The Walking dead

Talgrath said:

A very interesting episode, pretty sure that the only teenage girl in the apocalypse, Enid is working with the wolves. She leaves Carl a note with the same initials as what she was writing on various things at the beginning of the episode, Just Survive Somehow, does that mean she likes him and wants him to stay alive despite knowing the wolves will (try to) kill everyone? Or maybe she's just super paranoid and doesn't know who the wolves are, but ran anyway.

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Thanks for the JSS translation - didn't catch that. Also, I think she's just crazy. Who eats a box turtle! And why not keep the shell?

Talgrath said:

How did Morgan get to the town so quickly when everyone else is apparently still out there? Did everyone else stay back to try to deal with the big zombie crisis? It looks like we may find out he answer next week. I loved the little bit at the end there, where Carol goes one way and Morgan the other, after Carol apparently realized she needs to be a little more compassionate and Morgan realized he needs to be a little less keen on keeping his opponents alive.

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I found that annoying, too. It could not have been long for them to make it from where they were to the town. That doesn't make sense especially then seeing the previews for next week.

Talgrath said:

Aaron got to find out that his backpack led the wolves to Alexandria, much to his emotional distress. It's a reminder that maybe being a little too nice is a major problem for the Alexandrians. Should provide motivation for Aaron and a reason to bring him more front and center.

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Enjoyed that scene a lot.

Talgrath said:

Finally, I loved that first wolves kill, where Carol is just standing there watching her neighbor smoke and *slice* guts everywhere!

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Epic!

That was the best episode going back a number of seasons.

I seem to recall in the first ep after ******-guy gets face-bit Rick tells Morgan to go back to town and let everyone know what happened. That's why he's only one back. Also keep in mind that whole attack took the course of like 40mins (going off kitchen timer Coral put in)

iijakii said:

I seem to recall in the first ep after ******-guy gets face-bit Rick tells Morgan to go back to town and let everyone know what happened. That's why he's only one back. Also keep in mind that whole attack took the course of like 40mins (going off kitchen timer Coral put in)

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Good point, that's right, Morgan was supposed to head back early. I completely forgot that bit, and I just watched the premier on Saturday!

What do you think the one wolf guy meant when he said "we didn't choose this" or whatever it was he said to Morgan. Also, a lot of those wolves seemed to recognize Morgan. I know there was that brief scene a while back where Morgan ran into 2 of the wolves but it seems like there is something more between him and them.

Go Carol Go!

Two takes on the 'We didn't choose' line.
1. I didn't choose the the thug life. The thug life chose me.
2. The Wolves were capturing a few people. Carol and Morgan were faking captor and captive. A wolf said to Carol, "Good catch". I suppose they are catching and eating some people, and others they force into their conscript army. I suspect the ones with a W scarred into their foreheads are conscripts.

Good take on it. I was thinking it was more along the thug life chose them -- not their fault the zombie apoc happened.

Zuljin said:

Two takes on the 'We didn't choose' line.
1. I didn't choose the the thug life. The thug life chose me.

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Kind of how I took it at the time (especially fitting in with the "JSS" theme), although #2 makes sense too.

As much as I like the new Zen Morgan, I feel like his compassion towards all life could jeopardize himself or the rest of the group. At least he killed off the Wolf in the house that he'd previously spared.

m_c_zero said:

What do you think the one wolf guy meant when he said "we didn't choose this" or whatever it was he said to Morgan. Also, a lot of those wolves seemed to recognize Morgan. I know there was that brief scene a while back where Morgan ran into 2 of the wolves but it seems like there is something more between him and them.

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I think he meant more like "this is what we were given and we are making the best of it" despite the insanity of being okay with running around slaughtering men, women and children.

I think you are reading too far into the Morgan - Wolves thing.

drainbamage said:

As much as I like the new Zen Morgan, I feel like his compassion towards all life could jeopardize himself or the rest of the group. At least he killed off the Wolf in the house that he'd previously spared.

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Do we know who the leader of the Wolfpack is (by the show - not by the comics)? For whatever reason I thought it was this guy, but now that I rethink it...probably isn't/wasn't him.

TwistedGray said:

Do we know who the leader of the Wolfpack is (by the show - not by the comics)? For whatever reason I thought it was this guy, but now that I rethink it...probably isn't/wasn't him.

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I thought it was the "we didn't choose" guy by context of the scene, but I don't have anything else to go by. I don't remember seeing him in any previous episodes.

This meme is getting overdone, but I still laughed.

View attachment 1445345059774.jpg

I was pretty underwhelmed by the wolves that attacked but they may just have been pawns rather than the real muscle. It could have just been a test attack where they were ordered to kill as many people as possible. If they all got whipped in the process, the wolves would know how badass the real attack would have to be. There is no way in hell the entire wolves gang would be without firearms.

Bobby_M said:

I was pretty underwhelmed by the wolves that attacked but they may just have been pawns rather than the real muscle. It could have just been a test attack where they were ordered to kill as many people as possible. If they all got whipped in the process, the wolves would know how badass the real attack would have to be. There is no way in hell the entire wolves gang would be without firearms.

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This. And Rick told the town to arm up. He told them.

Bobby_M said:

I was pretty underwhelmed by the wolves that attacked but they may just have been pawns rather than the real muscle. It could have just been a test attack where they were ordered to kill as many people as possible. If they all got whipped in the process, the wolves would know how badass the real attack would have to be. There is no way in hell the entire wolves gang would be without firearms.

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I don't know ... even if you are just "testing the waters" you don't go into a gun fight with a knife. I suspect they were using pokey sticks because it's quieter than gun fire.

What I don't quite get is the whole 18 wheeler. Without it, they would never have forewarned the group playing zombie parade.

Yeah, what's the point of breaching the gate anyways? They clearly didn't have a hard time mounting the walls. All that would have accomplished is ruining the town.

TwistedGray said:

I don't know ... even if you are just "testing the waters" you don't go into a gun fight with a knife. I suspect they were using pokey sticks because it's quieter than gun fire.

What I don't quite get is the whole 18 wheeler. Without it, they would never have forewarned the group playing zombie parade.

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Backup plan? If they knew about the mega herd, they could either use it to cut off the outside group from the town (and delay them saving the day in time), or they use as a last-ditch effort of "if we can't have the town, no one will."

Or they were just trying to crash the gate to let in a full army, but it was better-reinforced than they expected. The horn was just bonus chaos.

Warning: Any attempts to overthink what is happening in the Walking Dead will inevitably lead you to believe that neither the Wolves, nor the Alexandrians, nor the show's writers, are effectively using their brains.

If you can suspend disbelief, it's a great show. Lots of action, interesting character development, halfway decent actors. Not 100% believable. But overall a pretty darn good show.

SWMBO thinks Enid is working for the wolves. I am doubting that, however, do you think Enid had all the keys to open the doors for the Wolves?

iijakii said:

Yeah, what's the point of breaching the gate anyways? They clearly didn't have a hard time mounting the walls. All that would have accomplished is ruining the town.

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The Wolves seem intent on destroying any towns or safe havens, remember last season when they get to Noah's place and Michonne is saying how great it could be and then they find the huge hole that's been rammed into the wall? Same sort of thing, the Wolves could have taken that place too (maybe even easier than Alexandria), but instead they destroyed it. I think they're some sort of nihilistic cult of sorts, believing that no place is safe and all safe havens must be destroyed; maybe to make humans stronger or something like that. Remember that the tied up guy said "places like this don't exist anymore".

Talgrath said:

I think they're some sort of nihilistic cult

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“Say what you will about the tenets of National Socialism, Dude, at least it's an ethos.” -- Walter

TwistedGray said:

What I don't quite get is the whole 18 wheeler. Without it, they would never have forewarned the group playing zombie parade.

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They needed something to put all the new "Zombie Trap Zombies" in.


Or perhaps make a new "Zombie Trap" right in the town.

Bobby_M said:

I was pretty underwhelmed by the wolves that attacked but they may just have been pawns rather than the real muscle. It could have just been a test attack where they were ordered to kill as many people as possible. If they all got whipped in the process, the wolves would know how badass the real attack would have to be. There is no way in hell the entire wolves gang would be without firearms.

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Absolutely. Guns should be available everywhere people once lived. They don't evaporate...Zombies don't eat them.

BamaProud said:

Absolutely. Guns should be available everywhere people once lived. They don't evaporate...Zombies don't eat them.

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There may be low ammo though,
I think the wolves probably have guns.

What did the guy that morgan was tying up say? Something about needing him to tell him about the trap? I thought morgan was going to die. I thought the house he was walking into with the guy he killed was the house with the towns armory and the chick was in the pantry ready to shoot on carol's order.

lupulinaddict said:

I thought the house he was walking into with the guy he killed was the house with the towns armory and the chick was in the pantry ready to shoot on carol's order.

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+1, had same thought

I thought for sure Carol would get mistakenly shot running around undercover.

lupulinaddict said:

There may be low ammo though,
I think the wolves probably have guns.

What did the guy that morgan was tying up say? Something about needing him to tell him about the trap? I thought morgan was going to die. I thought the house he was walking into with the guy he killed was the house with the towns armory and the chick was in the pantry ready to shoot on carol's order.

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That was the case in the show Revolution. They were simply running out of ammo.

Spyk'd said:

They needed something to put all the new "Zombie Trap Zombies" in.


Or perhaps make a new "Zombie Trap" right in the town.

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Very nice!

Oh, and now I'm just gonna drop this here...

Now I'm thinking.

How much ammo do you think the average gun owner has? Let's say one gun. I bet it's 20-50 rounds. If they own more than one, it's probably 20-50 for each, for hand guns and non high capacity rifles and shotguns. The AR, AK, SKS and Mini 30 type guys probably have 100+ for each of those. Especially the ~.30 cal guys. That ammo is still plentiful and inexpensive. Shoty guys maybe, too. If it's dove or duck season, or they shoot skeet, yeah. 100+. Okay. This is a difficult number to determine.

We're in season six. I think about 550-600 days has elapsed in show time. Would I still have ammo in my existing stock (about 1,000 rounds. Yeah. We have to account for all the mes out here, too.) after 550 days of ZA? If I spent all 550 days here in suburbia? I doubt it.

So, I run out of ammo. I get Zd. Some one finds my guns. Okay, but I'm out of ammo. They'd do best to grab the 9mm and SKS. Maybe the shotties. They're popular. Probably ammo for them somewhere. Or would it be best to grab the odd stuff? Maybe people have passed over that ammo because a .22 Hornet isn't as common as a .22 LR. Then again, there's less of that out there to begin with. Naw. Folks would grab any and all ammo (currency) they could.

What about black powder? Hey, if you can get a suitable ignition and propellant, some rocks or nuts will do for projectiles. Then again, people would snatch up the powder for fire starting.

I think when it comes to it, after 550 days of no new ammo being made, finding any would be getting rare. We'd have to hope for a mil surp score. And even then, those places would probably be occupied by whomever was closest to them. I know I'd camp like a mofo on something like that.

Zuljin said:

Now I'm thinking.

How much ammo do you think the average gun owner has? Let's say one gun. I bet it's 20-50 rounds. If they own more than one, it's probably 20-50 for each, for hand guns and non high capacity rifles and shotguns. The AR, AK, SKS and Mini 30 type guys probably have 100+ for each of those. Especially the ~.30 cal guys. That ammo is still plentiful and inexpensive. Shoty guys maybe, too. If it's dove or duck season, or they shoot skeet, yeah. 100+. Okay. This is a difficult number to determine.

We're in season six. I think about 550-600 days has elapsed in show time. Would I still have ammo in my existing stock (about 1,000 rounds. Yeah. We have to account for all the mes out here, too.) after 550 days of ZA? If I spent all 550 days here in suburbia? I doubt it.

So, I run out of ammo. I get Zd. Some one finds my guns. Okay, but I'm out of ammo. They'd do best to grab the 9mm and SKS. Maybe the shotties. They're popular. Probably ammo for them somewhere. Or would it be best to grab the odd stuff? Maybe people have passed over that ammo because a .22 Hornet isn't as common as a .22 LR. Then again, there's less of that out there to begin with. Naw. Folks would grab any and all ammo (currency) they could.

What about black powder? Hey, if you can get a suitable ignition and propellant, some rocks or nuts will do for projectiles. Then again, people would snatch up the powder for fire starting.

I think when it comes to it, after 550 days of no new ammo being made, finding any would be getting rare. We'd have to hope for a mil surp score. And even then, those places would probably be occupied by whomever was closest to them. I know I'd camp like a mofo on something like that.

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I just want to know how Daryl still has f**king arrows for the crossbow. There have been multiple "battles" where the were on the defensive and he wasnt able to retrieve his arrows.

As for ammo, I know myself, along with family members and some friends usually have a few thousand rounds on hand (we shoot regularly). Ammo will run out though. Id be making a wicked long bow. Infinite arrows.

I love how much effort we all put into this after Sunday night. If you all put this much thought into the zombie apocalypse, I would love to try your best homebrew effort!!

Zuljin said:

Now I'm thinking.

How much ammo do you think the average gun owner has? Let's say one gun. I bet it's 20-50 rounds. If they own more than one, it's probably 20-50 for each, for hand guns and non high capacity rifles and shotguns. The AR, AK, SKS and Mini 30 type guys probably have 100+ for each of those. Especially the ~.30 cal guys. That ammo is still plentiful and inexpensive. Shoty guys maybe, too. If it's dove or duck season, or they shoot skeet, yeah. 100+. Okay. This is a difficult number to determine.

We're in season six. I think about 550-600 days has elapsed in show time. Would I still have ammo in my existing stock (about 1,000 rounds. Yeah. We have to account for all the mes out here, too.) after 550 days of ZA? If I spent all 550 days here in suburbia? I doubt it.

So, I run out of ammo. I get Zd. Some one finds my guns. Okay, but I'm out of ammo. They'd do best to grab the 9mm and SKS. Maybe the shotties. They're popular. Probably ammo for them somewhere. Or would it be best to grab the odd stuff? Maybe people have passed over that ammo because a .22 Hornet isn't as common as a .22 LR. Then again, there's less of that out there to begin with. Naw. Folks would grab any and all ammo (currency) they could.

What about black powder? Hey, if you can get a suitable ignition and propellant, some rocks or nuts will do for projectiles. Then again, people would snatch up the powder for fire starting.

I think when it comes to it, after 550 days of no new ammo being made, finding any would be getting rare. We'd have to hope for a mil surp score. And even then, those places would probably be occupied by whomever was closest to them. I know I'd camp like a mofo on something like that.

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In the US, after the zombie apocalypse at least, finding guns and ammunition would be exceedingly easy, really. There were roughly 347 million guns in the US for about 330 million people, or about 1.1 guns for every man, woman and child in 2012. Exactly how many of said guns are actually functional is unclear, but given that guns tend to be fairly durable I'd guess most of them are in a functional or near-functional state where repairs would be fairly simple (cleaning/oiling/etc.). Tracking down the exact amount of ammo in the US is difficult, no official statistics are kept on it. The best info I can find is a now dead link to a Wired article claiming 10 billion bullets were sold privately in the US in 2013, which would be about 30 bullets per person in the United States; but bullets are largely non perishable and many gun owners keep literally thousands of rounds of ammunition on hand for their various guns, it's also worth noting that according to some estimates the vast majority of guns in the country are concentrated in the hands of a small percentage of "mega owners" who own an entire "arsenal"; some estimates put about a third of the privately owned guns in the US in the hands of about 5% or less of the US population.

So, knowing what we know about the current state of guns in America, looking at the fictional world of "The Walking Dead", I'd estimate there's roughly 10% of humanity still alive in the US, meaning not a walker or a permanently dead corpse. That would mean That there's roughly 11 guns per person alive in the US, and billions of bullets, more than enough to wipe out the zombie menace...if you can find it. This seems to match up with what we've seen in the show, Alexandria has an entire room jam-packed with guns and ammo, to the point that Lydia the storeroom clerk doesn't even notice three pistols missing. That said, the key to getting guns would be to find a place that hasn't been looted, the majority of US guns are almost certainly in police stations, military bases and the homes of "gun enthusiasts", so you need to do something like what Rick did on episode 1, get to a Sheriff's office and get an arsenal.

So my overall conclusion? Either the Wolves have been very, very unlucky, the group we saw was only expendable "shock troops" as part of a larger plan or they have mostly abandoned such civilized concepts as the firearm. Personally, I suspect option 3, given how easily every other group ont he show has gotten a sizable arsenal.

Talgrath said:

So, knowing what we know about the current state of guns in America, looking at the fictional world of "The Walking Dead", I'd estimate there's roughly 10% of humanity still alive in the US, meaning not a walker or a permanently dead corpse.

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I just had this Very discussion the other day with a friend of mine who is a huge fan of the show. My thought was guns and ammo, canned goods and gasoline should be plentiful given that most everybody is either dead or the undead. I speculated the human population was single digits (5%)based on what we see or don't see In the show so plenty of supplies to found for years to come with only 15-16 million humans left in America out of the 320-ish million pre-apocalypse population left standing. My buddy thinks my 5% guess might be generous obviously we'll never know.

I think a bigger issue than guns would be the declining quality of the the gasoline. They should be having some problems operating their vehicles by this point.

Disclaimer: I know. It is a zombie show. Unlimited guns and ammo and magic gas that lasts forever does not bother me any more than unlimited cross bow bolts and head shots from the back of a moving motorcycle. It's a zombie show.

Daryl retrieves his bolts.

So, how long before we spent all the bullets?

Zuljin said:

Daryl retrieves his bolts.

So, how long before we spent all the bullets?

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For the rate that they expend them, they would have to have an armory in tow everywhere they went, too.

But...Disclaimer: I know. It is a zombie show.

The gas is something I have also thought of. There may be plenty of it, but it does have a shelf life. 2 years I believe...

Natdavis777 said:

The gas is something I have also thought of. There may be plenty of it, but it does have a shelf life. 2 years I believe...

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I know gas degrades somewhat over time especially with the ethanol they add to it.
Does anyone know if diesel would be more stable and forgiving than gas as it ages and sits in tanks for years?

CGVT said:

For the rate that they expend them, they would have to have an armory in tow everywhere they went, too.

But...Disclaimer: I know. It is a zombie show.

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It's a documentary of a history which is in the future.

ffaoe said:

I know gas degrades somewhat over time especially with the ethanol they add to it.

Does anyone know if diesel would be more stable and forgiving than gas as it ages and sits in tanks for years?

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Not only will diesel last much longer they could also use heating oil and get it from every home, school and hospital that heats with oil. That's a big reserve. They need to have more ex-military vehicles and commercial trucks. Go a little further north or inland and get some snowplows!