"spicing up" a west coast pale ale

Greetings, about to boil up my third ever batch tonight, a WCPA, but looking for suggestions to make it a little more interesting. My first batch was an IPA that has finally spent 3 weeks in bottles, but it tastes more like a pale ale to me, so I was hoping to 'spice' this one up tonight so its not so similar. Xtract kits were all from abs.

Was thinking either spiced for the holidays, fruity, or possibly white chocolate. Right now I'm leaning towards about 3 lbs of blueberries in the secondary, but thats kind of expensive and I would really like to hear any other suggestions.

Thanks for any suggestions!

cheers, andy

Which spiced or fruit beers have you enjoyed the most?

Hey! funny bumping into you here... Glad to see you round these parts. You will like it here. Great advice ans some killer recipes. some of these guys brew a ton more than I could ever imagine and most people that I have met think I am obsessed.

Good luck with the APA. You already know how I feel so I won't chime in.

You can get "spice" through means other than literal spices; certain varities of hops are described as being spicy, Saaz is one classic example but there are others. You can load up and do some big late hop additions to really bring out some fresh flavors and aromas from the hops, if you're looking to kick it in that direction.

Rye is also know for adding a spice to a beer. I have never used it though.

Beerrific said:

Rye is also know for adding a spice to a beer. I have never used it though.

Click to expand...

MMmm love the rye! I might have to brew up a rye heff with corriander and orange peel. YUM!

I have not tasted any homebrewed fruit beers. Have tried great divide raspberry and thought that was ok. Never tried a blueberry actually. My brewing buddy did a 'novemberfest' with cinnamon and cloves i think, but that was an october base and that was pretty good. So to answer you question, not many. I guess I am even starting to wonder if an american pale ale is a good backbone for a spiced or fruity beer...?

With rye malt, it needs to be mashed (not hard to do a partial mash); I'm not sure about flaked rye.

Fruit beers typically have an American Wheat (pretty bland on its own) as the backbone. Spiced beers will often be darker and maltier.

the_bird said:

You can get "spice" through means other than literal spices; certain varities of hops are described as being spicy, Saaz is one classic example but there are others. You can load up and do some big late hop additions to really bring out some fresh flavors and aromas from the hops, if you're looking to kick it in that direction.

Click to expand...

Now I like the thought of that, although remember I am working with a basic extract kit. My first IPA did not involve dry hopping regrettably, but perhaps I could try it with this batch!? Any further advice on this would be welcomed.

Back up a second.

Describe to us the kind of beer you'd really like to make, and we'll try and get you there.

Well considering my IPA taste like an elegant, even somehwhat watered down, PA to me, I would like to make a something that will be super hoppy but, with a unique sweetness or fruitiness at the end. (Perhaps I added too much water to the wort).
Oh yeah, budget is a factor.

what is your recipe so far? can you list the ingredients and schedule of the kit you already bought? We can go from there...

yep, I'll be home from work in 15min. report back then.

You can add all kinds of things, fruit puree works fairly well, but I think a nice way to add a little extra "spice" is to use some extracts, at bottling / kegging time, you can add them to taste to get just the right amount. This applies to all kinds of extracts, even store bought vanilla extract.

If you want to make your own extracts, just soak whatever it is that you are trying to get flavor out of in some grain alcohol like vodka or rum for a couple weeks and add it at bottling time. I have done this with coffee and with peppers, the coffee worked much better than the peppers.

Also anything sweet you add will mostly ferment, if you want a sweet aftertaste you are looking for something along the lines of lactose. You might want to look into the famed carmel cream ale that is often talked about on this board.

You like citrusy notes in your pale ales? West coast pale ales are known for being citrusy, sometimes with some piney flavors.

Citrus is definitely ok with me.

malt:
3.5lb pale extract
3.5 lb extra pale extrace

grans:
1/2lb crystal 60L
1/2lb 2-row

hops:
3 0z cascade

That's not a bad starting point. Are those dry or liquid extracts?

I don't have my software here, but I can play with some numbers tonight. Cascade's a great, very flavorful, classic "domestic" flavored hop. What you could do is use something else for bittering (another couple ounces of hops is a couple bucks), then concentrate the Cascade additions in the last ten or fifteen minutes to bring out some of their great flavor. Maybe hold back a half-ounce or so to dry hop with (that'll lend some aroma).

Oh, another thing. I'm assuming you're doing partial boils. If you hold off on adding some of the extract (maybe half) until the last ten minutes of the boil, you'll get a bit more utilization out of the hops and end up with a lighter beer. How many gallons have you been boiling?

Liquid malt extracts....well syrupy i would say.

Boiling 2.5 gal.

the last ten minutes... Like right when I'm adding hops?

Looks like a normal apa to me. I would rid the 2 row and add .75# of Crystal 60 for flavor and .25 # of flaked oats for mouth feel. 3 oz of cascade (5.5% AA) at 60min would give you a solid 52 IBUs for a nice citrusy bite. But you would also want to add 1-2 oz at FO or DH into secondary for floral aroma. You should start near an OG of 1.056 and end up with an FG of 1.015 for abv near 5.5%.

Do you have any of those numbers from your brew?

You can add oak chips to the secondary. You can add spices to like jasmine, juniper, corriander, cardimom, orange peel (sweet and/or bitter), cinnimon or anything you wish, really! Whatever your heart desires. However when adding these spices to the boil be careful not to go overboard. Once they are in you cannot get them out. If you want to add fruit you can for the whole batch by adding puree (fresh or canned) to the secondary. Or if you would like just for a portion of your batch to be flavored add extract flavoring at bottling time to the part of the batch you bottle last.

Or you can simply adhere to reinhietsgebot and use simply hops to spice your brew up. Read about hops and their characteristics on-line or in this forum do a search and you should find plenty of information on them.

Good luck!

- WW

Correction:

Since you are boiling only 2.5 gals your hop utilization had dropped. Here is what I recommend to get it back to a nice "grapefruity" bite.

3oz Cascade (5.5%AA) at 60 min
3oz Cascade (5.5%AA) at 30 min
2oz Cascade (5.5%AA) at Flame Out (FO)

Total IBUs = 50.6

- WW

Wow, thank you for a most educational and well thought out reply.

The recipe suggests

OG: 1.050
FG: 1.014

my thoughts: ...thats a lot of hops!

flagrant noob question: what is flame out?

edit to say: chococherry bourbon porter sounds just divine.

your flame out hops are added as you shut off the heat and steep while you chill.

you can never have too much hops my friend...

I'd grab some Amarillo hops for some flavor additions. I tend to do hop additions on a beer like this at 60, 15, 5, 0 (flameout), and dryhop; I figure with the 30 addition, there's not much flavor left but I'm not getting all the bitterness, so why bother? I'd rather do that addition either earlier (more bitterness) or later (more residual flavor).

Take a look at my Murder In The Red Barn recipe for a lot of hops!

to be perfectly honest with you guys, I am probably gonna have to settle for 3oz hops in the boil. No LHS in charleston to get any one short notice, and we are brewing either tonight after I bottle the porter or tomorrow afternoon.

but possibility of dry hopping in the secondary is still open since we are about to place another massive order with AHS.

side note: as if leaving work on a friday afternoon isn't nice already, I scored two 6.5 gal carboys with handles from lab tech at my job. He was fermenting soy/animal proteins and yeast to make organic fertilizer, these jugs don't know what theyve been missing! he actually got them from ebrew too.

the_bird said:

I'd grab some Amarillo hops for some flavor additions. I tend to do hop additions on a beer like this at 60, 15, 5, 0 (flameout), and dryhop; I figure with the 30 addition, there's not much flavor left but I'm not getting all the bitterness, so why bother? I'd rather do that addition either earlier (more bitterness) or later (more residual flavor).

Take a look at my Murder In The Red Barn recipe for a lot of hops!

Click to expand...

You are right about the 30 addition. I just figured I'd be standard. I never really knew why they ask for a 30 addition in the first place. Middle of road in everything. You paid for the hops why not use them as best as they can be used. I was also aiming for 50 IBUs or so and that was the easiest method. Here is one I used (mine was all Cascade (doubled amt) but Amarillo works just as nice):

1.50 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (60 min) Hops 22.1 IBU
1.50 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (60 min) Hops 14.3 IBU

1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (15 min) Hops 7.3 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (15 min) Hops 4.7 IBU

1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -

Total IBUs for this = 48.5 which is aweful nice and smooth.

- WW

Thanks for the suggestions. I am about to brew right now, going to use all my hopes at 60 and 15 minutes and then order another 2 onces of amarillo/cascade to dry hop. My only question: what kind of hops should I get for dry hopping, pellitized or 'leaf hops' http://www.austinhomebrew.com/index.php?cPath=178_21_93_94

ABS has both, so just wondering what I need and also if I need to take any steps to avoid contamination adding hops into the secondary. thanks!

palmettobum said:

Thanks for the suggestions. I am about to brew right now, going to use all my hopes at 60 and 15 minutes and then order another 2 onces of amarillo/cascade to dry hop. My only question: what kind of hops should I get for dry hopping, pellitized or 'leaf hops' http://www.austinhomebrew.com/index.php?cPath=178_21_93_94

ABS has both, so just wondering what I need and also if I need to take any steps to avoid contamination adding hops into the secondary. thanks!

Click to expand...

I dry hop (DH) with whole leaves but many others DH with pellets and plugs. I am not too worried about having the leaves floating in my beer because my syphoning extracts them as the beer enters the bottling stage. However, there are bags that can be used as well as strainers. You can purchase them from on-line or at your lhbs.

Again to each his own. As far as contamination I usually just place the hops directly in the beer without any issues (thus far).

- WW:rockin: