Alchemist said:
I think that is probably a disaster waiting to happen.
If the heat source doesn't break the glass directly, the increased pressure in the sealed carboy probably would.
If you try this, let us know how it goes.
bleach in homebrewing
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I think that is probably a disaster waiting to happen.
If the heat source doesn't break the glass directly, the increased pressure in the sealed carboy probably would.
If you try this, let us know how it goes.
Ivan Lendl
Well-Known Member
Alchemist said:
ive done this in the past: i boiled about 3 G. h20 the night before b-day, then cooled it in an ice bath and put it into a sanitized carboy.
It works but its a PITA!!!
(ive since stopped worrying about fill-up water, it comes outta my tap nice and very microbe-less, and you cant boil off chloramine like you can chlorine so i stopped)
Bjorn Borg said:
I think you missed the DANGER sign, Bjorn. He wants to boil water IN the carboy directly.
-walker
Ivan Lendl
Well-Known Member
Imperial Walker said:
oh..well thats just silly then aint it?
I don't know. Is it silly, or am I just being overly cautious?
I don't mean to dog the Alchemist, please don't take it that way.
The whole thing sounds very dangerous to me, and I'd hate to see you seriously hurt yourself trying something like that.
If it were possible to put a carboy directly onto a heat source and achieve boiling temps, I'm sure there would be people out there that didn't even use a kettle and did everything in the carboy directly.
-walker
I don't mean to dog the Alchemist, please don't take it that way.
The whole thing sounds very dangerous to me, and I'd hate to see you seriously hurt yourself trying something like that.
If it were possible to put a carboy directly onto a heat source and achieve boiling temps, I'm sure there would be people out there that didn't even use a kettle and did everything in the carboy directly.
-walker
El Pistolero
Well-Known Member
Isn't a carboy pretty much just a big pyrex flask? I don't see any problem with boiling water in it...in fact, why not just do it in your microwave...24 minutes on high ought to do it just fine.Imperial Walker said:
Ivan Lendl
Well-Known Member
Yeah like a GIANT flask? If Pyrex made carboys that would be sweet!
I doubt your everyday-run-of-the-mill-carboy can withstand that kind of treatment though...(with all due respect)
I doubt your everyday-run-of-the-mill-carboy can withstand that kind of treatment though...(with all due respect)
El Pistolero said:Isn't a carboy pretty much just a big pyrex flask? I don't see any problem with boiling water in it...in fact, why not just do it in your microwave...24 minutes on high ought to do it just fine.
someone's going to lose an eye if they don't catch your sarcasm, EP.
I hesitate to respond to allow this thread to grow more but what the heck. Someone on page 329 of this thread asked about a discussion with Dr Iodophor . Some micro-biologist dude. It is a good read for those inclined to rinse your iodophor sanitized stuff. Also, the correct amt to use.
http://www.bayareamashers.org/content/maindocs/iodophor.htm
Oh yea, both Iodophor & O'Doyle rule! :rockin:
. Some micro-biologist dude. It is a good read for those inclined to rinse your iodophor sanitized stuff. Also, the correct amt to use.http://www.bayareamashers.org/content/maindocs/iodophor.htm
Oh yea, both Iodophor & O'Doyle rule! :rockin:
I was thinking more double boiler style - big metal tub w/ some kind of stand off so the carboy isn't sitting directly on the heat source. I might just be crazy though, contamination paranoia comes quickly and surprises you at the place where I make my beer money.
it might be possible, but.... I'm still not going to try it.
You certainly would not want to SEAL the carboy when doing this. I gather you are a chemist? Boyle's and Charles's laws should be enough to convince you that a 142°F temperature increase with a fixed gas volume means that pressure is going to go WAY the hell up.... BOOOOOM!
You certainly would not want to SEAL the carboy when doing this. I gather you are a chemist? Boyle's and Charles's laws should be enough to convince you that a 142°F temperature increase with a fixed gas volume means that pressure is going to go WAY the hell up.... BOOOOOM!
Ivan Lendl
Well-Known Member
You dont have to seal it, just use a foam stopper. They let air out, but act like a filter keeping nasties out...
I am, and my personal mantra for trying anything new is plan, revise, double check, revise, triple check, revise, get a second opinion, revise, get a third opinion, revise, go home, revise, have a beer, revise, sleep on it, scrap the whole thing, start again...
I'm just wanted to bounce that one off somebody before I tried anything. I'm also kinda used to having real high pressure high temp equipment, so I guess I'll just end up listening to the wife and leaving work at work.
I'm just wanted to bounce that one off somebody before I tried anything. I'm also kinda used to having real high pressure high temp equipment, so I guess I'll just end up listening to the wife and leaving work at work.
El Pistolero
Well-Known Member
I have a similar personal mantra..."Hey Mikey...come over here and try this."Alchemist said:
Darth Konvel
Well-Known Member
I don't imagine your ordinary carboy is rated for high temp or high pressure use. Just filling the things with hot water to clean them kind of scares me.
For the UK Homebrewer who was after (an) Iodophor. It can be purchased at your chemist as 'Standardised Betadine Antiseptic Solution (Aqueous)', they may have to order it in. It should cost around £3.50 for 500 ml
A no rinse solution of 12.5-25ppm can be made up by adding 1/4-1/2 tsp to 1 litre of water. This may differ from BTF (or whatever) but is the correct concentration for this brand.It requires a 10min contact time.
Exceeding the concentration actually reduces its effectiveness so there is no point increasing the dose in the hope of killing the bugs more quickly, it doesnt work like that.
If you havent got a chemist near by pop into your nearest supermarket and get a 'value' thin unscented bleach. Fill your fermenter up with cold water and add 1/2 cup of bleach and give all your equipment a 20 min soak. At that concentration and for that duration even stainless steel will be safe. Rinse well with cold water.
Thats just as effective for HB purposes, in my experience there is no need to worry about the level of bacteria in the UKmains water supply, thousands of brewers use it to rinse without any problems.
A no rinse solution of 12.5-25ppm can be made up by adding 1/4-1/2 tsp to 1 litre of water. This may differ from BTF (or whatever) but is the correct concentration for this brand.It requires a 10min contact time.
Exceeding the concentration actually reduces its effectiveness so there is no point increasing the dose in the hope of killing the bugs more quickly, it doesnt work like that.
If you havent got a chemist near by pop into your nearest supermarket and get a 'value' thin unscented bleach. Fill your fermenter up with cold water and add 1/2 cup of bleach and give all your equipment a 20 min soak. At that concentration and for that duration even stainless steel will be safe. Rinse well with cold water.
Thats just as effective for HB purposes, in my experience there is no need to worry about the level of bacteria in the UKmains water supply, thousands of brewers use it to rinse without any problems.
As I'm sure you know, rapidly heating or cooling glass will cause it to shatter.. perhaps slowly heating in a water bath using a false bottom to keep it off the heat source would work but that seems like a lot of work, wasted water, wasted propane, wasted time, etc. Why not just use a no rinse sanitizer.. if there was a better way to sanitize the carboys & top up water simultaneously using heat then I'm sure people would be doing it.
You'd also have to wait for that thing to cool back down to room temp (preferably below) and putting it in an ice bath seems like a bad idea. Hot water inside + cold water outside = shattered carboy... You'd have to put it in the fridge I guess.. I don't know about you but there sure isn't space in my fridge for a 6.5 gal carboy.
Here's what I'd do.. sanitize the carboy with no rinse.. sanitize a large tupperware container or two (one with a tight fitting lid).. boil your top up water and add it to the container, seal it, and freeze it. Then throw your sanitary ice block in the wort to cool it and use an ice bath or chiller while you're at it.
Of course, you could also experiment with campden tabs.. sodium metabisulfite.
You'd also have to wait for that thing to cool back down to room temp (preferably below) and putting it in an ice bath seems like a bad idea. Hot water inside + cold water outside = shattered carboy... You'd have to put it in the fridge I guess.. I don't know about you but there sure isn't space in my fridge for a 6.5 gal carboy.
Here's what I'd do.. sanitize the carboy with no rinse.. sanitize a large tupperware container or two (one with a tight fitting lid).. boil your top up water and add it to the container, seal it, and freeze it. Then throw your sanitary ice block in the wort to cool it and use an ice bath or chiller while you're at it.
Of course, you could also experiment with campden tabs.. sodium metabisulfite.
boo boo
Well-Known Member
If you want to get rid of the chlorine smell/residue of bleach, then you need to rinse well with HOT water not cold water. The heat breaks down the chlorine in the bleach.
Unless you specificaly boil your hot water, there is little point rinsing with hot tap water as in most UK households it it will have been held in a header tank for some period of time and the level of bacteria "can" be unacceptable for home brewing purposes. It is unlikely that hot water system temperatures will kill off this bacteria.
Solutions made with Thin bleach dilute adequately in cold water and can be EASILY rinsed with COLD water removing all dectable traces, provided a suitable dilition has used, bearing in mind that tap water contains chlorine anyway.
Sodium metabisulphite whilst ok for wine making isnt really suitable for steralising when it comes to beer making. For the terminaly paranoid, it can be used as a rinse solution for containers that have been steralised with bleach as it is itself no a rinse substance and it neutralizes chlorine and chloromine.
The dillution is 5ml in 1 pint of hot water, it can be used several times over and is handy for keeping equipment sweet for a few days after it has been previously sanitised by a more suitable product.
Solutions made with Thin bleach dilute adequately in cold water and can be EASILY rinsed with COLD water removing all dectable traces, provided a suitable dilition has used, bearing in mind that tap water contains chlorine anyway.
Sodium metabisulphite whilst ok for wine making isnt really suitable for steralising when it comes to beer making. For the terminaly paranoid, it can be used as a rinse solution for containers that have been steralised with bleach as it is itself no a rinse substance and it neutralizes chlorine and chloromine.
The dillution is 5ml in 1 pint of hot water, it can be used several times over and is handy for keeping equipment sweet for a few days after it has been previously sanitised by a more suitable product.
boo boo
Well-Known Member
BTW, I recommend bleach only for cleaning, not for sanitizing. I use star-san for sanitizing.
the only time i use bleach now is if i get some bottles back from my buds and they have neglected my admonishments on rinsing out the bottles and the crud starts growing in the bottom of the returns. but after a couple days soak in a strong bleach bath i still soak in starsan b4 using anything.
a good way to rinse bottles is get yourself one of these:
a good way to rinse bottles is get yourself one of these:
Glibbidy
Well-Known Member
brewhead said:the only time i use bleach now is if i get some bottles back from my buds and they have neglected my admonishments on rinsing out the bottles and the crud starts growing in the bottom of the returns. but after a couple days soak in a strong bleach bath i still soak in starsan b4 using anything.
a good way to rinse bottles is get yourself one of these:
These are also really good at rinsing out carboys as well.
Found:
Lakefront Brewery, Milwaukee, WI (a top notch Micro)...
Discuss...
Lakefront Brewery, Milwaukee, WI (a top notch Micro)...
Discuss...
I've seen bleach at both Lakefront Brewery and Sprecher Brewery (and I think Brewmaster's pub in Kenosha, WI.)
Answer, how the heck else do you clean the floor and get a nice "clean" smell for the masses that tromp around your beloved floor daily?
Not using bleach again if I can help it...ok, except for my floors, counters, countertops, etc.
Answer, how the heck else do you clean the floor and get a nice "clean" smell for the masses that tromp around your beloved floor daily?
Not using bleach again if I can help it...ok, except for my floors, counters, countertops, etc.
loopmd
Well-Known Member
Baron von BeeGee said:You're not a real homebrewer if you use bleach.
Don't be a dick and say things like "You're not a real homebrewer.......oh, wait. It's like deja vu all over again!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Bleach is good for washing their lab coats, scrubbing the toilet and it keeps the floor at a very high standard of cleanliness
alemonkey
Well-Known Member
Maybe they use it to get the skid marks out of their chonies after a night of heavy drinking
sorry, that's just disgusting.
sorry, that's just disgusting.
kornkob
Resident Crazy Uncle
Bleach used in the proper proportions is a perfectly servicable sanitizer that has been used by homebrewers for decades.
kornkob said:
Very true but why use it when there is no need anymore? Not properly rinsing Bleach from your stuff can ruin your beer I know this from experience.
kornkob
Resident Crazy Uncle
Not 'properly' using any cleanser or sanitizer will ruin beer. Proper use of a sanitizer has to be assumed when one is talking about sanitation or every conversation will instantly be derailed by the various 'what ifs' that can be cooked up.
And you do not have to rinse bleach used in the proper concentration.
Why use it? Homebrewers who feel they're on 'a budget' with their hobby find it easier to slip a coupel tablespoons out of bleach already on hand (often purchased for a little more than $1 a gallon) than it is to buy a separate 'dedicated' chemical.
And you do not have to rinse bleach used in the proper concentration.
Why use it? Homebrewers who feel they're on 'a budget' with their hobby find it easier to slip a coupel tablespoons out of bleach already on hand (often purchased for a little more than $1 a gallon) than it is to buy a separate 'dedicated' chemical.
Beer Snob
Well-Known Member
You know what I find more interesting then bleach..... that something as completly uninteresting as bleach is could take up 12 pages, 114 posts and get over 2,700 hits. That to me is real interesting actually..... I'm guessing we are getting bored.
jcarson83
Well-Known Member
sudsmonkey said:
Bleach can cause problems with stainless in high concentrations but not with any sort of solution you would be sanitizing with.
I use star-san. No rinse and not that expensive. It doesn't get much easier than that.
