/keg it.

two more questions for anyone reading this.
one is about using oak, I have a bag of toasted french oak chips I got awhile back, do you think it would be good in this? the original IPAs were stored in oak barrels right?
two is what about a kolsch yeast? I like the wyeast kolsch its very neutral and should expose the malt and hops really well, but ive never used in on anything this strong. do you think it would leave any bad flavors, sulfury, higher alcohols...? should I just stick with something like Wyeast 1056?

Oak in an IPA could be good. I haven't used oak in a brew before, so I can't help you on the process... I'd personally be inclined to split the batch and only oak some of it if I had the capability to do so.

I think the 1056 is pretty much your ideal yeast for this beer. You could use the kolsch yeast, if you really want to, but I don't think it'll contribute anything special. I'd only use it if you happen to have a yeast cake coming available or something like that. If you're buying new yeast, I'd go with the 1056.

Since it looks like an American IPA, im a HUGE fan of WLP051.. It really brings out hte citrus flavors from your cascade hops..