Russian River Brewing Sucks

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passedpawn said:
Vinnie sent me this email. This should seal this particular issue:

Andrew,
...

You're also an Andrew? No wonder I like you despite the fact that you're an azzholio ;)

Good grief Troll World is back. The last time he/she was on here she started a thread about how bad Americans suck, and another rant about how nobody pours a beer correctly.
 
I read the first few pages yesterday, left, now I'm back and this has turned into a real ****-slinging fest. Hopefully this thread will be moderated, because not only was the OP wrong according to Vinnie's response posted a few messages before mine, but this kind of negativity and bull**** just doesn't belong on this forum. I'd expect something like this on that other forum that encourages the Advocacy of Beer, but not here.
 
I guess DDT is only safe to use when your other options include death by malaria

banned from agricultural use world wide just smacks safety doesn't it
 
I guess DDT is only safe to use when your other options include death by malaria

banned from agricultural use world wide just smacks safety doesn't it

As I stated previously, I didn't expect to change your mind and I can see I haven't. That's fine, I just hope I might have opened a few others' eyes to the side of the story they don't usually see.
 
I heard that RR sells their malt into slave labor to offset some of their cost. Only when they've worked in the fields and sweat shops do they get to be ground up and made into beer.

Seriously, I heard it on the interwebs. There's no denying it.
 
not being able to afford organics and not supporting organics are two entirely different things


but people claiming that gmo "saved the world" or "are just as tasty"
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

live for 1 day on feeding yourself nothing but super potent chemically derived vitamins. Wash it down with something that will kill all of the living organisms in your gut then tell me how there were absolutely no effects.

then keep ramping you dosages up and up and up for 60 years... real healthy right.

for those of you who are unaware there are other things growing in the soil besides plants that our earth needs to function.

not to even mention the unknown long term effects of such farming practices.

we test drugs very very very thoroughly but do we test such pesticides/fertilizers...yes but only to make sure they grow things and or kill the bad stuff because well you know who gives a **** right?

You come off as even less well informed than the (trolling) OP.
 
I heard that RR sells their malt into slave labor to offset some of their cost. Only when they've worked in the fields and sweat shops do they get to be ground up and made into beer.

And they use child labor to clean and scrub their fermenters after every batch. 5-10 years old. Think of the children. THINK OF THE CHILDREN DAMNIT!
 
I can't get RR here in Old El Paso, and since they don't even grow GMO brewing grain this entire thread is irrelevant to me. With that said, I still enjoy sitting back and watching an outraged lynch mob with my beer and whiskey in hand. Hella good entertainment on a Friday night! :mug:
 
An organic pint of RR would likely cost $6 each for normal beers just by going to organic malts, likely more if you went all organic hops.
H.U.B. manages an all organic tap list and menu without that extra cost to the consumer. Even their painted bombers are less than that in the grocery store.
 
Mongrel said:
H.U.B. manages an all organic tap list and menu without that extra cost to the consumer. Even their painted bombers are less than that in the grocery store.

My local organic brewpub makes and sells their beer for a quarter more a pint. The thing I am noticing with the H.U.B brews is that they are all moderate alcohol and moderately hopped beers. In other words they are not that expensive to make, even using organic ingredients. RR beers by comparison are probably significantly more costly to make even using conventionally grown ingredients. A lot goes into RR beers. And they are also enjoying some well deserved recognition because they are one of the best if not the best brewpubs in the country. I don't see anything wrong with their prices at all.
 
Vinnie sent me this email. This should seal this particular issue:


Andrew,

Thanks for the email, the malts we use are not GMO...

What web site is the debate going? I’d be curious to read some of the consumer comments...

Take care,

Vinnie

Thanks for posting this! Great to hear from the brewer/owner himself. As in most things, we can speculate all we want, but we clearly don't have all the info. Best to go directly to the source. Thanks.

Your next task is to get Vinnie posting here ;)
 
My local organic brewpub makes and sells their beer for a quarter more a pint. The thing I am noticing with the H.U.B brews is that they are all moderate alcohol and moderately hopped beers. In other words they are not that expensive to make, even using organic ingredients. RR beers by comparison are probably significantly more costly to make even using conventionally grown ingredients. A lot goes into RR beers. And they are also enjoying some well deserved recognition because they are one of the best if not the best brewpubs in the country. I don't see anything wrong with their prices at all.

Welcome to the thread from hell:D We have already established:

1. There is no Brewers GM Barley available period.
2. RR makes kickazz beer and the brewpub prices are dirt cheap in comparison to pretty much everywhere else.
3. The OP was trolling, which worked very well considering the size of this thread.
 
I think Cargill malts should not be used under any circumstance...I saw with my own eyes a bag of Cargill malts labled for use on a particular belgian ale at the Russian River Brewery.

If we are going to push for a craft beer market we've got to demand ethical ingredients. Cargill is not a supporter of organic farms or ethical meat production. Cargill basically rules the earths food supply system...causing starvation based on holding supplies.

Cargill can afford to price local farmers out of the market or force them to essentially sharecrop for next to nothing.

Although Russian River might not use GMO grain...the Cargill products they do use are heavily supported by big time agriculture thugs.

It's great to see Vinnie caring...I hope he will do some research and speak with local organic farmers about the ethics of Cargill. He might be in for a big surprise.
 
OldWorld said:
They use cargill GMO malts in the belgian beers. Yet they charge a premium for them.

Screw em...

OldWorld said:
Although Russian River might not use GMO grain...
Well I think we've seen enough here.
 
I think Cargill malts should not be used under any circumstance...I saw with my own eyes a bag of Cargill malts labled for use on a particular belgian ale at the Russian River Brewery.

If we are going to push for a craft beer market we've got to demand ethical ingredients. Cargill is not a supporter of organic farms or ethical meat production. Cargill basically rules the earths food supply system...causing starvation based on holding supplies.

Cargill can afford to price local farmers out of the market or force them to essentially sharecrop for next to nothing.

Although Russian River might not use GMO grain...the Cargill products they do use are heavily supported by big time agriculture thugs.

It's great to see Vinnie caring...I hope he will do some research and speak with local organic farmers about the ethics of Cargill. He might be in for a big surprise.

Ok, so now we've gone from "RR sucks" to "Cargill sucks". So your real beef is then with any craft brewer that uses Cargill?

Oh, and given how well thought out and researched your previous claims have been, you'll have to pardon some skepticism about your new stance.
 
Unfortunately, I keep looking at this cr@ppy thread.. and have posted once.. er, now twice..

What a clown this guy is.. Where is he come from?

He brews.. and ultimately uses the same grains we all use. ???

O/W.. tell us what grains you use.. and where do you get them??

If it weren't for people like me.. this post would fade into oblivion.

I'm glad to live so close to RR.. any waiting in line there is worth the wait.
 
Guys, this thread is getting dangerously close to rational again.

Can't we all just agree that Russian Rivers heinous business practices caused the subprime mortgage crisis and resulting economic tailspin?
 
Welcome to the thread from hell:D We have already established:

1. There is no Brewers GM Barley available period.
2. RR makes kickazz beer and the brewpub prices are dirt cheap in comparison to pretty much everywhere else.
3. The OP was trolling, which worked very well considering the size of this thread.

Is nice to read that my latest research supports number 1. However need an RR PTE or PTY to confirm...think I'm man enough to give it a go. :D
 
I don't think people should market a product as "craft beer" when it uses Cargill malts...But if I must stay on topic...

I was griping about price increases...For 20$ I can get a bottle of Cantillion and it's got no Cargill garbage in it...heck it's even organic.
 
OldWorld said:
I don't think people should market a product as "craft beer" when it uses Cargill malts...But if I must stay on topic...

I was griping about price increases...For 20$ I can get a bottle of Cantillion and it's got no Cargill garbage in it...heck it's even organic.

Fair enough. Move on then.
 
Boston Beer company is also considered "craft beer". Not sure what those words even mean anymore. Just be glad we live in the states and have such a great selection to choose from. Just got back from Mexico and as soon as I walked in the house I cracked open a can of Dales Pale Ale to wash the taste of cheap lager out of my mouth.
 
Ok, so what I'm getting from this thread is: RR is the bad guy for trying to make a profit off their beers, they used a brand of malt that singlehandedly is responsible for the housing collapse, pesticides cause male pattern baldness and are generally are going to bring about the end of the world. Did I leave anything out?
I live in Beer Hell, and we essentially don't have a craft beer scene anywhere close to what most people have. I've read about RR, and their prices don't seem off base at all. As far as GMO grain goes, who here can tell the difference? I certainly cannot, and since nothing bad can live in beer, who cares if it's GMO or not. If it weren't for GM crops, half the food we eat wouldn't exist (namely corn). Oh, and to the OP; RDWHAHB, it's better than a sharp stick in the eye. That is all.....
 
OldWorld said:
I don't think people should market a product as "craft beer" when it uses Cargill malts...But if I must stay on topic...

I was griping about price increases...For 20$ I can get a bottle of Cantillion and it's got no Cargill garbage in it...heck it's even organic.

Let's have some proof that Cargill is garbage.
 
I don't think people should market a product as "craft beer" when it uses Cargill malts...But if I must stay on topic...

...

Not only does Cargill produce high quality malt, but they import high quality malt from other world-class maltsters. Your opinion of their corporation or policies (which are COMPLETELY separate from the brewer's supply section) does not mean in any way, shape or form that they produce an inferior product. Look at probrewer.com, you will find glowing reviews of their products and customer service. In 23 years in the industry I have NEVER known a single brewer that chose a malt supplier solely based upon price, I seriously doubt that RR chose Cargill because they are cheaper. Frankly, having done brewing logs and inventories and price breakdowns that would fill volumes, I can honestly say that malt prices and their differences are amongst the LEAST of a commercial brewery's cost concerns. The difference between pricing on domestic malt suppliers is measured in pennies. Suppliers are often chosen due to warehousing and distribution issues (i.e., who has the closest distribution and, hence, lowest delivered price).

I have not done business with them (Cargill), nor do I personally know anyone who works there. I DO know that you made blatantly false claims against them and RR (another company that I have no ties to) and you have yet to retract those statements. Cargill does not, as you claimed, produce GMO malt.. NO ONE DOES... and, therefore, the malt used by RR is also not GMO. You also claim Cargill malt is "junk"... Proof? As I said, lots of glowing reviews by people using it. Put up or shut up, as they say. If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you apologize for slandering them both before you continue your campaign. Once you have done so, I would be more than happy to hear a well thought out argument against the quality of Cargill malts... that would, of course, have to include some sort of proof of claims. :)
 
Ok, so what I'm getting from this thread is: RR is the bad guy for trying to make a profit off their beers, they used a brand of malt that singlehandedly is responsible for the housing collapse, pesticides cause male pattern baldness and are generally are going to bring about the end of the world. Did I leave anything out?
I live in Beer Hell, and we essentially don't have a craft beer scene anywhere close to what most people have. I've read about RR, and their prices don't seem off base at all. As far as GMO grain goes, who here can tell the difference? I certainly cannot, and since nothing bad can live in beer, who cares if it's GMO or not. If it weren't for GM crops, half the food we eat wouldn't exist (namely corn). Oh, and to the OP; RDWHAHB, it's better than a sharp stick in the eye. That is all.....

Remember, there is NO GMO brewer's malt... so that original argument is moot. I seriously doubt anyone could tell the difference, you're right.. thing is, there is no difference to tell since GMO brewer's malt is a fairy tale!

Oh, and btw, I love the opening of your post!
 
OldWorld said:
I don't think people should market a product as "craft beer" when it uses Cargill malts...But if I must stay on topic...

I don't think you should sit in front of your computer tapping away about the evils of big business ag distributors and the breweries that support them, while clothed head to toe in the products of south east Asian sweat shops. But that's just me.
 
Boston Beer company is also considered "craft beer". Not sure what those words even mean anymore. Just be glad we live in the states and have such a great selection to choose from. Just got back from Mexico and as soon as I walked in the house I cracked open a can of Dales Pale Ale to wash the taste of cheap lager out of my mouth.

I kind of like Bohemia. The rest of it is refreshing but pretty much like BMC.
 
I'm not a fan of Cargill either as they have some terrible business practices unrelated to their malting http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticisms_of_Cargill#section_4
Trying to find organic malt for a price I can afford now is difficult, the group buy I was a part of didn't offer any, but I'm looking more into buying local organic or at least non certified organic when I can and growing my own hops. I'm not sure what it's like on a commercial level, but the more organic breweries out there means more availability of organic ingredients. I'd like to hear Vinnie's take on it. We should spam his email to get him on here, maybe he'd throw out some recipes if we were nice.
 
TheBreweryUnderground said:
We should spam his email to get him on here, maybe he'd throw out some recipes if we were nice.

I feel like spamming his email is the exact opposite of being nice. :p
 
Good point, hbt'ers who live close should show up at the brewpub and buy a few cases while mentioning it, the cases can then be shipped to me.
 
FWIW, Cargill DOES sell some organic malt... they may not have produced it, but they do carry it (specifically Warminster, floor malted, organic, Marris-Otter).. I believe they have some others as well.
 
wailingguitar said:
Not only does Cargill produce high quality malt, but they import high quality malt from other world-class maltsters. Your opinion of their corporation or policies (which are COMPLETELY separate from the brewer's supply section) does not mean in any way, shape or form that they produce an inferior product. Look at probrewer.com, you will find glowing reviews of their products and customer service. In 23 years in the industry I have NEVER known a single brewer that chose a malt supplier solely based upon price, I seriously doubt that RR chose Cargill because they are cheaper. Frankly, have doing brewing logs and inventories and price breakdowns that would fill volumes, I can honestly say that malt prices and their differences are amongst the LEAST of a commercial brewery's cost concerns. The difference between pricing on domestic malt suppliers is measured in pennies. Suppliers are often chosen due to warehousing and distribution issues (i.e., who has the closest distribution and, hence, lowest delivered price).

I have not done business with them (Cargill), nor do I personally know anyone who works there. I DO know that you made blatantly false claims against them and RR (another company that I have no ties to) and you have yet to retract those statements. Cargill does not, as you claimed, produce GMO malt.. NO ONE DOES... and, therefore, the malt used by RR is also not GMO. You also claim Cargill malt is "junk"... Proof? As I said, lots of glowing reviews by people using it. Put up or shut up, as they say. If you want to be taken seriously, I suggest you apologize for slandering them both before you continue your campaign. Once you have done so, I would be more than happy to hear a well thought out argument against the quality of Cargill malts... that would, of course, have to include some sort of proof of claims. :)

as an employee of Cargill, I must say that you are a hundred percent wrong in assuming we use GMO barley. You are also wrong in assuming we are cheap, low grade malt suppliers. In fact we are one of there more pricey suppliers because of our strict quality control and superior barley that we purchase from Canada and the United states.

Furthermore we have a great track record of working with our customers to deliver exactly what they want, when they want it, consistently time and time again.

Finally on our non business complaints. Most of them if not all are related to our other business areas namely meat and palm oil.

First we supply meat as demanded by our customers, that means you. Every time you go to a place with so called dubious meat quality you further the demand for cheap meat. You want it we supply it. You want high grade free range grass fed beef ***** at mcdonalds. Customers come to us with specs we just supply what they want. We can't sell a product no one wants, its a business.

And for our overseas operations, i.e. Palm oil, we follow all local laws and all American laws. Yes some rainforest destruction has occurred but no longer, we are on pace to be sustainable on our palm oil business.

Anyway a little off track but I get a little aggravated when Cargill catches a bad rap. We are private, quiet company that generally keeps to ourselves and that causes people to get the wrong idea.

Also we make the food you eat, you know what they say about the hand that feeds you.... (OK that parts a joke, couldn't resist)

* edit * these refutes aren't aimed at you wailingguitar it was just your response that prompted me to respond to all the negative Cargill related posts
 
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