A Thought - Mentorship Swap???

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GreenwoodRover

GreenwoodRover

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Just a thought that I don't really know how to turn into action...

I searched "swap" and after 6 pages I gave up so if its been done before it wasn't recent.

If some of the more experienced members would be willing, maybe we could arrange a swap where newer AG brewers (10 or less batches or whatever arbitrary number) could swap with more experienced AG brewers (30+batches say) for the purposes of an honest homebrewer review of the beer and dialing in procedure or identifing flaws or off flavors. It doesn't need to be exclusive to AG, maybe newer extract guys could swap with some of the more experienced extracters here as well.

Not a real good deal for the experienced guys (or gals), having to drink average or worse beer from a n00b, but to handicap it maybe do a 2:1 ratio (2, 12oz of n00b to 1, 12oz experienced) or have the n00b send a nice commercial 22oz as a "thank you".

Probably more of a pipeline/random style swap than a specific one like the RIS or 10der.

Would there be any interest in this? Possibly as an after the holidays thing?

Since it would more than likely be a partner-up kinda thing there wouldn't need to be any hard dates, but just maybe a centralized clearing house for the reviews...

I know that come Januray 15th I'll have 3-4 sytles finished and well aged in the pipeline I wouldn't mind getting a candid review on....
 
I would be very interested in this! I wouldn't mind not getting anything in return. It would be cool to try to match it up on style, though. That way we can see how it's really done!
 
I believe that there are only a couple of BJCP's around here. TxLaw is one and Reverend JC took the test recently, though I do not know what the results were.

You may want to PM one (or both) of them and see if you can send them some beer in exchange for an evaluation.

I'd have no problem giving an honest evaluation of a beer if sent to me, but I'm probably not going to send out my beers in return. I would think that if your main objective is to learn about the good and bad points of your beers and learn how you can make your beers better then the review/evaluation should serve as compensation.

Whatever you do, don't assume that high post count = experience.
 
I'd be interested. Never got anyone interested in my critique thread posted a few weeks back.

I wouldn't need or want anything in return, just feedback.
 
This is something that I'd be interested in as well. As a beginner AG brewer, I've only got my SWMBO and friends to evaluate what I make. Aside from either good or bad, I don't really get a detailed feedback to improve upon.
 
I've no problem giving a BJCP scoresheet critique for newer brewers. My early beers got some scathing reviews by some judges. It sucked. I was pissed, but they were right. And the feedback made me a better brewer.

A random pipeline idea is good, but sometimes we end up critiquing the recipe instead of the brewers technique.

I would suggest if you do this, you come up with an agreed upon, rather simple recipe...including a standard yeast and set mash schedule. It will be easier for an experienced brewer to identify off flavors or other flaws if the beer is brewed off of a template.
 
I will gladly try an AG or extract beer from just about anyone. I don't have enough experience (IMO) making beer yet, but I have drank enough of it and I like to think my reviews are pretty honest.
 
I can be honest in scoring beers in a contest, but it's hard here at HBT. I've had some fantastic beers, and was honest, but I've had some bad beers, too. I was pretty honest, mentioned an astringent off-flavor (probably due to water), but the brewer said something like "oh, yeah, all my beers have that" and really didn't want an honest review. So, I give up on critiquing beer unless the brewer really, really wants a critique!

It sounds easy- try my beer and give an honest review. But it's not that easy. No one really wants to hear a bad review. They hurt!

I love beer, and enjoy pulling out the BJCP scoresheets and trying to do my best to be honest. I'd rather have people enter a contest though, where they can get some unbiased opinions on the beer. Some scoresheets have great input on what to do, what might be lacking, any off-flavor and possible causes, etc. I'd encourage any body to enter a homebrew contest and really read the feedback on the scoring sheets.
 
I would love to send out some of my beer, of course id have to bottle some.:D I've only been brewing since January 08, but have made 135 gallons and have my processes down pat. I would not expect a pat on the head, as the purpose would be to identify flaws and become a better brewer. I can take a punch.
 
YooperBrew said:
I can be honest in scoring beers in a contest, but it's hard here at HBT. I've had some fantastic beers, and was honest, but I've had some bad beers, too. I was pretty honest, mentioned an astringent off-flavor (probably due to water), but the brewer said something like "oh, yeah, all my beers have that" and really didn't want an honest review. So, I give up on critiquing beer unless the brewer really, really wants a critique!

It sounds easy- try my beer and give an honest review. But it's not that easy. No one really wants to hear a bad review. They hurt!

I love beer, and enjoy pulling out the BJCP scoresheets and trying to do my best to be honest. I'd rather have people enter a contest though, where they can get some unbiased opinions on the beer. Some scoresheets have great input on what to do, what might be lacking, any off-flavor and possible causes, etc. I'd encourage any body to enter a homebrew contest and really read the feedback on the scoring sheets.
Click to expand...


I agree to a point. The BJCP is good at judging beers made to style, but alot of us make beers not quite to style (some good some bad) but would get hit hard at a comp.

I would be interrested in this, and I'm well past 100 batches
 
I'm sending out 3 beers this winter (early '09 to be precise) to 2 different semi-local contests (Upper Miss Mash Out, and, BABBLE brew off), both are AHA sanctioned so i'm hoping to get some reall (realltreallyreally) honest reviews. BUT I've heard both here and on the Jamil show on BN that a lot of time you just get 1 or 2 word "glib" responses on a subpar entry.
I "hope" my entries aren't sub par, and my original intention was to send my competition entries to fellow HBT-ers for thier review.
Granted I can see Yoopers point:
We're all frineds here (or at least we think so) so no-one wants to trash a fellow HBTers brew, but the caveat to this swap is that I want a BRUTALLY honest review.
Maybe the solution is to anominze the swap judging, only problem is that i don't know how. Maybe a cnetral clearing house for a ship to address(read MOD or other trustworthy person), reviews are sent to the clearing house via PM and then the impartial revires are posted by said "clearing house"

Just thinking our loud here, but maybe its the engineerd in my but i crave the reviews....
 
GreenwoodRover said:
Maybe a cnetral clearing house for a ship to address(read MOD or other trustworthy person), reviews are sent to the clearing house via PM and then the impartial revires are posted by said "clearing house"
quote]


The problem I see with this is the shipping itself. We'd all be paying twice to ship our beers. Once to the "clearing house", and again to the final recipient.

Unless the MOD that hosts the "clearing house" eats it and pays to ship out all of those beers:D
Click to expand...
 
I think it should be done along the same guidelines as any other swap. We all need to grow some thicker skin if we really want an honest, accurate assesment of our libations.
The moment that you send a PM to the mod hosting the swap, you are agreeing to participate. That includes the possibility of a bad review. I say just deal with it. If you get a good review, great. If you get a bad review, great. Take that and use it to improve your brewing techniques.
 
talleymonster said:
...If you get a good review, great. If you get a bad review, great. Take that and use it to improve your brewing techniques.
Click to expand...

True dat. Polite compliments do less to improve a person than a good ole fashion, honest critique. My best friends are the one who told me what I needed to hear...not what I wanted to hear.
 
Ok, so who wants to try my pumpkin ale? It's in 22's. Be ready to ship in about 2 weeks....just tell me how to ship....
 
I recently asked a member here to review a beer I made, and will do it again. I sent beer I was pretty darn sure was a good one.

It would be tough to be in the BJCP's position, but honesty is what should be expected. Have a thick skin, or don't be a part of the process.

It may also help (I should have done this), is for the "critiquee" to write up their own critique to send with the beer. A comparison between what you think your beer is, and what the person judging it thinks, would help develop your senses and judging ability.

My $0.02...!
 
I've been keen to have some experienced brewers try my latest batches, now that I'm getting reliable and predictable numbers from my setup. I do think that receiving feedback is its own reward... no need for a "swap" per se.

And I might be a little optimistic, but I think that someone willing to pay to mail beer without receiving beer in return might be serious enough to handle a brutally honest critique. That's my hope, anyway.

I think there are two kinds of critiquing, as Biermuncher mentioned previously. There's critiquing for a brewer's process, and then there's critiquing a recipe. I think both would be valuable.
 
Ill be moving to AG sometime early in the new year, mid jan to early feb most likely. After I get a few batches under my belt id be more then willing to trade with a more experienced member. As I am in Canada, it may serve well for myself to pair with another Canadian brewer.
 
if you want to try some beers and have yours tried i would recommend finding a near by brew club at least you'll be able to try some peoples beers then you can judge how yours stacks up
 
Well I did it. Without any pre-reviews I jumped feet first into a competition. Earlier today I shipped off four beers to the upper mississipps mashout:
New Brewer Category gravity above 1.060
Paddy Wagon Porter - a robust porter aged on paddy irish whiskey soaked oak cubes.
New Brewer Category gravity below 1.060
Feedbag Oat Stout - a tweaked version of JZ's recipe
Category 8B - Best/Premium Bitter
Cobbler's Best - An attempt at a bass ale clone that ended up with a little maltier
Category 14B - American IPA
EightEnd IPA - Based on BierMunchers OuterLimits with lower grav. and aromatic instead of vs honey malt.

I'll post my comments here when I get them. In the mean time I wouldn't mind sending one or two out to a more experienced member for some feedback. PM me if you're interested.
 
GreenwoodRover said:
Well I did it...Earlier today I shipped off four beers to the upper mississipps mashout...
Click to expand...

Good luck.

Regardless of the scores and ultimate outcome, getting some feedback will help you. If you still have a couple bottles of each I'd suggest this:

1) On the day of judging, pull your bottles out and get a BJCP score sheet and Guidelines printout and give your beers an objective judging. Let the beers warm up a bit first. I know many competitions, the beers will be sitting out at room temp for several hours. Most judges want the beers warmer (especially the styles you submitted) so that the flavors and aroma aren't masked by the cold.

2) When you get the score sheets back, pull another bottle out and see if you can detect what they detected.
 

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