AG Equipment/Moving to AG too soon?

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NoNothing

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I have done searches and I have been watching the AG forum I just have a few questions that I cant seem to find the answer to elsewhere.

First off, Im loving homebrewing. I mentioned to my dad that I was homebrewing and he about died. He mentioned he used to want to get into it but never got around to it and wants to help me out however he can. I started talking to him about how I eventualy wanted to go to all grain and he said why not just do it now. Well, thats a pretty damn good point. Why not? Ive only made 1 homebrew so far and it was extract. Ive been reading about all grain for a long time and some things are still confusing me, but thats what google/HBT is for :).

So, does anyone think it could be "too early" to get into all grain? Should I stick to extract for a few more months to learn more about brewing as a whole?

I have a 30qt pot right now I use as a boil kettle, I was planning on using that to heat up my sparge water and the initial water that goes in the MLT. I am planning on a cooler for an MLT but still confused about why get a false bottom over a mesh screen? And I am making 5 gal batches and dont plan on changing the size I make for a while so I was thinking just getting a 10gal+ cooler for my MLT.

And what is the advantage of getting a HERMS setup?


Thank you for helping another lost noob.
 
I think it's fine to go AG whenever you like. For many people, extract works fine forever, or at least lets them get a good grasp of the fundamentals without worrying about strike temps or whatever.

FWIW. I brew low-gravity 5gal batches; they fit (tightly) in a 30qt brewkettle and 5gal MLT cooler.
 
i am about to start doing all grain. The only problem i see is like the above post mentioned 30qt is small. You will be boiling about 6 gallons if you are going to try to get good efficiency.

i am using fly's 10gallon drinking cooler MTL, + homemade wort chiller (50ft)+ 9.5 gallon pot( got for 20 dollars used) making the first batch next week.

the false bottom is the least of the methods i have seen. Most seem to use the copper pipe or cpvp manifold. At the moment i am using a stainless steal braided cord but i will switch to a manifold after a few batches.
 
So, does anyone think it could be "too early" to get into all grain?

Never too early to go AG if you can afford the equip. For me, Cost and fear were my big EXCUSES not to go AG. I finally had to quit sniveling and MAN UP! (No Offense Yooper, Nurmey, Laurel...any other women that would kick my All Grain A$$)
For the cost of 2 or 3 extract kits, I went all grain. There is no reason you (or a crafty buddy) cant build a manifold and figure out how to take the drain plug out of a cooler. Cabalas has fryers on sale for like $30 some times, so that isn't even an excuse. I'm A Totally Low Rent Ghetto As Hell Hill Billy Red Neck Beach Bum Brewer, but I'm doing it ALL GRAIN.
 
Never too early to go AG if you can afford the equip. For me, Cost and fear were my big EXCUSES not to go AG. I finally had to quit sniveling and MAN UP! (No Offense Yooper, Nurmey, Laurel...any other women that would kick my All Grain A$$)
For the cost of 2 or 3 extract kits, I went all grain. There is no reason you (or a crafty buddy) cant build a manifold and figure out how to take the drain plug out of a cooler. Cabalas has fryers on sale for like $30 some times, so that isn't even an excuse. I'm A Totally Low Rent Ghetto As Hell Hill Billy Red Neck Beach Bum Brewer, but I'm doing it ALL GRAIN.

Well, BK, you got a quote there for my signature now!

I don't know anything about HERMS set ups, or anything "fancy"- I'm still brewing in my kitchen with pieced together equipment. My point is- you don't need much to go AG. Sure, a HERMS or RIMS is awesome. But, you can make good beer with a bucket in a bucket if you have too. You will need some sort of brew kettle, and that's the big expense. Actually, you need two bigger pots, one for heating sparge water while the first runnings are being drawn off. I use my "old" brewpot for the sparge water, and the turkey fryer pot for my brewpot. You can easily build a MLT with a cooler if you don't have a keg MLT. There really isn't a ton of stuff you need, since you'd have most of the equipment already with extract brewing.

If you're down in the central UP sometime, you are invited to come to a brew day at my house and you can see an AG batch with minimal equipment. Just let me know if you're interested.
 
Cost and fear were my big EXCUSES not to go AG.

Cost isnt as huge of an issue for me but fear is what Im most concerned about. I do plan on still just buying "kits" while brewing AG for a while, but grain kits :).

Is there a large advantage to a manifold vs a mesh screen like the Bazooka screen on NB?

And it sounds like a 10 gal brewpot is in my future alongside an MLT.


YooperBrew: I will send you a PM.
 
One thing I should mention that I am still confused about.

What negative would there be for buying a larger MLT than I need. I plan on doing only 5 gal batches for a while. If I were to go with a 10Gal Rubbermaid cooler would I be shorting myself good beer?

I was thinking of just going with the 5 Gal AGS on the top of the page here http://www.northernbrewer.com/allgrain.html
Apart from cost is there an advantage to just building my own? Though cost is a huge one, I dont know that I really need the other 5Gal cooler for sparge water. However, I could put a water heater element in it and use it as a HLT like: http://powersbrewery.home.comcast.net/~powersbrewery/hlt.html
 
If you want to do all grain, I don't see an advantage to waiting. I've never used extract, but it seems to me the things that are unique to all grain you don't get practice while doing extract anyway, like hitting your mash temps, water profile, etc.

Maybe it will reduce your fear to research, learn, and plan. In my case it took me a while to feel like I was ready ready to start. I think if you have a good plan it can't go wrong. And don't worry about hitting your temps and OG exactly -- if you have a good recipe it will still be good.

I think brewing all grain is more than worth the extra bit of work.
 
If you want to do all grain, I don't see an advantage to waiting. I've never used extract, but it seems to me the things that are unique to all grain you don't get practice while doing extract anyway, like hitting your mash temps, water profile, etc.

Maybe it will reduce your fear to research, learn, and plan. In my case it took me a while to feel like I was ready ready to start. I think if you have a good plan it can't go wrong. And don't worry about hitting your temps and OG exactly -- if you have a good recipe it will still be good.

I think brewing all grain is more than worth the extra bit of work.

i started typing something out, but decided to just quote you instead b/c you said exactly what i was going to.

also, i like your username :)
 
the first AG i saw was at a brew day at Bobby_M's place and i was dumbfounded by how complex it all looked. but that was about two weeks into my brewing career and i'm ready to move up as soon as i can use up the remnants of my bulk LME purchase!

definitely go and see a brew out if you can - and read up on the basic principles and what's going on. i went to see a second brew day in spring and i felt that i knew what was going on. this will make it easier when you make the move!
 
One thing I should mention that I am still confused about.

What negative would there be for buying a larger MLT than I need. I plan on doing only 5 gal batches for a while. If I were to go with a 10Gal Rubbermaid cooler would I be shorting myself good beer?

I was thinking of just going with the 5 Gal AGS on the top of the page here http://www.northernbrewer.com/allgrain.html
Apart from cost is there an advantage to just building my own? Though cost is a huge one, I dont know that I really need the other 5Gal cooler for sparge water. However, I could put a water heater element in it and use it as a HLT like: http://powersbrewery.home.comcast.net/~powersbrewery/hlt.html

If you plan on batch sparging(very easy) the size of the cooler doesn't really matter. Always plan on buying bigger than you'll think you'll need. I was sure I would always be happy doing 5 gallon batches, I was wrong
Read this before you buy anything
http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/
 
God Almighty, NoNothing, that is a cool avatar.

Thanks! I was sick of having no avatar so I whipped something up quick in GIMP.

Ive been doing a lot more forum browsing and reading posts I thought I had throughly read and Im gathering that if I am batch sparging the grainbed depth is not a huge issue. Im thinking of doing a FlyGuy cooler conversion this upcomming week with my dad unless a Northern Brewer kit seems like a better idea, time is becoming an issue for me with school coming up. So I have to travel :(.

Im still on the fence between 10 and 5 gal MLT and manifold vs mesh screen.
 
If you plan on batch sparging(very easy) the size of the cooler doesn't really matter. Always plan on buying bigger than you'll think you'll need. I was sure I would always be happy doing 5 gallon batches, I was wrong
Read this before you buy anything
http://hbd.org/cascade/dennybrew/

Awesome! thanks for the link. It sounds like I'll just go with exactly what FlyGuy did as the size doesnt matter with batch sparge.
 
Im still on the fence between 10 and 5 gal MLT and manifold vs mesh screen.
Get the 10 gallon. There really is no such thing as too big. I have the "Cheap and easy 10 Gallon..." from that thread and I've used it for as small as a 3 pound partial mash. It works good for everything. Don't know about manifold vs. mesh screen.... I use the SS braid and it seems to work for me.

I plan on moving to all grain very soon as well, can't wait. Just need to finish my chiller.
 
i went into AG after 4 extract batches and i loved it. The expierence is soooooo much better than extract. invite ur dad over and do it with him...thats what i did and we had a great time!
 
I only did 1 extract before moving to AG. I went with a 50 qt rectangular cooler and a ss braid. It has given me 78 and 84 % efficiencies. Welcome to the club.
 
Thanks! I was sick of having no avatar so I whipped something up quick in GIMP.

Ive been doing a lot more forum browsing and reading posts I thought I had throughly read and Im gathering that if I am batch sparging the grainbed depth is not a huge issue. Im thinking of doing a FlyGuy cooler conversion this upcomming week with my dad unless a Northern Brewer kit seems like a better idea, time is becoming an issue for me with school coming up. So I have to travel :(.

Im still on the fence between 10 and 5 gal MLT and manifold vs mesh screen.

I had the same 5 gallon vs. 10 gallon dilemma- and the guys here on the forum talked me into the 10 gallon cooler, even though I've never made a 10 gallon batch. And I'm so glad! I've had some small beers (doing one today with only 9 pounds of grain) and some bigger beers (25 pounds of grain), and never maxed it out. I can go to 10 gallon batches, too, when I'm ready. If you buy a 5 gallon cooler, you'll probably want a 10 gallon cooler within a year. Not a problem if you want to use the 5 gallon cooler as an HLT then, but cheaper to just buy the 10 gallon one at the start, especially if you batch sparge.
 
YooperBrew, you never cease to help me out :)

Im going to go with a 10Gal rubbermaid cooler and the conversion FlyGuy did. And Ill do that conversion with my dad and we can have some fun :).

And Im planning on buying the 10 Gallon megapot without ball valve or thermo from here http://www.northernbrewer.com/kettles.html

Any advice on a different pot or is that a good buy? And thanks for the help everyone. I apreciate it.
 
I would go with the 10 gal MLT. We still only do 5 gallon batches, but like the idea that we could do a split, or a partygyle any time we want :D

Ours has a bazooka screen , and we've never had a stuck sparge. Two quarts recirc on a batch sparge gets the runnings nice and clear. We get about 75 - 80% efficiency on this setup.

Regarding pots, we fantasize about stainless steel, and were using the turkey fryer pot that came with the burner (or a tamale pot we bought in Mexico?) until we saw a 52 quart tamale pot at the local Hispanic grocery for $32 :rockin: I thought we wouldn't have to worry about boilovers any more, but hubby managed to do one :ban: If you love the SS and dont mind the extra $$, do it!

I still don't know if I ever want a ball valve on a pot, we use loose whole hops and they make such a good filter bed when racking. But you do what works for YOU, right?

+1 to just starting AG - all the reading made much more sense when we started doing it.
 
Ill look around localy for a bazooka screen but may end up just going with the SS braid due to time constraints.

And I dont really see the need for a ball valve on my brew pot, so Im going to avoid that, I can always add one later.

Thanks for all the help!
 
I don't know whether you are single or married, with or without kids as they can dramatically change your habits and time for your hobbies.

That being said I would go with a turkey fryer and large cooler to start off just to see if you really get hooked. Don't spend too much money until you are sure you're going to be doing this 5-10 years down the road. I'm not trying to dissuade your purchase but people come and go in this hobby so think before you spend the big bucks.
 
I don't know whether you are single or married, with or without kids as they can dramatically change your habits and time for your hobbies.

That being said I would go with a turkey fryer and large cooler to start off just to see if you really get hooked. Don't spend too much money until you are sure you're going to be doing this 5-10 years down the road. I'm not trying to dissuade your purchase but people come and go in this hobby so think before you spend the big bucks.

I agree, just stick with the turkey fryer setup and you will be happy with that.
 
I don't know whether you are single or married, with or without kids as they can dramatically change your habits and time for your hobbies.

That being said I would go with a turkey fryer and large cooler to start off just to see if you really get hooked. Don't spend too much money until you are sure you're going to be doing this 5-10 years down the road. I'm not trying to dissuade your purchase but people come and go in this hobby so think before you spend the big bucks.

You know, Ive always just assumed Im going to enjoy this hobby, and I have so far! I love it!

But Ill for sure take that advice to heart.

And I am a single college student. So Im free as far as kids/family goes :).
 
I don't know whether you are single or married, with or without kids as they can dramatically change your habits and time for your hobbies.

That being said I would go with a turkey fryer and large cooler to start off just to see if you really get hooked. Don't spend too much money until you are sure you're going to be doing this 5-10 years down the road. I'm not trying to dissuade your purchase but people come and go in this hobby so think before you spend the big bucks.

I agree that you don't want to rush in and spend all your money if you aren't sure you will like it forever. However, if you really think this is something you want to get into, I STRONGLY suggest, not wasting money on less than ideal equipment. I wasted a lot of money on intermediate upgrades that I used for 3-4 batches and then replaced with what I really wanted in the first place.

I suggest thinking about what kind of system you will want 2 years from now, instead of the cheapest way to start AG.

First off, most people who do AG upgrade to a 10g system (not all, just most) because it takes the same amount of time and you get twice as much beer while still having a reasonable amount.

Second, do you want to use a cooling, a direct fired, a HERMS/RIMS, a steam heated, etc. mash tun. What type of system do you want?

Third, do you eventually want a single tier system, etc.?

Once you get these basic dream ideas down, you can start smartly building toward that system while making better beer in the short term.

For example, if I were you, I would start by purchasing a 15 gallon brew kettle (if not all three vessels right away) so I could accommodate both 5g batches for the short term, and 10g batches down the road. These are a good choice.

I would then start looking into burners, fittings, stands, etc. and build toward my future dream setup while maintaining my brewing status.

An extra year or two brewing extract will not kill you and by the time you collect enough pieces to go AG, you could be well on your way to the system of your dreams.

This is just the way I would suggest going about it. The other way is to spend $10 on Flyguy's MLT and build equipment as you go.:mug:

If you do want to start building toward a dream system, there are plenty of resources here to do research with. "Search" is your friend.
 
You know, Ive always just assumed Im going to enjoy this hobby, and I have so far! I love it!

But Ill for sure take that advice to heart.

And I am a single college student. So Im free as far as kids/family goes :).

I started like you, in college. I would even more strongly suggest buying nice equipment off the bat then.

I finally decided I had had enough of piling cinder blocks and paint cans to arrange my brewery and am starting to build my dream system. I will be out of brewing commission for upwards of a year, but it will be worth it in the end. Check out my build thread if you are interested.
 
I started like you, in college. I would even more strongly suggest buying nice equipment off the bat then.

I finally decided I had had enough of piling cinder blocks and paint cans to arrange my brewery and am starting to build my dream system. I will be out of brewing commission for upwards of a year, but it will be worth it in the end. Check out my build thread if you are interested.

Im digging your build.

But one thing I have to keep in mind right now is space. I am in a house at school and an apartment at "home" for the summer but space still comes up. I only have so much space in my room (much taken by 3 computers) and so much basement space. So I dont think a teir setup is really for me, other than loose items I place in a single teir on the ground/stools when I am brewing :D.

In 2 years I would like to be at a teir system though. And I know I will be able to aquire keggles durring the school year. I am in college, kegs are easy to come by in frat houses that havent been returned and wont be.
 
And Im planning on buying the 10 Gallon megapot without ball valve or thermo from here http://www.northernbrewer.com/kettles.html

I'm a newbie to all-grain so I don't know whether it represents a good buy as far as price, but I have that pot (with the ball valve/no thermo) and brewed my first batch with it a couple of weeks ago. Very nice. Can't see how you could be sorry if you bought it.
 
I'm a newbie to all-grain so I don't know whether it represents a good buy as far as price, but I have that pot (with the ball valve/no thermo) and brewed my first batch with it a couple of weeks ago. Very nice. Can't see how you could be sorry if you bought it.

That is an awesome pot. The only potential problem is size. If you want to do a 10g batch, you will need a larger pot.
 
But if Im doing 5 gal batches 15 gals seems like huge overkill

It is indeed. The only thing is... you can brew 5 gallons in a 15 gallon pot, but you cannot brew 10 gallons in a 10 gallon pot.

I bought the smaller pot when I first started doing full boils, and now I use it for decoctions, so I guess it wasn't a waste, but I still needed to buy the larger pot...

Do not fear. At worst, in a year or a couple, you can sell or trade your smaller pot on the classifieds here, that is if you ever decide to up your batch size.
 
Well, the 15 gal pot isnt a huge price difference.

But Im worried about only taking up 1/3rd of the pot while Im burning, and my whimpy 55k BTU burner heating all that. AND the surface area increase for more boil off when I dont want it.

I do think I will be doing 5 gal batches for a year easily. I dont see myself doing more than that. I can only drink so much :D.
 
I know how it is, and a lot of guys who have the time choose to do twice as many 5 gallon batches instead of one 10g batch sighting the variety as the advantage.

As far as over kill pot size... It doesn't matter, I know a bunch of brewers here use their 10g setups for 5g batches on a regular basis.

I use a 55k burner and it works just fine. Those huge BTU burners may get you to boiling a couple minutes faster, but as it stands, my 55k gets me to a rolling boil in under a half hour.

The boil off will likely be larger but it all depends on your individual setup.
 
I bought a 15 gallon pot even though I seriously never planned on doing 10 gallon batches (the deal I got made the 15 cheaper). Within a week after getting the pot, I started thinking about the fact that I have a birthday in a few months and would love to have a TON of my Pale Ale available so that we could play beer pong all night (I know, college friends :fro: ) without needing any BMC. I haven't actually done it yet, but I'm glad I can for when the time comes.

Trust me, even if you don't plan on doing 10 gallon batches all the time, there are times when you will think its nice to have the option.
 
Well, I bought the parts for my MLT with a 10 gal cooler today and have that all together minus the braid on the inside. One thing I have always wondered. What about the wort that is below the line of the nozzle? Do people tilt the MLT to get all the wort out or just leave it chillin in there?

Now I just need to find a pot and get it. I have about a $200 budget for a brew pot but saving is always a huge bonus (buy some grain :D)

All Im hearing so far are plusses for just going all in on a 15gal brew pot. Anyone think I should just get a 10 gal and call it a day? think 15 gal is over kill? I could make a keggle but I dont have the tools handy, possible to get some from friends I suppose. I do feel more comfortable having a brew pot be a brew pot and not a keggle, but to use kegs for MLT/HLT I dont have an issue down the line.
 
Well, I bought the parts for my MLT with a 10 gal cooler today and have that all together minus the braid on the inside. One thing I have always wondered. What about the wort that is below the line of the nozzle? Do people tilt the MLT to get all the wort out or just leave it chillin in there?

Now I just need to find a pot and get it. I have about a $200 budget for a brew pot but saving is always a huge bonus (buy some grain :D)

All Im hearing so far are plusses for just going all in on a 15gal brew pot. Anyone think I should just get a 10 gal and call it a day? think 15 gal is over kill? I could make a keggle but I dont have the tools handy, possible to get some from friends I suppose. I do feel more comfortable having a brew pot be a brew pot and not a keggle, but to use kegs for MLT/HLT I dont have an issue down the line.

I went with a 15 Gallon Aluminum stock pot that was on Amazon for $44. Good prices can be found on Aluminum pots if you look.
 
+1 on the aluminum pot (superior to SS in my opinion)

And +1 on the tilt (get every drop you can!)

Both 10 gal and 15 gal pots are fine for brewing 5 gal batches. I go back and forth between my 7.5 gal (30 qt) pot and keggle all the time. It doesn't really affect my brewing technique (other than evap rate). Personally, I would look at what quality of pot you can get for the best price, and make volume secondary.

Best of luck! :mug:
 
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