SE Mass - 60 Gal.: Turbid Mash Lambic Brew Day

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ok 7:30 it is.

Anyone NOT there when the grains get passed out gets their share revoked and reallocated to the brewers who are there.

(looking in your direction PTN)
 
uhhhh... me, Babalu, Colby, PTN, Drinkswell and Slots... yeah, six. Would have been 7 but F-dub's going for a three-hour tour on the fail boat.

So the pre-boil is gonna be something silly like 100 gallons.
You can boil 100 gallons on your rig?

He's gonna be on a boat without really being on a boat

TURRIBLE

People are gonna get drunk on the Westy clone :drunk:

PTN
For reference:

 
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We're bringing a big salad and some snackage too.

How many people are going to hang around for dinner after?

Maybe we should just do pizza.............................................................................
 
I'm in for the duration.

PTN

You want a PHAT Porterhouse for dinner?

Oh

THIS :rockin:

Friday: Sunny, with a high near 78.

Friday Night: Mostly clear, with a low around 58.

Saturday: Mostly sunny, with a high near 80.

Saturday Night: A chance of showers. Mostly cloudy, with a low around 63. Chance of precipitation is 30%.
 
Looks like I missed a lot of productive communication while at work today.

I'm down with 7:30. I normally do 5 gallon batches but I can do 10 if I can borrow a keggle or Brian's 20 gallon pot again. I won't be able to make the meeting tomorrow night so keep me posted on any discussions or updates.

Oh and I ordered a crapton of bottles from Steve last week for the Consecration clone so hopefully they'll be in by Friday.
 
Productivity is key

Music, I got that covered with my EPIC camping mix.
Its HEAVY on the Blues and there is about 10 hours on it.
All I need is a USB port
 
Looks like i missed a lot today too. I'm in for 7:30, and the duration. But, and it's a big BUT, my 99 year old grandmother is in the hospital. My mother doesn't think she'll be with us long. If she passes later in the week, I may not be able to make brew day. I will, however, bring my rig down for anyone (PTN) to use before I leave, and pay my share, so that I'm not totally excluded in this. If she passes early, I'll be there, even if I have to drive all night.

I figured that since PTN was vacant most of the day last year, and drinkswell did most of his brew, PTN could be the one that brews my share. :)
 
Looks like I missed a lot of productive communication while at work today.

"Ohhhh, everybody look at me. I have a job now, I'm FAR too busy to spend my day jerking off on HBT like the rest of you slackers, cause I got a job now. Unlike the rest of you bums, I work while I'm at work. Cause I got a job now!"

Yada yada yada...

PTN
 
Hows this look.

18 X 6 = 100+ gallons of wort, CB can you boil THAT much?

To draw the turbid portion your gonna need a colander or tin pan with holes in it.
If you try to run the wort off it'll be like getting blood from a stone.
Gotta push a colander/pan into the wort and then get the turbid portion, at least with that first pull

2010 SE Mass Turrbid Lambic

A ProMash Recipe Report

BJCP Style and Style Guidelines
-------------------------------

17-D Sour Ale, Straight (unblended) Lambic

Min OG: 1.040 Max OG: 1.054
Min IBU: 2 Max IBU: 10
Min Clr: 3 Max Clr: 7 Color in SRM, Lovibond

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 10.00 Wort Size (Gal): 10.00
Total Grain (Lbs): 18.50
Anticipated OG: 1.055 Plato: 13.49
Anticipated SRM: 3.9
Anticipated IBU: 0.0
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 180 Minutes

Pre-Boil Amounts
----------------

Evaporation Rate: 15.00 Percent Per Hour
Pre-Boil Wort Size: 18.18 Gal
Pre-Boil Gravity: 1.030 SG 7.57 Plato

Formulas Used
-------------

Brewhouse Efficiency and Predicted Gravity based on Method #1, Potential Used.
Final Gravity Calculation Based on Points.
Hard Value of Sucrose applied. Value for recipe: 46.2100 ppppg
% Yield Type used in Gravity Prediction: Fine Grind Dry Basis.

Color Formula Used: Morey
Hop IBU Formula Used: Rager


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
59.5 11.00 lbs. Pilsen (2 Row) France 1.039 2
40.5 7.50 lbs. White Wheat Belgium 1.040 3

Potential represented as SG per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
2.00 oz. Some old hops Paul had laying Whole 0.00 0.0 60 min.


Yeast
-----

Wyeast 3278 Lambic Blend


Mash Schedule
-------------

Mash Type: Multi Step

Grain Lbs: 18.50
Water Qts: 9.25 - Before Additional Infusions
Water Gal: 2.31 - Before Additional Infusions

Qts Water Per Lbs Grain: 0.50 - Before Additional Infusions

Acid Rest Temp : 113 Time: 10
Protein Rest Temp : 126 Time: 5
Intermediate Rest Temp : 149 Time: 30
Saccharification Rest Temp : 162 Time: 20
Mash-out Rest Temp : 167 Time: 20
Sparge Temp : 190 Time: 0


Total Mash Volume Gal: 3.79 - Dough-In Infusion Only

All temperature measurements are degrees Fahrenheit.



Notes
-----

1: Dough in VERY THICK with 2 1/2 gallons of 140 degree water to to Acid rest of 113 , hold
10 minutes

2: Add boiling water to 126 degrees (can use direct heat as wel
l) hold 5 minutes

3: Draw off 2 qts wort (turbid portion) and put in turbi
d pot heat to 190+ (denatures enzymes).

4: Add boiling water to 149 degress
(can also use direct heat) hold 30 minutes

5: Draw off another 2 gallons
of turbid wort, add to community turbid pot and raise temp of turbid portio
n to 190-212

6: Infuse boiling water to 162 and hold 20 minutes

7: Drain
most of wort to kettle as if you are batch sparging.

8: Add Turbid portion
(2 1/2 gallons each brewer) to raise mash to 167. Hold 20 minutes.

9: Spa
rge with 190 degree until pre-boil volume is reached.

10: Have a beer, you
deserve it!
 
Paul, the mash works like this

Dough in at .3 (yeah .3 that outta be fun) qts/lb of mash
The second addition is at .5 qts/lb and the third addition is at .65 qts/lb and the fourth at 1.25 or something close to that....

What I am going to do is print the mash schedule , re-size it and bring copies with me to CB's.
I think its the easiest way as the article I am using shows a nice chart and it really makes the turbid process look as simple as it is.
 
Also, if brewers have a way to direct fire their mash I think thats the best option.

Its pretty labor intensive as far as the mash. If you can direct fire then you really dont need to mash in as thick as a typical turbid mash.

For instance
You could dough in at .5 qts/gallon (still pretty fvcking thick) to hit 113 and then direct heat to hit 126.
This would allow the first turbid pull to be the correct ratio.

You could then add water to the 1.25 qt/lb ratio to hit 149 and then use direct heat to reach the 162 mark (after pulling the second turbid portion following the sacch rest @ 149)

Once everyone has seen it printed out its going to make sense.

Not to get into history too much but turbid was done because of tax reasons.
Smaller tun equaled less taxes. While this went on brewers devised the turbid mash to get the most out of the mash tun.......... it also gave them better results with Lambics.

I think as long as the water/grist ratio is right at each turbid pull we'll be fine using direct heat to hit the next steps
 
Ya, you guys have this romantic notion about the whole turbid mash thing, how it's 'doing a lambic the way the Belgians used to do it.'

There is a reason why the Belgians used to do it that way and don't now.

It's a f'ing pain in the ass.

Should be a fun day.

PTN
 
Decoctions are a pain in the ass too but make all the difference in the World for a German Weissebier.

Cantillon is still using turbid mashing, thats good enough for me.

Will be a fun day, weather looks tremendous.
 
1-1/2" thick Porterhouse steaks are things of beauty.
Should we opt for charcoal grilling?
Might be worth it.
I have a Weber that could make the trip
She's old , beat up, rough around the edges and been rode hard and put away wet but she'll cook like nobodys business.
That and a sack of Cowboy charcoal

Meat hangover
AND
Beer hangover

Glad I'm bringing the camper.
 
Thats still really good.
We'll only need to have two maybe three other keggles boiling the balance of the wort.

So the final count on steaks is what 5?
Maybe I'll throw an e-mail out on the steaks later today.

Need to know by mid-day Friday, thats when the trip to the butcher is being made.
 
Ah, do we have yeast-bugs?

How the hell is 60 gallons of beer going to get bottled in time for the Lambic to go into the barrel?
 
Was there a final decision on how we were going to bottle the consecretion? Were we adding a bottling yeast AND priming sugar? I think we're gonna have to... no?
 
I aint suggesting **** since its not my beer but I have a thought.

You
Pull a sample tonight
Take a gravity reading
Throw some bread yeast in there.
Put it in a warm place (better yet on a stir plate for 24-36 hours)
Crash it out
Take another gravity reading

If it drops considerably I wouldnt add any bottling sugar, just some US-05 and bottle it up.
You add botting sugar AND there are some unfermentables that havent been eaten up yet you can haz bottle bombs , strong bottle or not.
 
Late to the party, worked till 3, just woke up.

Ok, as far as bottling, I plan on using my bottler. I get your concern vis a vis oxygenation but it isn't a problem in practice. I was initially surprised that you raised the question but I watched the video again with a critical eye and it does appear to splash the wine all over the place. All I can say is that the video makes it look FAR worse than it is in real time. Wine makers OBSESS over keeping oxygen away from their product and wouldn't consider using a device like this if it create that problem, and for small wineries who can't afford a 50K bottling line a 5 spout filler is the standard. If your worried about it we can rig up some way to flush each bottle with CO2. Even if we had 2 - 3 beer guns going at once it would take all weekend to do 60 gallons.

As far as steaks, my buddy Drunken is coming, put me down for 2.

And as far as the hops... I have that pound bag of unopened stuff. It's been downstairs in the freezer since I got it. I'll bring it unopened and we can toss it in the oven at Brians that day and as a group determine how much they need to cook. I'm figuring an hour or two in a real slow oven will drive off the volitilie aromas.

PTN
 
How offended would people be if I jst bottled my share tomorrow or Friday night? Just to get it out of the way? Frank said he simply wants his share in cornies. If I can do mine ahead of time and we drop Frank's share in two cornies, then that's a big chunk outof the way right out of the gates
 
I'll echo what I said in the e-mail (I should have PTN's e-mail dont yah think)

That beer might benefit from being in a keg for a few more months.

There I said it and feel better for it
 
I don't have any available kegs at the moment... only two that need to be *****ed and rebuilt. If I don't bottle Saturday I might have to buy 2 kegs from Steve this weekend.
 
Late to the party, worked till 3, just woke up.
"Ohhhh, everybody look at me. I have a job now, I'm FAR too busy to spend my day jerking off on HBT like the rest of you slackers, cause I got a job now. Unlike the rest of you bums, I work while I'm at work. Cause I got a job now!"

Yada yada yada...

PTN


How offended would people be if I jst bottled my share tomorrow or Friday night? Just to get it out of the way? Frank said he simply wants his share in cornies. If I can do mine ahead of time and we drop Frank's share in two cornies, then that's a big chunk outof the way right out of the gates

Would anybody be offended if I brought a couple cornies and filled them from the barrel?
 
As far as the bottling/kegging goes...

I think it's morelikely than not that we're going to have a boatload of loss to the barrel. Actually, not to the the barrel per se, but to the large amount of lees on the bottom. There's 30# of currents in that barrel. Now the brett certainly ate up a large amount of the cellulose that made up the pulp of the fruit, but I expect that there is going to be a really thick layer of crap on the bottom of that barrel. In order to minimize the amount of schmutz getting sucked out and added back into the beer I think it would be best to draw the beer of into clean/sterilized containers. (Brians conicals would fit the bill, we know we have enough capacity by using them.) Then we can accuratly assess when to stop sucking out beer because we're getting a lot of crap, figure out how much final product we actually have and devide up that amount at that time. It would suck for someone to get a case of bottles with an inch of yeast/current schmegma on the bottom.

I think we should plan on adding some small amount of bottling sugar and priming yeast. Yes, there is theoreticaly (sp?) a bunch of fermentables remaining in the beer that the brett will eventually metabolize. It's only been a year since we brewed and the graphs all show that the brett takes longer than that to ferment to complete dryness. But I would preffer to have some pressure in the bottles right away. I realize that the bottles will be sealed by the corks and the pressure WILL build but I just feel more comfortable having a few PSI in there almost from the start. (By way of comparison, when champagne is bottled there is priming sugar and fresh yeast added. The bottle are eventually placed upside down in a frozen slush bath to freeze the yeast plug in the neck of the bottle, the cap is removed, the plug shoots out, a thumb quickly gets plugged into the bottle and then a small amount of wine from another bottle is used to fill up the bottle. It then gets corked. THat's why there is no yeast layer in a bottle of champagne. Interestingly, the longer the champagne stays in the cellar with the lees in the bottle the better the champagne. That also accounts for the high cost of traditionally produced champagne, a lot of work and a lot of time. Todays lesson was brought to you by the letters E, T, O and H.)

So to get back to the beer, I intend to bottle my share in Belgian 750's, with corks and wires. I'll use a SMALL amount of priming sugar and an inocous yeast like 05. YMMV.


We also need to remember that we're each down for a few bottles to the guy who gave us the barrel. I'm going back out there the day after we brew/bottle to help Spawn move home and will be swinging by his winery on Monday and would like to drop them off then.

PTN
 
Nah. Thats stupid.

Weather's showing rain fa' saturday.

Kinder Bitte

Saturday: A slight chance of showers after noon. Mostly cloudy, with a high near 74. Southwest wind between 8 and 10 mph. Chance of precipitation is 20%.

Saturday Night: A chance of showers, with thunderstorms also possible after 11pm. Some of the storms could produce heavy rain. Patchy fog after midnight. Otherwise, mostly cloudy, with a low around 60. Chance of precipitation is 40%. New rainfall amounts between a tenth and quarter of an inch, except higher amounts possible in thunderstorms.

Back on the bottling topic.
I have that BIG stainless container we fermented some of the Kate the Great in.
That would hold 30 gallons, then fill a sanke keg and have a carboy on standby until you start picking up schmegma.
The carboy could be flushed with CO2, airlocked and bottled/kegged once the schmutz settled out.

Actually, might be best to fill the carboy first. The first part of the flow might pick up some schmatz but after that it would run clear for a while.
 
Is not.

You are.

You're a great big stupidhead. And stupidheads around the world are embarrassed 'cause I said so.

Stupidhead.

Stupidhead!

Stupidhead!!!!

PTN

(mutters to self... 'F'ing Stupidhead!')

Actually we're both stupid heads (CB and ME)

Me for not thinking about his generator feed and my electric kettle
Him for not thinking about his generator feed and my electric kettle

We're like a plug away from making this happen and I'm pretty sure I have the plug.
 
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