lambic

i wanted to try a lambic style, but can't really find a recipe or much for guides can anyone help. I am hoping to start it before my birthbay 2/21 so it will be ready for my birthbay

I'd search the forums for "Lambic" because there are loads of threads in the archives about this. Essentially you want lots of starch for long term support of the microflora. Lambics take a very long time to mature so you won't be able to make one by your birthday.

maybe it will be 2 b-days then

squeekysheep said:

i wanted to try a lambic style, but can't really find a recipe or much for guides can anyone help. I am hoping to start it before my birthbay 2/21 so it will be ready for my birthbay

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Ya, a month isn't really enough time. I recently brewed a fruit lambic with a two month schedule that was very successful at the last homebrew meeting. After the first month, it tasted unpleasantly sour and smelled foul. A month later, it tasted great!

I asked everyone to guess how old the lambic was and the closest guess I received was 8 months (6 months off). But, I made a huge lambic starter four weeks in advance that I stepped up three times. That technique alone considerably reduced the time necessary for the bacteria to multiply in the fermenter. The next lambic I brew will use the same technique.

lamarguy said:

Ya, a month isn't really enough time. I recently brewed a fruit lambic with a two month schedule that was very successful at the last homebrew meeting. After the first month, it tasted unpleasantly sour and smelled foul. A month later, it tasted great!

I asked everyone to guess how old the lambic was and the closest guess I received was 8 months (6 months off). But, I made a huge lambic starter four weeks in advance that I stepped up three times. That technique alone considerably reduced the time necessary for the bacteria to multiply in the fermenter. The next lambic I brew will use the same technique.

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So you had a lambic with a pellicle and all and it finished in 2 months? Even with a four week starter, a lambic shouldn't be ready for at least a year. The bugs involved are slow working, and can't be coerced into working fast.

I would suggest reading the following:

Amazon.com: Wild Brews: Culture and Craftsmanship in the Belgian Tradition: Jeff Sparrow: Books

i want to brew it for 2/21/10

squeekysheep said:

i want to brew it for 2/21/10

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That wasn't clear from your first post, however it sounds like you have a pretty good idea of the time line on a lambic.

From everything I have seen on lambics the recipe is pretty simple the only thing is it takes special microorganisms and lots of time.

Usually they are a pilsner and wheat malt base, similar to a hefe. Then pitch the lambic blend and wait about a year. Some techniques pitch an ale yeast first then transfer to a secondary as the primary ferment finishes and pitch the lambic microbos.

If doing all grain then mashing at higher temperatures will provide extra unfermentable sugars for the bacteria. When doing extract a little maltodextrin may be beneficial. In either case you do not need starches but unfermentable sugars for the bacteria.

I am currently fermenting a Flander's red using the Roselare Blend. Similar type of beer but a different grain bill and slightly different organism mix.

Craig

squeekysheep said:

i want to brew it for 2/21/10

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There's not too much to it. The most difficult part about the recipe is finding aged hops. You could ask around here---that's where I got mine. You want the preservative qualities of the hops, but without the alpha acids. They should be at least 3 years old.

Otherwise, it's just a matter of 50% white wheat, 50% pilsner, with 3oz of aged hops. Mash high, like at 156f. If you want it really really sour, like cantillon or hanssen's, then add your wyeast lambic blend right to the wort. If you want it less sour, ferment it out with S-05 or a similar neutral ale yeast, but don't oxygenate your wort beforehand, and ferment around 60f. This will stunt fermentation and leave you with enough sugar for the bugs. Then, just wait a long time. The pellicle will form, and then drop, but it will take at least a few months for that to happen. I brewed mine on July 1st, and the pellicle is still strong.

i am reading up on it now, looking at articles and such but as always the folks here are great for first hand info because an article cannot respond to you.

i am kinda looking at it as a possible tradition mashing on the morning of my birthday and drinking it the night of the next.

currently i am looking into doing a turbid mash.


anyone have any idea on the hops ?

squeekysheep said:

i want to brew it for 2/21/10

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You better get started soon then.
What you'll need to do is a torbid mash.

Traditional Torbid Mash: From Page 141 of Wild Brews by Jeff Sparrow

Assume 2 quarts of water per pound of grain. (1.9 liters/450 grams)

1. Dough in Wheat, and add malt with 20% of the water to achieve 113° F (45° C), Rest for 15 minutes

2. Add 20% more of the water @ 212° F (100° C) to raise mash to 126° F (52° C), Rest for 15 minutes.

3. Remove 33% of the liquid, heat kettle to 190° F (88° C), and Hold.

4. Add 30% of the water @212° F (100° C) to raise mash to 149° F (65° C), rest for 45 minutes.

5. Remove 50% of the liquid , add to kettle, and reheat to 190° F (88° C) and hold.

6. Add 30% of the water @ 212° F (100° C) to raise the mash to 162° F (72° C), rest for 30 minutes.

7. Transfer Most fo the liquor in the mash tun - equell to roughly 38% of the total volume of the mash liquor - to the primary kettle and begin to heat.

8. Add contents of kettle to mash to raise to 172° F (78° C) rest for 20 minutes.

9. Vorlauf to remove husks and chunks.

10. Sparge with 190° F (88° C) water until gravity is less than 2 °P (1.008).


Wyeast Lambic Mash Schedule from Page 142 of the same book.

Assume 2.35 Qt water/lb of grain (2.25 lt/450 grams).
The Folks at Wyeast labs Brew Lambic on their pilot system. This simplified mash will extract the optimal amount of proteins and starches with the minimal number of rests and only one kettle.

1. Dough-in wheat with 10% of the barley and 75% of water @140° F (60° C)

2. increase to 212° F (100° C), and hold for approximately 30 minutes.

3 Add the balance of the malt and water, Adjust mash to 158° F (70° C), and hold for approximately 2 hours stirring continuosly. Rest for 30 minutes.

4. Sparge with 203° F (95° C) Water untill gravity is less than 2 °P (1.008).

Hope this helps.

AS far as Hops, you'll need some really old. low alpha acid hops.... Willamette, Goldings, fuggle or Saaz will work.

carnevoodoo said:

So you had a lambic with a pellicle and all and it finished in 2 months?

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Correct.

carnevoodoo said:

Even with a four week starter, a lambic shouldn't be ready for at least a year. The bugs involved are slow working, and can't be coerced into working fast.

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Wrong. I set out to experiment with that very hypothesis - is it possible to brew a short fermentation lambic? And, despite popular convention, it is possible.

At two months, the proof is in the pudding, so to speak.

Lamarguy,

Would you mind doing a step-by-step kind of layout of your process in a new thread. I would be very interested in the details of your process.

Thanks

Boerderij_Kabouter said:

Would you mind doing a step-by-step kind of layout of your process in a new thread. I would be very interested in the details of your process.

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Ya, I posted about it a month ago in another lambic thread. At that point, it was 2 months old and freshly bottled.

I brought it to the monthly homebrew meeting last Friday and it was received well. And, I got the same comments as here - How did you brew it in two months? The answer was and is - very easily.

I'll take some pictures of it when I get home tonight and post a separate thread with more details if people are interested...

that mash looks close to what i wrote down from a guide i found