Centennial/Cascade IPA

I just bought a pound each of centennial and cascade. It will be here Tuesday, so I will brew on Wednesday. I love Sierra Nevada Celebration Ale, but I want a lower ABV. I don't usually use much crystal in my IPAs, but I thought I would use 12% this time, and mash low so that I have the taste of the crystal without it being too sweet.

Here's what I"m thinking so far (10.5 gallon batch):

16 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 65.31 %
6 lbs Vienna Malt (US) (3.5 SRM) Grain 24.49 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 6.12 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 20L (20.0 SRM) Grain 4.08 %

1.50 oz Chinook [11.50 %] (60 min) Hops 28.1 IBU
1.50 oz Centennial [9.60 %] (15 min) Hops 11.6 IBU
2.00 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (15 min) Hops 8.7 IBU
1.50 oz Centennial [9.60 %] (0 min) Hops -
2.50 oz Cascade (homegrown) [5.00 %] (0 min) (Aroma Hop-Steep) Hops

1.00 oz Centennial [9.60 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops
2.00 oz Cascade [5.40 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -

S05 ale yeast.

OG of 1.060
IBUs 49

Anybody have any thoughts? The fairly large amount of crystal is unusual for me, but I really want a hoppy beer balanced by strong malt undertones and sweetness but still under 6% or so. I think that's a tall order, actually, but I want to try it.

Looks great to me, but you are the expert, not me. How low are you mashing? 150 or so?

skeezerpleezer said:

Looks great to me, but you are the expert, not me. How low are you mashing? 150 or so?

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Probably 150-151. I have a tendency to attenuate really well, so any lower and I'd end up at 1.006 or 1.007!

I brewed something extremely similar to this, could not get any chinook, but subbed with Columbus for bittering...

Like I said, it was very close, but what will the 20L do to the beer? I only put 60L in mine along with the others... My LHBS told me a grain website so I could look them up, but forgot to write it down... But back to you... looks tasty... send samples.

I agree about going with one crystal malt. I'd just go with C40 or 60 for 10% and not mix the two. I like mixing crystal malts in bitters and porters, though in an IPA your not going to get the same complexities with all the hops and high bitterness.

Well if you are going with 1.060 OG, and aiming for at or below 6% abv, you are looking at a fairly high terminal gravity, making for a sweet finish. I would personally aim for a slightly lower OG, maybe mid to upper 50's and have aim for a terminal around 1.011-1.013.

What about throwing a little bit of chinook in the dry hop?

I just did a Chinook IPA and used two crystals, 10# 2row and then .75# crystal 60 and .25# crystal 120.. not too sweet and a good counter to the hops.

Yooper said:

Probably 150-151. I have a tendency to attenuate really well, so any lower and I'd end up at 1.006 or 1.007!

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Damn! I thought my saison drying to .007 was good.

As for the C20 and C60, I would roll with what you have posted. You are definitely one of/the most knowledgale APA/IPA posters on here. You know what you are doing. I like to use about a lb. In a 5g batch and also use a light/dark mix sometimes. No bad experiences yet.

Hops look great, but what if you split the 60 chinook and 0 centennial up, .75 of each at 60 and 0 to get some more of that Chinook aroma/flavor in there?

Yooper, why not try all late hop additions? You can really emphasize the malt profile with a smooth bitterness and hop flavor using this method, to my understanding. My next brew is a Wheat IPA where I plan to do all late additions and really looking forward to it.

Really great tips everybody!

I'm not sure about hopbursting this one, but I will consider it for sure. I really want a nice firm bitterness, to counteract the crystal malt sweetness somewhat while having both.

I always like to mix crystal malts, as I think all 20L would be too carmelly sweet, and all 60L would be too "deep" or dark. But I think that with all the hops there, the complexity probably will be lost.

I have to see how much chinook I have. But using more is a great idea!

Well, I simply reduced the grainbill slightly to 1.054, so it's just a tad bit under the IPA BJCP OG for American IPA. I used S04 in 5 gallons, and S05 in 5 gallons. The S04 version finished at 1.012, while the S05 version finished at 1.010, so 5.74% ABV in one while 5.48% in the other keg. That's about right for me!

I kegged it last night, and it turned out really good! While 10% crystal is far more than I've typically used, I'm happy with it. There is a strong distinct bitterness (ended up using the chinook for FWH) but it's mellow and the centennial/cascade flavor is prominent. There isn't much residual sweetness at all perceived in the swallow or in the mouthfeel. It's got a medium-low body to it so it's drinkable in quantity, I think. We'll see how it is in a few more days when it's fully carbed and some of those pesky dryhops stop floating!

I'm really happy with this recipe, and how it turned out.

This reminds me. I love boulevards nutcracker last year and had to find out what i liked about it so much,found out about how they dryhopped actually(wethopped)with Chinnok not shure of the other bittering.Ive just noticed a mild likeness for Chinnook as far as bittering in mine, but i may not be using them in the right styles i guess.I also havent dryhopped with them or even used them in late additions much i think.

jonmohno said:

This reminds me. I love boulevards nutcracker last year and had to find out what i liked about it so much,found out about how they dryhopped with Chinnok not shure of the other bittering.Ive just noticed a mild likeness for Chinnook as far as bittering in mine, but i may not be using them in the right styles i guess.I also havent dryhopped with them or even used them in late additions much i think.

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I think chinook is a "love or hate it" kinda hop. I love it. But I've heard lots of people describe it as harsh. I like it in dryhopping with other hops, as it provides a flavor you can't get from other hops.

Well i just found out i use some for a wheat, and pilsner as bittering/ aroma, and also and amber. Its hard to point out with the other ingredients and using a modest amount.
Iguess im kinda a fan of wet hops which is what Boulevard used.Then again im all about sierrra nevadas' estate ale when that comes out in october again wet hops/( not chinnok )though..Ive seen Estate still around here still but wont buy them much, i just know the difference.And also the Life and limb is coming out buyING at least two if i find them so i can put one away. ramble,ramble. nEVER tried that one.

We're having a few more glasses of this tonight.

Overall, I'm really happy with it. Next time I think I'll back off of the bittering hops a bit (maybe 1.25 ounces chinook FWH) but otherwise I won't change it a bit. It didn't finish at all sweet, but instead is a nice balance of hops and malt. The crystal is great in it.

I might try it with Wyeast 1450- Denny's Favorite 50 since I think that can further enhance the mouthfeel and the malt balance. Overall, I'd say this was a big sucess since Bob LOVES it. He's already talking about me brewing it again. I said, "Um, Bob? We have a tad over 10 gallons of it currently." He said, "Oh. Well, you'd better get brewing it again right away- it's going to go fast!" :rockin:

Yooper said:

Well, I simply reduced the grainbill slightly to 1.054, so it's just a tad bit under the IPA BJCP OG for American IPA. I used S04 in 5 gallons, and S05 in 5 gallons. The S04 version finished at 1.012, while the S05 version finished at 1.010, so 5.74% ABV in one while 5.48% in the other keg. That's about right for me!

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How do you feel about the flavor of the 2 different yeasts you tried? Or have you only tapped one of the batches?

I recently tried Lagunitas IPA for the first time and liked it a lot as a sweeter change of pace. I gather they use a British yeast, so I've been thinking about trying S04 in an IPA, rather than my usual S05 or Pacman. I haven't been thrilled with the other beers (mostly pale ales) that I've fermented with S04, though, as I find its flavor has dominated more than I would like.

artguy said:

How do you feel about the flavor of the 2 different yeasts you tried? Or have you only tapped one of the batches?

I recently tried Lagunitas IPA for the first time and liked it a lot as a sweeter change of pace. I gather they use a British yeast, so I've been thinking about trying S04 in an IPA, rather than my usual S05 or Pacman. I haven't been thrilled with the other beers (mostly pale ales) that I've fermented with S04, though, as I find its flavor has dominated more than I would like.

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In this batch, I prefer the S05 although the S04 is fine and much clearer! In this case, the S05 allows the hops to shine through a bit better, while the S04 is a bit "muddy". I don't think it's a profound difference, but noticeable when they are tasted head-to-head.

I've been using English yeast quite a bit in my IPAs, though. I started with Wyeast 1335 in my Surly Furious Clone:

YEAST STRAIN: 1335 | British Ale II™
A classic British ale profile with good flocculation and malty flavor characteristics. It will finish crisp, clean and fairly dry.
Origin:
Flocculation: high
Attenuation: 73-76%
Temperature Range: 63-75° F (17-24° C)
Alcohol Tolerance: approximately 10% ABV


I LOVED that! But the S04 just isn't quite as good, in my opinion. The nice thing is it makes a super clear beer because of the high flocculation, while S05 takes a bit longer. I ferment on the cool side, so I haven't had an issue with esters or any detractions from the hops except for that "muddiness" I mentioned. It's not really a muddy flavor, but more that the hops are a bit muted compared to the S05.

We drank more than a few glasses of it yesterday, and we both enjoyed it though. (The s04 version, that is!)

Thanks for the feedback! Sounds like I'm going to have to try Wy1335 at some point. I have just gotten too much of a "dirt" flavor for my taste when I've tried fermenting with S-04, but I like the way the malt comes through in some of the commercial beers I've tried that use English yeasts.

BTW, I share your love of the hopping in SN Celebration Ale....really yummy combo, and I used it as inspiration for my most recent IPA that's currently in secondary being dry hopped. Here's that recipe, 6 gallon batch:

OG: 1.067 SG
FG: 1.014 SG
ABV: 7.2 %
IBU (Tinseth): 70
8.3 SRM

Fermentables
US 2-Row Malt 6lb 0oz (46.2 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Pale Ale Malt 6lb 0oz (46.2 %) In Mash/Steeped
UK Medium Crystal 10.00 oz (4.8 %) In Mash/Steeped
Belgian Kiln Amber Malt 6.00 oz (2.9 %) In Mash/Steeped

Hops
US Chinook (11.1 % alpha) 1.00 oz Loose Pellet Hops used First Wort Hopped
US Cascade (5.4 % alpha) 1.00 oz Loose Pellet Hops used 20 Min From End
US Centennial (9.1 % alpha) 0.50 oz Loose Pellet Hops used 20 Min From End
US Chinook (11.1 % alpha) 0.50 oz Loose Pellet Hops used 20 Min From End
US Cascade (5.4 % alpha) 1.00 oz Loose Pellet Hops used 5 Min From End
US Centennial (9.1 % alpha) 0.50 oz Loose Pellet Hops used 5 Min From End
US Cascade (5.4 % alpha) 1.00 oz Loose Pellet Hops used At turn off
US Cascade (5.4 % alpha) 1.00 oz Loose Pellet Hops used Dry-Hopped
US Centennial (9.1 % alpha) 0.50 oz Loose Pellet Hops used Dry-Hopped
US Chinook (11.1 % alpha) 0.50 oz Loose Pellet Hops used Dry-Hopped

Yeast:S-05

Mashed @ 148-149F

DannPM said:

Yooper, why not try all late hop additions? You can really emphasize the malt profile with a smooth bitterness and hop flavor using this method, to my understanding. My next brew is a Wheat IPA where I plan to do all late additions and really looking forward to it.

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while not that experienced yet i've decided i don't see a huge difference with just a 60 min. and 5 min-flame out additions and just letting them steep while it cools.

NitrogenWidget said:

while not that experienced yet i've decided i don't see a huge difference with just a 60 min. and 5 min-flame out additions and just letting them steep while it cools.

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I do. I just did a Cream of Three Crops with one addition of Amarillo at 25 minutes. It really comes through, almost too much.

Had an ounce and made a three gallon batch. Twenty-five minutes was the perfect amount to get the ibu's I wanted. Got the ibu's. Not real big on the flavor. Think I'm just an old traditional hops person.

All the Best,
D. White