Draft Tower vs. Shank Thru Door?

I just purchased a Sanyo 4912 (open-box at Best Buy!) and I'm pondering how to best set it up. I've seen a lot of draft tower modifications, but it seems like it ought to be just as easy to put shanks through the front door and have front-mounted taps. Is there a good reason to have a draft tower as opposed to door-mounted taps? The big advantage that I see to going the door route is that if the fridge breaks, I can buy another, swap doors, and return the original one. That wouldn't be possible with a 3" hole in the top of the fridge unit.

max

I doubt there is room inside for the shanks and hoses to fit in between the door and the keg (there certainly isn't in my model of mini-fridge anyway).

I did it with mine. And they were long shanks as well. Shouldn't be a problem with short shanks.

mr x said:

I did it with mine. And they were long shanks as well. Shouldn't be a problem with short shanks.

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mr x,
do you find yourself wishing that you had a draft tower instead?

max

maxr said:

The big advantage that I see to going the door route is that if the fridge breaks, I can buy another, swap doors, and return the original one. That wouldn't be possible with a 3" hole in the top of the fridge unit.

max

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Glad to see that honesty and integrity is alive and well in the state of California.

maxr said:

mr x,
do you find yourself wishing that you had a draft tower instead?

max

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Not one bit.

mr x said:

Not one bit.

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Same here. I prefer my door-mounted taps, it just means more room to store glasses on top of the fridge. Not like it's that hard to bend over a little to pour from the door. I totally couldn't justify the extra cost of a draft tower even if I did want one.

It also leaves the possibility to put the fridge up off the floor and still reach the taps, which is something I am considering.

IDK about you, but a sanyo is too short for shanks sticking out the front. I guess it'll work if you elevate the fridge, or you are a midget. You'll have to bend down every time you get a beer. Also, you aren't really saving THAT much money using shanks in the doors. I mean you can get a decent tower for $100 and that includes shanks and beer line. The shanks a lone for a door setup will be like $40, plus hose and clamps.

Then there's the whole "looks" thing. Sanyos with a draft tower look great, especially if you mount up some glass holders!

maxr said:

The big advantage that I see to going the door route is that if the fridge breaks, I can buy another, swap doors, and return the original one. That wouldn't be possible with a 3" hole in the top of the fridge unit.

max

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That saddens me. Do you really not have an ethical problem with that plan?

BlindLemonLars said:

That saddens me. Do you really not have an ethical problem with that plan?

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None whatsoever. If I modify only the door of the fridge, IMHO the manufacturer's warranty should still apply to the unmodified body and compressor of the fridge.

max

maxr said:

None whatsoever. If I modify only the door of the fridge, IMHO the manufacturer's warranty should still apply to the unmodified body and compressor of the fridge.

max

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Well, you're wrong. It's dishonest, period.

The other advantage to having the draft tower is the increased resistance provided by the extra couple of feet that the gas has to push the beer UP. The formula for the lenght of a gas line takes into consideration the height the beer has to rise. So instead of needing to coil 7 or 8 feet of tubing inside your fridge, if you have a tower you only need about 5 or 6, and most of can be stuffed inside the tower.

I run 10 feet of hose no problem in my fridge.

sirsloop said:

IDK about you, but a sanyo is too short for shanks sticking out the front. I guess it'll work if you elevate the fridge, or you are a midget. You'll have to bend down every time you get a beer.

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I am 6 feet 2 inches tall, so I'm far from being a 'midget', and when standing, my fingertips are about even with the bottom of the faucets - and I haven't even mounted the faucets quite as high as I could have. I only have to lean over a tiny bit to hold a glass under the faucet, I certainly wouldn't even call it 'bending over'. For a person under 6 feet tall you may not even need to lean over at all. For most people of average height, I do not think that the height of the faucets will constitute a problem.

Now I can't really argue with aesthetics, that's a matter of personal choice. I agree that a nice shiny tower looks good, and if you feel that there's something aesthetically unpleasing about pouring a beer around or below waist height instead of chest height, then who am I to argue - to each his own.

I am 5' 10" and have no problem with the tap height. As far as looks go, I think it looks just fine.

Mr x..just wondering if you got the foaming issue resolved.
I remember you mentioned on Bradsuls sylvania conversion thread that there was an issue having the taps on the door being at the same height as the top of the keg?

BeerCanuck

Fixed that problem. Just needed a tiny circ fan (set on a timer to go 15 min/hour) to move the air around. Works awesome now.

mr x,
Any chance of getting a pic or 2 of your setup? I'm leaning towards the shanks-thru-door method right now. Northern Brewer sells 3" shanks, and with those I don't think there would be any interference with the top o' the kegs. I only have a 5 lb CO2 cylinder in there, so there's a bit of maneuvering space.

Max

Bernie Brewer said:

Well, you're wrong. It's dishonest, period.

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really? I mean if he drills a whole in the door, the compressor is no longer guaranteed to work? I don't see how the two things are related and I would expect it to be covered as well.

z987k said:

really? I mean if he drills a whole in the door, the compressor is no longer guaranteed to work? I don't see how the two things are related and I would expect it to be covered as well.

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I completely understand your logic, and in my own business I would honor such an arrangement without hesitation. However, in this case it comes down to the written agreement between you and the manu/retailer (the warranty). If the warranty is voided by mods, then drilling holes does actually mean that your compressor is no longer guaranteed to work. And lying to hide your modification is dishonest.

IMHO, that's a huge part of what's wrong with our world today. Too many people redefine honesty and ethics based on their own opinion that no one would be hurt by their actions.

pldoolittle said:

IMHO, that's a huge part of what's wrong with our world today. Too many people redefine honesty and ethics based on their own opinion that no one would be hurt by their actions.

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You couldn't be more right.

However, If we fail to think for ourselves (another problem with the world today)and blindly follow the letter of every contract or law, we give up our individualism. I have to agree with mrx here, I mean, if nothing he does effects the compressor failing, who gets hurt here?

BTW, if he bought the fridge at Lowe's or HD, they would probably return it with the hole. They take back EVERYTHING. it's a customer service choice they have made, that makes them money in the long run.

pldoolittle said:

If the warranty is voided by mods, then drilling holes does actually mean that your compressor is no longer guaranteed to work. And lying to hide your modification is dishonest.

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But if he replaces the door, then the fridge is no longer modified, and the warranty is still in tact legally. I have no problem with this.

I will try to get a pic of my fridge for you maxr, but it will be a couple days.

What if you drilled through a replacement door and saved the original? Then if the unit fails you return it with the original door. The manufacturer allows you to remove the door, otherwise you couldn't change the R/L handed orientation. Is that dishonest? I realize this is a serious gray area, but ultimately it's virtually identical to the other way.

maxr said:

Any chance of getting a pic or 2 of your setup? I'm leaning towards the shanks-thru-door method right now. Northern Brewer sells 3" shanks, and with those I don't think there would be any interference with the top o' the kegs. I only have a 5 lb CO2 cylinder in there, so there's a bit of maneuvering space.

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I used 4-1/2" shanks with no problem. I'd have used shorter ones if I'd known how long these would be, but it's not really a big deal either way.

I've got a number of pictures at my site:
http://eegeek.net/content/view/74/39/

Sea said:

I have to agree with mrx here, I mean, if nothing he does effects the compressor failing, who gets hurt here?

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Who gets hurt? Every one that buys a fridge at a higher price because he purposely wrecked the thing and then tried to scam hi way into getting his money back. It's just like stealing-you may think that it "hurts no one, bacause they have all the money and they can afford it, but you're really just ripping off the public because that is exactly who is footing the bill in the end. That's the kind of attitude that pi$$es me off to no end. I think of my ancestors (and yours) in times like the Great Depression when nobody had a pot to pi$$ in, and yet they'd rather go hungry than steal a loaf of bread. And then guys like you turn around with money to burn and come up with ripoffs like this. No wonder this country's going down the sh!tter.

Sea said:

You couldn't be more right.

However, If we fail to think for ourselves (another problem with the world today)and blindly follow the letter of every contract or law, we give up our individualism. I have to agree with mrx here, I mean, if nothing he does effects the compressor failing, who gets hurt here?

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With respect to contracts, I completely disagree. A contract is a binding agreement between you another person. Even if *no one* gets hurt, to break that contract without a release from the other party is dishonest.

mr x said:

But if he replaces the door, then the fridge is no longer modified, and the warranty is still in tact legally. I have no problem with this.

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You can't un-ring a bell. You either did it, or you did not. Undoing it later does not mean that it didn't happen. If the warranty says modifications voids the warranty (as almost all do), then your warranty is void.

This is very simple. If you must attempt to hide or obscure your actions to effect the return, then you are being dishonest. And you know it, or else you would have just told them what happened and dealt with the consequences.

Bernie Brewer said:

Who gets hurt? Every one that buys a fridge at a higher price because he purposely wrecked the thing and then tried to scam hi way into getting his money back.

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I've got to believe that you misunderstand his intentions. If he has a warrentee issue with his fridge they will likely give him grief about the hole in the door or top whether that had anything to do with the problem or not. However if he mods just the door instead of the top of the fridge he can return the failing fridge body for repair/replacement without the repair facility being the wiser. And he can get the fridge repaired under warentee as the manufacture allows for.

However it is possible that I am being naive and the OP intends scam a new fridge somehow but I tend to believe in people unless proven wrong.

Craig

BFauska said:

What if you drilled through a replacement door and saved the original? Then if the unit fails you return it with the original door. The manufacturer allows you to remove the door, otherwise you couldn't change the R/L handed orientation. Is that dishonest? I realize this is a serious gray area, but ultimately it's virtually identical to the other way.

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It all comes down to what the manu permits. IMHO, if you ordered a replacement door, and saved the original, it is unlikely that they would dishonor the warranty.

Bottom line, if you can get them to honor the warranty and NOT lie or deceive to accomplish that, more power to you.

pldoolittle said:

If the warranty says modifications voids the warranty (as almost all do), then your warranty is void.

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If he returns a fridge that is unmodified, then the warranty is intact. There is no way around that, it's legal and that's the end of it. And morally, there is nothing wrong with returning the fridge if it malfunctions due to problems not caused by modifications.

CBBaron said:

I've got to believe that you misunderstand his intentions. If he has a warrentee issue with his fridge they will likely give him grief about the hole in the door or top whether that had anything to do with the problem or not. However if he mods just the door instead of the top of the fridge he can return the failing fridge body for repair/replacement without the repair facility being the wiser. And he can get the fridge repaired under warentee as the manufacture allows for

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I too think the OP was discussing a normal compressor failure within the warranty period. But listen your own words; "without the repair facility being the wiser" Sorry, but the phrases "without the repair facility being the wiser" and "repaired under warranty as the manufacture allows for" can not coexist.

Bottom line, if you had to deceive them it is wrong.

mr x said:

If he returns a fridge that is unmodified, then the warranty is intact. There is no way around that, it's legal and that's the end of it. And morally, there is nothing wrong with returning the fridge if it malfunctions due to problems not caused by modifications.

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Please explain how a fridge that has been drilled and had it door replaced with a door scuttled from another fridge is "unmodified".

As for the legality, that's up to the manufacturer. So why don't you afford them the opportunity to make that decision by telling them the TRUTH? If as you say, it's moral and covered under warranty, there should be no need to deceive them.

Funkenjaeger,
Thanks for the link! I'm really pleased that the shanks fit without even removing the molded plastic inner door. This will let me use the 4" stainless shanks from NB.

max

pldoolittle said:

Please explain how a fridge that has been drilled and had it door replaced with a door scuttled from another fridge is "unmodified".

As for legal, that's up to the manufacturer. Why don't you afford them the opportunity to make that decision by telling the TRUTH?

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I was building on the example of the OP taking a new door and putting it on a fridge with a failed compressor. Now it is unmodified (it is OEM equipment in perfect condition) and the warranty is still valid; and the legality is not defined by corporations, it is defined by the government in any case.

I have paint protection warranty on my car. Can you imagine them not honoring a defect on the hood because I had the quarter panel replaced?

mr x said:

If he returns a fridge that is unmodified, then the warranty is intact. There is no way around that, it's legal and that's the end of it. And morally, there is nothing wrong with returning the fridge if it malfunctions due to problems not caused by modifications.

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Knowing that they most likely won't repair a unit that has been modified. He buys a new fridge switch the doors and sends the old fridge with the new door to get his money back is stealing. He's getting a new fridge for free. Now if they were smart and check the SN on the unit and the box and see that they don't match good bye money and hello fraud.

So basically, you are making the case that you cannot replace any part for any reason and still have a valid warranty.

And he is not getting a new fridge for free, he is getting his fridge repaired under warranty.

I love these ethics debates here. Good stuff.

The OP actually said "I can buy another, swap doors, and return the original one". This says nothing about warranty and it's a common scam. It's usually done as way to extend your warranty indefinately as long as they still make the same model.

mr x said:

So basically, you are making the case that you cannot replace any part for any reason and still have a valid warranty.

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No. I am making the case that you cannot have a valid warranty unless such replacement is allowed within the terms of the warranty. And if you have to lie to the manufacturer to make them believe that

mr x said:

Now it is unmodified (it is OEM equipment in perfect condition)

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No, it is not unmodified. It has had parts replaced. The fact that they are OEM parts does not make it unmodified.

mr x said:

and the warranty is still valid; and the legality is not defined by corporations, it is defined by the government in any case.

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A warranty is a written contract between you and the manufacturer. In that contract they offering to provide something of value (a replacement) in return for certain considerations on your part. One of those considerations is (typically) that the unit not be modified or altered in any way. If the contract contains such language and you do modify the unit (even if it looks identical, you have breached the contract and the manufacturer is perfectly within their rights not to honor their commitment to replace the unit.

As for legality, it's simple contract law. If you feel that you have fulfilled your part of the contract, and they have not, you can sue them in an effort to have the judge force them to honor the contract. But that brings us back to square one again. Unless you deceive the judge, she/he will rule that you have modified the unit and that the manufacturer was withing their rights to nullify the warranty

The bottom line is that unless you can exercise the warranty by telling the truth, it's neither moral or ethical.

mr x said:

So basically, you are making the case that you cannot replace any part for any reason and still have a valid warranty.

And he is not getting a new fridge for free, he is getting his fridge repaired under warranty.

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The OP never mentioned the word "repaired." The word he used was "returned."

His plan is to do an end run around his voided warranty, by buying another fridge, swapping doors and returning his OUT OF WARRANTY fridge for a refund, under false pretenses. It's slimy and dishonest, no way around it.

Punching holes in the fridge voids the warranty, the purchaser knows that going into the deal. If he doesn't like those terms, he shouldn't buy it...not just figure out a way to defraud the store.

I believe the magnusson moss act states that for the manufacturer to void your waranty they have to show that your modification caused the failure or the need for repair/replacement. With this in mind your warranty would still be intact with a hole in the fridge for a tower if the compressor was the failed part. However, convincing the customer service personel of this would be another thing entirely and I dont think a mini fridge is worth lawyer fees.

Paul

edit- i just saw that he intended to return it, thats different than having warranty work done