Can someone help me interpret this water report?

I posted this in another area and one of the members suggested that I post it here. To add to what I left out in the other post, I know nothing about chemistry or water compostition. Im just looking for some basic improvements that may help me make better beer. My next two planned brew are a bohemian pils and a RIS. Any suggestions that may help with those would be greatly appreciated. Also, any suggested reading will definately be helpful (If they are not overly technical that would be event better).

So I have never really looked at my water make up before. I have read a lot about how much benefit can come from good ph and mineral levels. So I pulled the report and its all greek to me. Can someone take a look and tell me what Im looking at? Thanks!

http://www.cvwdwater.com/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=857

The average values don't look bad, though the ranges are large. Definitely do something about the chlorine (filter or campden) and watch the mash pH on light beers.

For your Boh Pils you probably want to follow the Water Primer in the stickies of this section of the forum. Your Russian Imperial Stout would probably be fine. Obviously, as Nateo said, you want to treat your water with campden tablets. You'll need 1 tablet for 20 gallons of treated water.

I charcoal filter all of my water. My understanding is that removes a majority of the chlorine. Would there be any other reason for me to use campden tablets? Also, would you recomend using a ph stabilizer? I dont want to make this too complicated so im trying to keep it simple.

In reading the water primer sticky and comparing my values, the only one that was over the definition of "soft" water was alkalinity (suggested value at less than 35ppm-my value at an average 137). Does this require me to make any adjustments other than the ones mentioned in the last couple of posts?

If you charcoal filter your water and you can't smell chlorine when pouring a cup of water between cups, then you're probably OK as far as chlorine. Chlorine is the only reason you'd want campden tablets.

As far as "adjustments in the last couple of posts"...I'm not sure which set of posts you're talking about? As far as pH buffer, people have tested the resulting pH obtained when the buffer and it was about .3 to .4 pH higher than most people recommend. It also adds quite a bit of sodium, so no, I wouldn't recommend it.

Btw, I would try brewing your RIS without any modifications to your water (other than charcoal filtering), and see where it gets you. Chances are you'll be pretty close with your mash pH. If the beer ends up a little dull in flavor you'll know you need to either lower your alkalinity a bit or add a bit of acid next time.

Here's a thread on 5.2. It's bogus: http://www.homebrewersassociation.org/forum/index.php?topic=1125.0

If you're brewing your bopils for a contest, use RO water. If you're brewing it for you, just use tap water. There's a Czech brewer on the AHA forum who uses moderately hard water for his lagers. He says it's a myth that bo pils are brewed with very soft water. Some are, and the BJCP style guidelines say they're supposed to be, but the actual water used in Bohemian breweries varies from soft to hard.

Yes, that's certainly true and even were it not for Boh. pils it is certainly true for German Pilsners. But which are the best Bohemian Pilsners? The ones made with the softest water. That's really a matter of personal taste of course but it seems quite clear, to me at least, that soft water makes better beer.

Interestingly enough I was doing a comparative tasting of lagers at my club meeting when a fellow just back from the Czech Republic made the same point as your correspondent. He's the finance guy from a local and he and the brewer had just been over there and brewed their first Pils upon returning. Not too good (but certainly not bad) because their water runs about 47 ppm sulfate. I had some soft water Pils samples (one of mine, one of one of their competitors). They are getting an RO unit.

From what I read the alkalinity is the only factor keeping me from having soft water. Please correct me if im wrong. So short of using 100% RO water or diluting my tap water is there anything I can add to my brew water to bring down the alkalinity? Does adding acid do this? Sorry if these are dumb questions. Im incredibly ignorant when it comes to water chemistry.

AJ, I completely agree. It's taken for granted that authentic = good, but that's not always the case. I haven't tried your beer, but I suspect you're uncommonly good at brewing light lagers. I'm sure you're right that the best pilsners use soft water, but until you're brewing at that level I don't think it matters that much.

I can't taste the difference between the beers I've brewed with RO and the beers I brew with my moderately hard lime-softened water. Maybe a better brewer could make a beer that would benefit from soft water, and someone with a better palate could tell the difference, but that's not me.

I'm not going to presume the OP's skill level. Maybe he's at the point where soft water is what will make his good pilsners great.

JonBoy47 said:

From what I read the alkalinity is the only factor keeping me from having soft water. Please correct me if im wrong. So short of using 100% RO water or diluting my tap water is there anything I can add to my brew water to bring down the alkalinity? Does adding acid do this? Sorry if these are dumb questions. Im incredibly ignorant when it comes to water chemistry.

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People are sloppy in the use of the term 'soft' and use it when they mean 'low in mineral content'. A tumblerfull of DI water with a teaspoonfull of sodium bicarbonate dissolved in it is soft but very high in alkalinity. If you have alkalinity (bicarbonate) it has to be paired with something (water is electrically neutral). If that something is calcium or magnesium the water is hard. If it is sodium or potassium the water is soft.

Adding acid to alkaline water does remove alkalinity by converting the bicarbonate to CO2 gas. So, for example, if you had the DI water plus sodium bicarbonate example mentioned above and added sulfuric acid it would fizz and instead of sodium bicarbonate you would have sodium sulfate.

So would adding acid give me the water profile that I want? Or does it just change one mineral compound to another without "softening" the water?

All it does is swap the acid anion for HCO3-

M+ + HA + HCO3- --> M+ + A- + H2O + CO2

"M" represents some metal cation.

So if I understand correctly, the only way to truly achieve a soft water profile with my tap water is to use RO and adjust from there?

Well again we must be careful about what is meant by 'soft'. If it means low ion content then yes, you must use cation/anion ion exchange or reverse osmosis or distillation to separate the water from any ions it contains. If it literally means soften then it is sufficient to remove calcium and magnesium which can be done by precipitating them with sodium carbonate, running the water through an ion exchanger such as the typical home ion exchanger, adding lime, adding trisodium phosphate...

That sounds like a whole bunch of work. Am I correct in assuming that starting with RO water and building from there is much easier?

Yes, that'd certainly be easier.

JonBoy47 said:

That sounds like a whole bunch of work. Am I correct in assuming that starting with RO water and building from there is much easier?

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In my experience, yes!

I'm pretty new to water chemistry myself but when you start with RO water you have a "clean slate" and don't have to futz with trying to lower the alkalinity or anything like that.

After trying all sorts of things, including preboiling my water to reduce the bicarbonates, pickling lime also, and so on, I found it easier to buy an RO water system.

But before that, we had a "water machine" at our grocery store, and I just bought 4 gallons (in two 2 gallon containers) for $1.58. That, mixed with my tap water, did the trick! They took the water machine out of the store recently, and that is when I ended up buying my own simple RO system. But if you live in a place where RO water is cheap and convenient to get, I'd suggest starting with that.

Yooper said:

In my experience, yes!

I'm pretty new to water chemistry myself but when you start with RO water you have a "clean slate" and don't have to futz with trying to lower the alkalinity or anything like that.

After trying all sorts of things, including preboiling my water to reduce the bicarbonates, pickling lime also, and so on, I found it easier to buy an RO water system.

But before that, we had a "water machine" at our grocery store, and I just bought 4 gallons (in two 2 gallon containers) for $1.58. That, mixed with my tap water, did the trick! They took the water machine out of the store recently, and that is when I ended up buying my own simple RO system. But if you live in a place where RO water is cheap and convenient to get, I'd suggest starting with that.

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I'm not sure why...perhaps it's because we don't really have any locations with bad water (most places anyways)...but I've never seen an RO machine in Vermont. Fortunately my water is suitable for lime softening (with no need for magnesium treatment)! We may be getting an RO unit for drinking water when we get a whole house softener, though, so perhaps I'll stop using lime treatment.

Are basic RO systems very expensive?

JonBoy47 said:

Are basic RO systems very expensive?

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I just paid $129 for a basic system last week. I've seen more expensive, and I've seen cheaper, but this is one that was recommended to me when I started a thread about buying one. I've only used it once, but it was easy to set up and use and I'm happy with it.