Belgian Strong Ale Comments Please

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hbhudy

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I am planning on making a Belgian Strong Ale in the near future (already have the ingredients). I am looking for idea's on what might improve this package.
Ingredient list
6# Golden LME (Northern Brewer)
2# Amber DME
1# Clear Candi Sugar
1# Blonde Candi Sugar
1# Brown Candi Sugar
2oz Golding Hop
2oz Saaz Hop
3packs WYeast-1388 Belgian Strong Ale

Given this list I was looking for idea's to help with staying close to a belgian ale.. One suggestion was to add grains of paradise. Any other ideas?
 
I'm not an expert on this style but wonder about the 3 lbs of sugar. If you look around the recipe database here, under Belgian Strong Ale, I suspect you'll find that most of the recipes use less than that, between 1 - 2 lbs. If you browse the other recipes, it may also give you ideas on other ingredients, like the grains of paradise you mentioned. Cheers!
 
I am wondering about 3 packs of yeast. Seems like overkill. Don't you know there's a recession on? I would save the expense. My wyeast guide says 1388 will tolerate 12-13% ABV. You would have to have an OG of 1.09 or 1.10, something like that to get 12-13% ABV. I don't know if you would get there with 8# of extract.
 
OK so what I am hearing is that taking the sugar down to 1# of cani sugar and adding a 1# of pilsner DME would be preferred and using 1 smack pack vs 3 (which seemed like overkill to me BUT that is what the recipe called for) would be better??

{{Still looking for input as the original recipe seems as odd to other as it did to me this is why I asked}}

:confused: = :eek:
 
I would also say take out at least 1# of sugar. As far as what sugar to take out, it comes down to your own personal preferance for this recipe whether you want a lighter strong ale with the plain candi sugar or a little more color and flavor with the darker sugar. 1 package of yeast should be plenty, just make a starter to give it a headstart. Good luck!
 
I would say either make a starter of go forth with 3 packages of liquid yeast. That's a big beer. A starter is cheaper of course.

Also, you can save by making your own candi sugar (search the forums) or even using table sugae for at least part of it.

Spices: grains of paradise, cardamom, star anise...you have several options.
 
So now I am really confused..
Sugar down to roughly 1# to 1.5# in total...Right
What about adding the additional 1# of DME to makeup for the decrease in sugar??

Never had luck with Starters, but could I go with 2 smack packs vs all 3 smack packs?
Looking for just a little more assistance here.. Thanks.
 
Do you have a recipe you are using that lists a target OG? It might help to know that. McGarnigle is right, it is a big beer at 8# of extract. Sorry brewing isn't an exact science. I just don't think its 3-smack-pack-big and 1388 is made for it. You might look up some recipes on the site and see what other people have done for yeast on Belgian Strong Ales.
 
Agreed with one pounder of candi sugar - from the list you had I'd stick with the brown, though the Dark 2 syrup is my personal favorite for a Dark Strong. You could use all of those sugars, but you would end up with a very sweet beer that would have some muddled flavors. Those syrups and sugars are very flavorful, and a blend like that will not do what I think you want it to do.
 
Are you trying to make it a little darker with the Amber DME and dark candi sugar?

Here's what I would throw together for a Belgian Strong Ale or tripel:
8-9 lbs of Pilsen DME
2 lbs Cane Sugar (it's the same as clear candi sugar but MUCH cheaper)
Some Saaz and Hallertau hops.
Belgian Strong Ale Yeast
It'll be nice and light and dry with good yeast spice. Just my two cents.
 
bknifefight said:
Are you trying to make it a little darker with the Amber DME and dark candi sugar?

Here's what I would throw together for a Belgian Strong Ale or tripel:
8-9 lbs of Pilsen DME
2 lbs Cane Sugar (it's the same as clear candi sugar but MUCH cheaper)
Some Saaz and Hallertau hops.
Belgian Strong Ale Yeast
It'll be nice and light and dry with good yeast spice. Just my two cents.
Click to expand...

That sounds about perfect but I think he's trying to make a DARK strong. This thread is about a dark strong, right?

I would start with the pilsner extract as a base
1 lb table sugar
1 lb dark Belgian candy sugar. (this comes as a syrup that you can get at any good HBS don't use the rock candy crap)
Special B (very important)
Aromatic
maybe a touch of chocolate malt
German hops
Belgian yeast

Definitely make a big starter. use the calculator on the mr malty site. Even with a stir plate the starter for this style will be huge. With out a stir plate your probably better off pitching on to the cake of a previous batch. Perhaps make a lower strength Belgian pale ale and use the cake from that. Start the ferment slow at 64F then slowly raise the temp to 70F. Keep at 70F for the remainder of fermentation.
 
I've brewed Belgian Dark Strong ales with 3 lbs of cane sugar. It works just fine IMO. The key is to feed the sugar incrementally after 5-7 days. It's less stressful to the yeast since they don't see the full gravity of the beer at once. Just boil the sugar in 2 cups of water per pound, chill it to the fermenting temperature and pour it in.
 
EvilGnome6 said:
I've brewed Belgian Dark Strong ales with 3 lbs of cane sugar. It works just fine IMO. The key is to feed the sugar incrementally after 5-7 days. It's less stressful to the yeast since they don't see the full gravity of the beer at once. Just boil the sugar in 2 cups of water per pound, chill it to the fermenting temperature and pour it in.
Click to expand...

Right on! I think the extra sugar would be even more important with an extract batch to make sure it drys out and doesn't finish way high.

Also, adding some Munich extract would be a good idea to keep the malt profile rich.
 
maida7 said:
That sounds about perfect but I think he's trying to make a DARK strong. This thread is about a dark strong, right?

I would start with the pilsner extract as a base
1 lb table sugar
1 lb dark Belgian candy sugar. (this comes as a syrup that you can get at any good HBS don't use the rock candy crap)
Special B (very important)
Aromatic
maybe a touch of chocolate malt
German hops
Belgian yeast

Definitely make a big starter. use the calculator on the mr malty site. Even with a stir plate the starter for this style will be huge. With out a stir plate your probably better off pitching on to the cake of a previous batch. Perhaps make a lower strength Belgian pale ale and use the cake from that. Start the ferment slow at 64F then slowly raise the temp to 70F. Keep at 70F for the remainder of fermentation.
Click to expand...

Do the Special B and Belgian Aromatic need to be mashed or can they be steeped?
 
maida7 said:
Right on! I think the extra sugar would be even more important with an extract batch to make sure it drys out and doesn't finish way high.
Click to expand...

My thoughts exactly. The beauty of a Belgian Dark Strong is that they finish dry and let the yeast shine through. Subbing out too much of the sugar for even more extract will make it way too sweet.
 
Do you have a means for temperature control? I have found with my Quads and Triples that have a lot of simple sugars in them turnout a LOT better when I manage their fermentation Temp. I can keep the ester profile I like, but hold the hot alcohols to a minimum if it pitch a healthy starter at a higher pitching rate than ales(1.2X), at 64ºF and hold it there till fermentation gets going well (8-24hr) then raise the temp 1ºF every 24hr till you get to 72-76º then you can hold it there, or if you taste it and think it needs cleaning up, let it clime higher on its own.

IMO 90% of brewing is yeast management, any monkey can make good wort. It takes healthy yeast to make good beer.
 
Bsquared said:
Do you have a means for temperature control? I have found with my Quads and Triples that have a lot of simple sugars in them turnout a LOT better when I manage their fermentation Temp. I can keep the ester profile I like, but hold the hot alcohols to a minimum if it pitch a healthy starter at a higher pitching rate than ales(1.2X), at 64ºF and hold it there till fermentation gets going well (8-24hr) then raise the temp 1ºF every 24hr till you get to 72-76º then you can hold it there, or if you taste it and think it needs cleaning up, let it clime higher on its own.

IMO 90% of brewing is yeast management, any monkey can make good wort. It takes healthy yeast to make good beer.
Click to expand...

1 degree every 24 hours? I don't have that kind of control. What do you use? I just have a small room that stays at 68 and a brew belt if I need it.
 
A freezer chest wired to a Ranco ETC (best investment I ever made).

Yeast generate a lot of heat that needs to be dissipated during the first few day of fermentation, especially when there are a lot of simple sugars to mow through.They will generate a lot of solvent like flavors that take a long time to dissipate if the fermentation Temp gets too high early in fermentation when the yeast are expanding. If you can at least try and keep the below 68 for the first three to four days, by putting the fermenter in a tray of water with some towels rapped around the fermenter to wick the water up the sides of the fermenter, and a fan blowing on it. Kinda like a make shift swamp cooler.
 
bknifefight said:
1 degree every 24 hours? I don't have that kind of control. What do you use? I just have a small room that stays at 68 and a brew belt if I need it.
Click to expand...

68 room temp will have the start of fermentation too hot. This is a hard beer to make without good temp control. Start too hot and you will have crazy esters and hot alcohols. End cold and you will problems with attenuation. It's a huge beer that is very dependent on yeast flavors and a dry finish.

I use a fridge with a ranco digital controller. My controller has dual out put and can control both heating and cooling. I use a heating pad to warm things. I got the fridge used for 30.00 The controller was about 120.00 and the heating pad I already had.
 
I generally pitch very cool, about 5F below the recommended range for the yeast. It usually takes 2-3 days for the temperature to climb to the top of the range for the yeast. This has been working very well for me, it's cool when the yeast is propagating and warm for it to finish very dry. The Belgian Dark Strong I have in the fermenter right now has gone from 1.095 to 1.006. 11.25% now. :)
 
Sorry for the late reply.. But thanks for the input..
To answer the threads
1> I am trying to make a Golden Strong Ale (if it is more Amber I am OK with this)
2> I can control the temp with a Swamp-Cooler starting in the low 60's and working up to mid 70's over a 7 day period
3> Expected OG1079 and FG1008 with ABV 9.4%
4>Recipe from zymurgy Vol32#6 page16 .. a Coopers LME & DME recipe with the other items added.
I hope this answers everyones questions.
 
maida7 said:
68 room temp will have the start of fermentation too hot. This is a hard beer to make without good temp control. Start too hot and you will have crazy esters and hot alcohols. End cold and you will problems with attenuation. It's a huge beer that is very dependent on yeast flavors and a dry finish.
Click to expand...

Now we are only specifically talking about belgian strongs here, right? I have no problem brewing most ales with WLP001 in this room with no bad results from the temp. I did however do a Wit recently which isn't conditioned yet but tasting it while checking the SG it seemed fine. But then again, it wasn't a strong beer.
 
maida7 said:
68 room temp will have the start of fermentation too hot. This is a hard beer to make without good temp control. Start too hot and you will have crazy esters and hot alcohols. End cold and you will problems with attenuation. It's a huge beer that is very dependent on yeast flavors and a dry finish.
Click to expand...

I disagree. Just chill the wort to 59F, pitch the yeast and let it rise. The temperature range for Wyeast 1388 is 64-80° F. A 68F room will be just fine.
 

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