Keeping a used keg (Iowa)

Okay so I really want to start piecing together a single tier brewstand and need some kegs to make the keggles. I see them on various sites, occasionally, for $50, but couldn't I just buy a keg of swill, feed the hogs and keep the keg for the $30 deposit? It seems too logical. Also in Iowa we now have to register kegs, mainly for underagers caught with a keg, so your information is in their records. I tried searching, but to no avail.

There are dozens of threads on this. I believe the consensus is that what you're doing is known as "stealing".

The kegs are legally the property of the distributor/brewery and the $30 is an incentive for you to abide the law and bring it back. You are not purchasing the keg for $30.

Not passing moral judgment, just stating the facts as I understand them.

-Joe

Do us all a favor first.....Go to here and search. I'm not hoping to disassuade you or be mean, but this issue is a dead horse that can easily be solved.

I did search, but the search function only takes single words and as you would imagine "keg" is a pretty common term used around here...

I completely understand the debate of stealing after I did a google search and got a few results. The only thing that I would counter it with is why can't you return a keg after a certain date. It is "stealing" if I don't return the keg, but at some point they "confiscate" my deposit...irony....

AMERICUS said:

I completely understand the debate of stealing after I did a google search and got a few results. The only thing that I would counter it with is why can't you return a keg after a certain date. It is "stealing" if I don't return the keg, but at some point they "confiscate" my deposit...irony....

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I don't think it's ironic at all. If you keep the keg longer than their specified time they lose money, as they need kegs for other people. So they keep your deposit. You still have kept and stolen their property.

-Joe

AMERICUS said:

I did search, but the search function only takes single words and as you would imagine "keg" is a pretty common term used around here...

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Not sure this is entirely correct. I search using multiple words all the time and don't have an issue with it. For example, searching Keg Ethics brings up a bunch of the threads on the subject.

As you can imagine by now, it's a pretty touchy subject on the boards. If you're looking for a legit way of purchasing a used keg try contacting local breweries and asking if they have any they are retiring. That's how I got mine.

Yeah I was typing "keeping a keg deposit" hoping to trigger something. After digging through a few threads, I found links to the heart of the ethics. I am actually good friends with the owner of a bar here in town and will talk to her and see what she does when kegs are rejected. Probably get it for less than the deposit I would pay for swill anyways.

AMERICUS said:

Yeah I was typing "keeping a keg deposit" hoping to trigger something. After digging through a few threads, I found links to the heart of the ethics. I am actually good friends with the owner of a bar here in town and will talk to her and see what she does when kegs are rejected. Probably get it for less than the deposit I would pay for swill anyways.

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That's a good plan. Orphan kegs need good homes too.

Another option is to call your local distributor and see what they have available.

I'll play.
From corresponding with AB, this is how the system works, as near as I can figure.
So, AB, Coors, Miller has X number of kegs built by Company A. After some period of time, presuming they aren't wrecked during normal service, they are inspected. At some point, someone decides that it is time to replace the keg. They sell it to a third party vendor, (e.g. Sabco). Said Vendor refurbishes the keg, makes the mods and sells them used ~$130.00.
I've read a lot of threads around this and most of the people say that it cost much more than $30.00 for AB to buy the keg. But, I've never seen anyone that really knows, post a price. Is this a fact or an opinion? Let's do the math.
I was paying $1.00 a pound for scrap 300 series steel. (I realize that they don't use scrap I am only using that for a starting point). So, a keg weighs ~ 27 - 30lbs
The Welders on here vary the price a lot but the quotes I got said from $20 to $70.
Couplings off eBay for 10, $15, so for 2 $3.00.
For a rough total of $75
Now, everyone in the chain has to make a living, so what's the mark up? I would like for someone "in the business" of dealing with the keg industry step in and give us a price. I am not advocating keeping kegs. I just want to know the facts. That will give us all a better bargaining position.
As we are all aware, this board is notorious for stating belief as fact and on occasion, attacking different/new ideas. If someone has posted a price, I appologize for missing it, but apparently, several others did too, and maybe it can be reposted. Let's frolic - Dwain

This will cost more, but i just bought one here

15.5 Homebrew Kettle With One Weld Half Barrel

Ordered it after 5:00pm on a Wednesday, got it on Tuesday morning.

Brad

Dwain said:

I'll play.
I've read a lot of threads around this and most of the people say that it cost much more than $30.00 for AB to buy the keg. But, I've never seen anyone that really knows, post a price. Is this a fact or an opinion? Let's do the math.

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I spoke face to face with the facilities manager at a large brewer recently. We discussed Kegs - they pay more than $100 per keg with name embossed on it. It is pretty much a fact unless for some strange reason he wanted to lie about it.

Then there is this Rising metal prices spur keg thefts and leave craft brewers tapped out - Puget Sound Business Journal (Seattle):

Removed - Duplicate

I'm sure that he/she would have no reason to lie. So, I wonder how much the name is? Also, Im going to start researching where to get new kegs from and what the minmum order is (I don't suppose ya'll talked about that?). I have no problem flogging a dead cayuse. Any ideas names/numbers would be appreciated. - Dwain

[Take Seattle-based Georgetown Brewing Co. Founded in 2002 by Manny Chao and Roger Bialous, Georgetown paid just $45 apiece for the 500 used kegs it needed to get up and running, while new kegs carried a price of around $85. /QUOTE]
Maybe a good place to start

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If you contact a local distributor or large liquor store, they usually have old kegs that don't seal or have other problems that they sell. I have heard the going price around here is around $30.

If you really want to know the exact price of a new keg, call these guys http://www.schaeferkegs.com/.

I know from talking to professional brewers that over the years, new kegs cost between $90 and $150. This does not even count shipping or other hassles associated with replacing stolen or lost kegs.

I know that when SS prices went up and many kegs went missing for their scrap value some smaller brewers were not able to get kegs in a timely manner because all of the big brewers have huge standing orders and were first in line.

In many states the deposit price is regulated and kept artificially low.

Most keg sales are in the primary market, that is from keg manufacturers to brewers. In the case of corny kegs, most sales are in the secondary market, that is from keg retails to the consumer.

Do a search on ebay and note how many corny kegs were available vs sankey.


PedalBiker is on this site: Here is a thread showing how much he is selling used sankeys to pro breweries:
http://www.probrewer.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=13718

40 1/2 bbl straight side sankey kegs in very nice condition went for $90.00 in 2 days just one month ago.

What does that tell you about the price of kegs, especially new ones?

I think all discussion about the acquisition, legality and ethics of sanke kegs should be instantly merged into a single thread.. and stickied.

Incidentally, I just read Randy Mosher's Tasting beer. He explicitly says not to consider a deposit a bill of sale.

It's funny that he should have to say that in his book. By funny I mean sad.

If you really want to know the exact price of a new keg, call these guys Schaefer Kegs, beer kegs, wine kegs, soda kegs, caps, beer backpack dispensers,.

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Since I really wanted to know, I called them. I talked with Richard. I asked about 10 kegs with NO INTERNALS. $130 ea. + shipping. They ship out of Buffalon NY and he said to Texas, just guessing $5-$7 ea. These are new kegs. - Dwain

Deposit on kegs tripled | The Michigan Daily

Because of state legislation effective May 11, collecting funds for a keg is $20 harder.

The Michigan Liquor Control Commission increased the security deposit stores that sell kegs of beer pay to beer companies for each keg they rent from $10 to $30 - an expense that most local party stores will pass on to customers.

The legislation was spurred by pressure from large breweries like Anheuser-Busch that lose far more than $30 when a keg is not returned.

"The current cost of a new keg to us is $152," said Larry Bell, president of Bell's Brewery in Kalamazoo.

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Story is from May 28th, 2007, but should still be fairly accurate. I'd imagine $20 for stamping the brand on the keg is not out of question.

Just keep the keg for $30 dollars. If you make one post to argue that's it's okay, then your personal opinion is that it's okay. That's what matters in these discussions. What you personally think. The police are not going to come get you over a $30 deposit and keg. Cut the top off and use it.

Dwain said:

Since I really wanted to know, I called them. I talked with Richard. I asked about 10 kegs with NO INTERNALS. $130 ea. + shipping. They ship out of Buffalon NY and he said to Texas, just guessing $5-$7 ea. These are new kegs. - Dwain

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At the same time I think $130 is decent price for a 15G SS Pot. It does require some labor though.

IrregularPulse said:

Just keep the keg for $30 dollars. If you make one post to argue that's it's okay, then your personal opinion is that it's okay. That's what matters in these discussions. What you personally think. The police are not going to come get you over a $30 deposit and keg. Cut the top off and use it.

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In the UK the police can. Let's not set that precedent here in the states.

We all follow the same argument being used and soon the deposit will be $150 per keg. Makes it harder for teens to raise keg funds.

If you plan on returning the keg then who cares if the deposit is $300 dollars! You're going to get it back. If you don't have $300 bucks sitting in a bank account to front for a weekend, you probably shouldn't be spending $70-$100 on a keg of beer anyway. And making it harder for teens to get beer money. There's another Plus.

My main point was that people already have their minds made up one way or the other on this kind of dilemma when they create these threas, and are just looking for validation.

I may be blowing smoke, but I had assumed the reason states get involved with setting the deposit price is that they don't want a price prohibitive deposit infringing on their potential alcohol tax income. The outlay of a $100 deposit on the keg makes the cost of beer seem high even though you get it back.

Bobby_M said:

I may be blowing smoke, but I had assumed the reason states get involved with setting the deposit price is that they don't want a price prohibitive deposit infringing on their potential alcohol tax income. The outlay of a $100 deposit on the keg makes the cost of beer seem high even though you get it back.

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That's been the case historically.

Recently there has been movements in some states to increase it as a deterrent to underage / college drinking. Yea, I know, the neo-prohibitionists like to play the "do it for the children" card.