FWH Beersmith

Does beersmith adjust for FWH when you click the option for it? Should I adjust the time when FWH option is active?

Yes. Note your IBU's when you change between boil and FWH. Should increase slightly.

I believe it does increase the IBUs but I don't know if that's right. I have not done a lot of FWH but I've read that the bitterness is more like a 20 minute addition vs. a 60 minute or more addition.

BeerSmith defaults to a 10% increase of IBU for FWH ovwer the normal value calculated for that addition of Hop AA%, addition weight, boil time, and utilization based on the specific gravity. You can change this in the "Options" as you make adjustments for your brew equipment

I've read that you should adjust your time for the FWH addition since it sits in the wort while you're sparging, but I don't know if this is completely accurate since it won't actually be boiling the whole time. Regardless, for my first attempt at FWH, I am adjusting the time to include the sparge time, since that is what is recommended. We'll see how it turns out.

Hello Nukebrewer,

I'm not an expert brew chemist or software guru. So please consider the source as you make your decision as to how you will proceed.

I FWH every batch because I buy hops in small quantities as I brew. I want to get the best "Bang for the Buck" with my hops as at .oz quantities from the LHBS they are expensive. Haveing read Papazian, Plamer, More, & Daniels, and many other articles, I believe that the basic IBU calculation is based on the isomerization of the Alpha Acids accomplished by boiling. Other factors such as steeping or dry hopping are usually omitted because while they contribute oils & resins that give flavor and aroma, they are not boiled, therefore they do not contribute to the IBU's bittering the beer.

As I understand Mash Hopping and First Wort Hopping, since they create a long period of contact with the wort at elevated temps (not boiling but significantly elevated) they soften the resins & oils allowing them to be more easily and effectively isomerized during the boil. Each "Hop Guru" has a slightly different take on this so thier calculation are different. Usully they eventully lump it into positive percentage of the IBU contribution. So as mentioned above, steeping and dry hopping are NOT followed closely by a boil, they do not make an IBU contribution.

Because I'm just a small batch homebrewer, I have no way to cost effectively test for IBU much less account for an actual percentage increase based on MH or FWH. I just assume, becasue people much smarter than me say they do, MH and FWH make an aproximate 10% increase.

Clear as mud??

I think, just as there are significant differences between the "Hop Guru's" like Garetz, Rager, and Tinseth on Utilization, us everyday joe's just need to pick one and stay with it.

Ray Daniel's view seems elegant to me. He says he thinks Rager was a pessimist, Garetz was an Optimist, and Tinseth was somewhere in between. So he picked Tinseth. So do I based on his middle of the road opinion. Further, he feels most of us can not precieve a difference in bittering of less than 5 IBU. So where does this leave us?

I picked one calculation method, Tinseth. I accept Brad Smith's (author of BeerSmith) 10% increase in contribution for MH or FWH and then quit worring about it, as most of these improvements are less than 5 IBU'sanyway!!! I now just leave the calcs setup the same way every time and brew to please the Princess and myself!! By keeping the calculations the same every time, I have the best chance of repeating a brew that we really liked.

Like I said, Clear as mud!!

When indicating using FWH, what amount of boil time do you set? I have read that FWH is equivolent to 20 minutes boil, but since the hops will be in the wort for the full boil time, should it be set to 60 or 90, or do you just Zero it out? When changing the boil time length, the IBU's change.

Help please

Sheldon said:

When indicating using FWH, what amount of boil time do you set? I have read that FWH is equivolent to 20 minutes boil, but since the hops will be in the wort for the full boil time, should it be set to 60 or 90, or do you just Zero it out? When changing the boil time length, the IBU's change.

Help please

Click to expand...

I leave mine set for the amount of time I actually plan to boil.

I don't attempt to alter boil time by first wort time. The 20 min is a very general statement. In actual practice I put the hops in the kettle before my first running, and they stay for as long as that running, both batch spages, and the time it takes to bring the kettle up to boil. Since I first wort with my boil quantity, they just stay in the pot till the boil is complete. I never boil for less than 60 min. and only longer if the style recommends it.

GilaMinumBeer, thats what I had been doing until I started to think about some articles I had read referring to 20 minutes and longer effects on IBU's.

Sheldon said:

GilaMinumBeer, thats what I had been doing until I started to think about some articles I had read referring to 20 minutes and longer effects on IBU's.

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Yes, but, the "intent" of selecting FWH is so that the software can apply the authors designed utilization factor in order to emulate said IBU contributions.

Perhaps I am stupid or just didn't explain correctly. When you indicate FWH, the software will display a different IBU content if you have "boil time" minutes on that drop down screen. If you put it to 20 (still selecting FWH) you get X IBU's. If you change the "boil time" minutes to 60, then the IBU's are higher. I am just trying to understand what to do with the "Boil time" minutes display to show the proper IBU's for the recipe.

Sheldon said:

Perhaps I am stupid or just didn't explain correctly. When you indicate FWH, the software will display a different IBU content if you have "boil time" minutes on that drop down screen. If you put it to 20 (still selecting FWH) you get X IBU's. If you change the "boil time" minutes to 60, then the IBU's are higher. I am just trying to understand what to do with the "Boil time" minutes display to show the proper IBU's for the recipe.

Click to expand...

I'm in the same boat. Bump.

Sheldon said:

Perhaps I am stupid or just didn't explain correctly. When you indicate FWH, the software will display a different IBU content if you have "boil time" minutes on that drop down screen. If you put it to 20 (still selecting FWH) you get X IBU's. If you change the "boil time" minutes to 60, then the IBU's are higher. I am just trying to understand what to do with the "Boil time" minutes display to show the proper IBU's for the recipe.

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Select FWH and set the Boil time to the actual time the hops will boil and let the software use the algorithms it was designed with to calculate the perceived IBU.

Sheldon said:

Perhaps I am stupid or just didn't explain correctly. When you indicate FWH, the software will display a different IBU content if you have "boil time" minutes on that drop down screen. If you put it to 20 (still selecting FWH) you get X IBU's. If you change the "boil time" minutes to 60, then the IBU's are higher. I am just trying to understand what to do with the "Boil time" minutes display to show the proper IBU's for the recipe.

Click to expand...

Because the software is then trying to calculate the IBU contribution of a 20 minute addition minus the 10% that the FWH algorithm uses to calculate perceived bitterness from FWH'ing.

thanks from me. That is the kind of explanation I was looking for. Select FWH and if doing a 60 minute boil, reflect that in the drop down and the software will make all the necessary IBU calculation adjustments. So simple when someone has patience and explains.

Sheldon

While everyone is on hops and ibu's i got a question. I just got the beersmith 2.0 software and started adding some of my recipes. One in perticular puts hops in at different times of the boil to get more complexity from the hops. I noticed beersmith just has how much hops. How do you get it to add hops at different times in boil in the recipe? And does it compensate ibu's and aroma etc. because of it.