Belgian tripel in secondary

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SCBrewster

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Ok so last weekend I racked my tripel from primary to secondary after 2 weeks. I added the 3.15lbs of lme at the beginning of the boil and added the 6lbs at the end. I read that this would help lighten up the color? This makes no sense to me but I thought I would try it. Looking at the tripel in the secondary it looks dark and reddish.. Is that normal?
 
It keeps the color lighter because the wort will darken more with a concentrated boil. It is called melanoidin reactions.

The reason it looks darker in the ferementor is that it is a large volume. It you were to pour some in a glass you would see that it would look much lighter.
 
Oh ok. What about the reddish tint though? Is that normal for a belgian tripel?
 
It is in the red spectrum. I bet if you were to put some in a glass though you would see that it is pretty gold. What was your recipe?
 
Oh I see. I don't recall the exact recipe but it is the NB belgian tripel extract kit
 
Here's another question. The directions from northern brewer say 2 months in the secondary after two weeks in primary. Is this necessary?
 
Secondary is not really necessary. Just get it fermented out all the way until it is done and then bottle it up. You can age it in the bottles.
 
secondary will help it clear more and is basically aging it. if you want to age the beer for a while all together vs just in the bottle then leave it in secondary. a lot of poeple like the taste of fresh tripel so that's a consideration. i personally would maybe leave it in there for a week or 2 and then bottle.

a lot of people don't secondary because it technically isn't necessary. i stopped for a long time and have done it a couple times recently which really helped clarify my beers.
 
So secondary is where a lot more of the spent yeast will drop out making it clearer. Correct?
 
depends on the yeast strain but yes more does generally drop out as well as the opther material that's in there. how much headspace is in your secondary fermenter.
 
I'm not 100% sure. I did a 5 gallon batch and then you figure I lost about 1/2 gallon in yeast cake when transferring. I have a 6.5 gallon carboy so about 2 gallon headspace give or take
 
so you have 2 6.5 gallon carboys? If you are making 5 gallon batches and not dry hopping then you should have the least amount of head space exposed because of potential oxidation. You are probably fine but it's just something to note in the future.

These are glass carboys, no?
 
I have a bottling bucket that I also use as a primary fermenter. I think that's like 7.5? And then a glass 6.5 gallon carboy
 
If you are making 5 gallon batches and not dry hopping then you should have the least amount of head space exposed because of potential oxidation.
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^^This^^

Another reason to just package it as soon as it is done. I would just start it in the 6.5 gallon carboy and leave it in there until it is clear enough to bottle next time. While some will probably disagree with me, I know first hand that fermenting in plastic buckets will give you much more oxidation into your beer over glass. Just keep your bucket for bottling and use the carboy for fermentation.

There really isn't any need to transfer your beers anymore. If you don't have any other means to clarify it like cold crashing, you can just leave it sit in the fermentor for a month or so and it should be clear enough to package. The best thing for a new brewer to do is to forget the whole primary/secondary thing unless you are adding fruit to a beer. There is really no such thing as primary or secondary, there is only the fermentor. When it is done fermenting, then you transfer to the package.

Oxygen(after fermentation) is absolutely your biggest enemy, and I don't think enough gets said to new brewers about it. Most people worry about infections. While infections can be bad, most brewers shouldn't have any problem with them as long as they are using proper cleaning and sanitizing steps. Oxidation, however, can be quite a bit trickier to minimize.
 
Ohhhhh man. Every time I post one question it opens up a bunch of others and a basket of worms
 
What happens when beer gets oxidized? Funny flavor? Off colors? Explosions? Apocalypse?
 
SCBrewster said:
Ohhhhh man. Every time I post one question it opens up a bunch of others and a basket of worms
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^^^ Get used to it, it does. I agree with you AND, I also found out that you will ask a question, and,say the 1st 5 answers you get all agree with each other.The n you get 2 "OTHER" answers that do not agree with the 1st 5 answers ?????

I get that alot on these threads. My conclution is; You have to read and research, AND then Do what YOU think would be the best way to do what you were asking from all of the information you garthered. You may find you do it the way you have been doing it, AND then youll find even a BEtTER way!:drunk::drunk::drunk:
 
Depending on your beer oxidation can be a desirable quality (in russian imperial stouts, old ales, barleywines, etc), however, not in a Tripel. Oxidation can darken the color of a beer and give it sherry and papery/cardboard flavors. Once the beer is exposed to oxygen these flavors can take a while to develop (2ish months).

You might be OK as there is a layer of co2 on top of your beer when you are fermenting in primary and some is released when transferring into secondary.

However, it is generally best practice to reduce this by leaving a very small amount of surface area exposed in secondary and/or not doing a secondary fermentation.

If you want to take an extra step you can get a co2 tank and purge all the vessels you are racking into when racking to secondary, bottling, etc. This works because co2 is heaver than oxygen so it will go to the bottom of a vessel and work its way up. It's also a step into the kegging territory.

You definitely never want to secondary in a bucket as usually the seals aren't 100% effective. Isn't usually an issue in primary because co2 is actively being produced.

You are probably fine but it's just one of those lesson learned things. I would bottle this one and drink it within the next couple months before the potentially oxidized flavors develop.
 
Ok as far as the comment on secondary goes. I was told not to leave a beer on the yeast cake for more than 2 weeks in primary because the off flavors will start leaching into it. So say for this tripel it says 2 weeks in primary and two months in secondary. If I left it in primary for 2 and a half months would those flavors not leach into it?
 
At the risk of complicating things, I'm going to suggest a few things to consider with a tripel.

First, I do think a secondary is important with high gravity beer. The alcohol is quite toxic to the yeast and they will start to die. I like to leave the beer in primary about three weeks to a month then transfer to a secondary vessel for lagering and clearing. For most others beers, you can get them out of fermentation in a few weeks without issues -- but not a tripel.

I roll ghetto stylee. So I "lager" by having the carboy sit outside in a carboard box protected from the sun. Right now, it's about 40-50 during the day and 22-28F at night. The beer stays right around 30-34F. It won't freeze until it gets to about 27F in the carboy. This helps get a lot of yeast and protein bits out. I do this for a few weeks. If it gets too cold, I put it in the basement at 50-52F.

I also add fresh yeast at bottling. I think this is important with a big beer. The yeast in suspension is weak and fixing to die as it stews in a toxic blend of alcohols in the fermentation vessel so a little fresh yeast seems to help. You could rehydrate some S-33 yeast which costs about $2 per pack, and throw about a quarter teaspoon of the rehydrated mix into your bottling bucket.

I figure about two months is accurate. 3 weeks primary, 3-5 weeks in a clearing vessel / lagering.

You can read endless pros and cons about using a secondary vessel. For smaller beers, I don't use it. For longer term aging or clearing of big beers I do use it. But I'm just a noob not some pro.
 
Ok I have heard a couple people mention addding extra yeast at bottling. This makes sense since like you said most of it will be dead or weak. Will this help it to carb up quicker too then?
 
SCBrewster said:
Ok I have heard a couple people mention addding extra yeast at bottling. This makes sense since like you said most of it will be dead or weak. Will this help it to carb up quicker too then?
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Yes it will. By re yeasting you will be able to avoid posting later that it has been 6 weeks and your beer isn't carbed yet.

For my Belgian styles I have been going with cheap ole champagne yeast. All you need is a a couple of grams of the dry yeast and you are good. It can tolerate the high ABV just fine and carb up your bottles.
 
Perfect! That's EXACTLY what I needed to know haha. And if I can drink this earlier and not have to wait any longer than I already am I will be a very happy camper lol
 
Just went online to buy some s-33 and get this its only $2 but everywhere I look wants like 6-9 dollars for shipping. Bogus. And my LHBS is an hour and a half away (sucks I know) know of a good site that doesn't charge an arm and a leg for shipping?
 
I usually re-pitch on bigger beers. It really doesn't matter which one you use (won't contribute any character to the beer since it's not really going to be fermenting anything) as long as it is able to stand up to the alcohol you are pitching into. What's the % on the Tripel? I would for sure rehydrate it before you pitch it to avoid shocking the yeast.
 
highgravitybacon said:
At the risk of complicating things, I'm going to suggest a few things to consider with a tripel.

First, I do think a secondary is important with high gravity beer. The alcohol is quite toxic to the yeast and they will start to die. I like to leave the beer in primary about three weeks to a month then transfer to a secondary vessel for lagering and clearing. For most others beers, you can get them out of fermentation in a few weeks without issues -- but not a tripel.

I roll ghetto stylee. So I "lager" by having the carboy sit outside in a carboard box protected from the sun. Right now, it's about 40-50 during the day and 22-28F at night. The beer stays right around 30-34F. It won't freeze until it gets to about 27F in the carboy. This helps get a lot of yeast and protein bits out. I do this for a few weeks. If it gets too cold, I put it in the basement at 50-52F.

I also add fresh yeast at bottling. I think this is important with a big beer. The yeast in suspension is weak and fixing to die as it stews in a toxic blend of alcohols in the fermentation vessel so a little fresh yeast seems to help. You could rehydrate some S-33 yeast which costs about $2 per pack, and throw about a quarter teaspoon of the rehydrated mix into your bottling bucket.

I figure about two months is accurate. 3 weeks primary, 3-5 weeks in a clearing vessel / lagering.

You can read endless pros and cons about using a secondary vessel. For smaller beers, I don't use it. For longer term aging or clearing of big beers I do use it. But I'm just a noob not some pro.
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To address this comment, there is nothing wrong with doing that HGBacon says here. It's interesting with the lagering aspect as you normally don't lager with ale's since the esters that the yeasts produce are desirable as well as some other compounds that may diminish with lagering.

However, the whole clearing process can also be done in the bottle if you wait long enough. The difference is that the beer isn't aging all together which may or may not impact the flavor. It is also possible that the beer will be a bit clearer if you do a secondary.

As for the autolysis (yeast stressed out) aspect, with the minimal amount of yeast that makes it into the bottles it's really not much of a concern, from what I understand.

In general if you don't secondary your beer might be a little less clear and have a little more sediment on the bottom of the bottle. Whether it's worth it to wait the extra time (doing a secondary) for the beer to be ready is up to you.

There's also an argument that aging a beer in a bottle with the yeast is better as yeast aids the beer in aging and preventing oxidation.

Again there are many different rationals on this one and it's an ongoing debate.

I generally don't do secondary's but I do sometimes if I want my beer to be clearer. I have also started to cold crash in primary which has greatly helped my beers with their clarity.

Also, when you rehydrate the yeast I would just pitch the whole pack, that's what I usually do...
 
Pitch the whole pack into the bottling bucket after rehydrating? That won't make a difference from the suggested .5 grams?
 
In my experience it doesn't really matter, I just do the whole pack because if I don't I am just wasting a pack of yeast. I believe the recommended amount is something like 10% of your original amount you pitched in primary but I haven't seen any ill effects from doing a while pack in 5 gallons. It's up to you.
 
Well I sure hope by doing this Ill have a drinkable beer after a couple weeks in the bottle rather than having to wait a month or two
 
Pitch the whole pack into the bottling bucket after rehydrating? That won't make a difference from the suggested .5 grams?
Click to expand...

In my experience it doesn't really matter, I just do the whole pack because if I don't I am just wasting a pack of yeast. I believe the recommended amount is something like 10% of your original amount you pitched in primary but I haven't seen any ill effects from doing a while pack in 5 gallons. It's up to you.
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If you were going to cellar the beer for a year or two before drinking it, then it would matter. I am guessing that you will be drinking it up pretty quick and it won't matter.

The recommended pitching rate for bottling yeast is 1 million cells per ml. Now, that is figuring that you have either filtered or fined out all or most all of the original yeast. Too much sediment will throw off flavors, but not for while. I use finings on my bottle conditioned Belgians and re yeast them with 1 million cells per ml, but I plan on keeping them around for 3-5 years in the bottle and I don't want a ton of sediment.
 
Machine,

1 million cells per ml seems a bit high... is that right? I thought that was the suggested rate to have a healthy fermentation...

if that's the case then isn't one dry pack to little of an amount for 5 gal?

What does 1 million cells for you equate to in packets/liquid yeast?
 
1 million cells per ml seems a bit high... is that right? I thought that was the suggested rate to have a healthy fermentation...
Click to expand...

That's 1 million cells per ml per degree plato for fermentation

What does 1 million cells for you equate to in packets/liquid yeast?
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I used about 3 grams of dry champagne yeast last time I bottled up a Belgian Quad. You really only need a gram, which is approximately 20 billion cells. I wanted to make sure I had enough to get it spread around though, as I don't have a professional system and a way to inject it inline with a beer transfer like I'm sure the pros do.
 
I'm just gonna do about half a packet of s 33 rehydrate it and call it good. That's somewhere in the middle of everyone's opinions
 
so machine, have you gotten off flavors from beers that were over pitched at bottling which were subsequently aged for many years? I am just curious as I have never considered it as a problem.
 
Hopper5000 said:
so machine, have you gotten off flavors from beers that were over pitched at bottling which were subsequently aged for many years? I am just curious as I have never considered it as a problem.
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I haven't, but I have just gotten into bottling and archiving strong Belgian beer. I had always kegged them in the past, but I have been playing around with bottle conditioning lately. I have read and heard it multiple places though from people that I trust. Even the Belgian brewers will strip all the original yeast out and re yeast for bottling. I figure that its easy enough to throw a couple of grams of champagne yeast in at bottling to ensure a stable product.
 

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