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go_inbroke

go_inbroke

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Put a batch in the fermentor 5 days ago. (Multi-Grain Red with Safale S-04) OG @ 1.057. Little activity through the airlock, but foam on the wort for 3 days. Now no activity. Took a reading and it came in @ 1.02. I'm used to 1.01 after at least two weeks. Question: Should I wait and take another reading in 10 days or re-pitch?
 
I'm pretty new to brewing but honestly I would not even be looking at it at the 5 day mark. If it were me I would be asking like you are but would wait until at least 10 days to take a FG on it and wouldn't do anything with until at least 14 days. The IPA I have in Ferment has been in 14 days and I haven't even touched it. I'll take a gravity this Thursday and may bottle this coming Saturday if it's ready.
 
This is my 5th batch and I am worried because of the lack of airlock activity. I have always had good, aggressive, yeast activity.
 
Airlock activity is not a reliable indicator of the progress of the fermentation. I'll repeat that for emphasis: Airlock activity is not a reliable indicator of the progress of the fermentation.

Leave it alone. Don't take a reading or otherwise touch it until it's been 2 weeks.
 
Captain Damage said:
Airlock activity is not a reliable indicator of the progress of the fermentation. I'll repeat that for emphasis: Airlock activity is not a reliable indicator of the progress of the fermentation.

Leave it alone. Don't take a reading or otherwise touch it until it's been 2 weeks.
Click to expand...

Word. To help with the impatience, I brew more :mug:
 
Revvy said:
Your airlock bubbling or not bubbling doesn't mean your beer has stalled or not, all it means is that your airlock isn't bubbling.

A beer may ferment perfectly fine without a single blip in the airlock. Or airlocks can start or stop or start and stop again, for a ton of other reasons, like temp changes, getting nudged by the cat or the vacuum cleaner, changes in barometric pressure, but your beer could still be fermenting fine.

Or the co2 is coming out the lid, or the grommet or the stopper. Nothing wrong with that, if co2 is getting out, nothing nasty is getting in.

Airlock activity is irrevelent. Just gravity points on a hydrometer.

The rate or lack of or whether or not it bubbles at all, or if it starts and stops has more relation to the environment the fermenter is in, rather than fermentation itself. All it is is a vent, a valve to let our excess gas, especially co2, nothing else. It's not a fermentation gauge whatsoever.


The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer. It's the only way you will truly know when your beer is ready...airlock bubbles and other things are faulty.

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in.

I've never EVER needed to re-pitch, and I've been brewing more than lkely far longer than you have....Take a gravity reading.
Click to expand...


Revvy said:
Airlock activity is irrevelent. Just gravity points on a hydrometer.
Airlock bubbling (or lack) and fermentation are not the same thing. You have to separate that from your mindset. Airlock bubbling can be a sign of fermentation, but not a good one, because the airlock will often blip or not blip for various other reasons...so it is a tenuous connection at best.

Fermentation is not always "dynamic," just because you don't SEE anything happening, doesn't mean that any-thing's wrong,, and also doesn't mean that the yeast are still not working diligently away, doing what they've been doing for over 4,000 years.

That's why you need to take a gravity reading to know how your fermentation is going, NOT go by airlocks, or size of krausen, or a calendar, the horoscope or the phases of the moon (those things in my mind are equally accurate). :rolleyes:

The most important tool you can use is a hydrometer. It's the only way you will truly know when your beer is ready...airlock bubbles and other things are faulty.

The only way to truly know what is going on in your fermenter is with your hydrometer. Like I said here in my blog, which I encourage you to read, Think evaluation before action you sure as HELL wouldn't want a doctor to start cutting on you unless he used the proper diagnostic instuments like x-rays first, right? You wouldn't want him to just take a look in your eyes briefly and say "I'm cutting into your chest first thing in the morning." You would want them to use the right diagnostic tools before the slice and dice, right? You'd cry malpractice, I would hope, if they didn't say they were sending you for an MRI and other things before going in....

You took a gravity reading, so you KNOW fermentation is happening, REGARDLESS of your stupid airlock.

It's fine. :mug:
Click to expand...


see the above

-=Jason=-
 
I don't like the advice that airlock activity isn't a good determinant of fermentation. I know that it is the gospel of Revvy and many here. But from a purely scientific standpoint, fermentation produces CO2. No two ways about it. If you are fermenting, you are producing CO2. If you have a sealed system, the co2 MUST go someplace - and that place is out of the airlock. If you have a perfectly airtight system, and you are fermenting. You WILL have airlock activity. If you don't, you are not fermenting. End of story. I know this is a point of contention and that's fine. But science is science. No two ways about it.

I know that hydrometer readings are far more accurate. That is what you should go by. Its what I do go by. But saying airlock activity isn't a good measurement of fermentation, it's just not right.
 
cimirie said:
I don't like the advice that airlock activity isn't a good determinant of fermentation. I know that it is the gospel of Revvy and many here. But from a purely scientific standpoint, fermentation produces CO2. No two ways about it. If you are fermenting, you are producing CO2. If you have a sealed system, the co2 MUST go someplace - and that place is out of the airlock. If you have a perfectly airtight system, and you are fermenting. You WILL have airlock activity. If you don't, you are not fermenting. End of story. I know this is a point of contention and that's fine. But science is science. No two ways about it.

I know that hydrometer readings are far more accurate. That is what you should go by. Its what I do go by. But saying airlock activity isn't a good measurement of fermentation, it's just not right.
Click to expand...


I don't use airlocks I use blow off tubes, I could care less about bubbles, if I get krausen I know the yeast are working. I don't remove beer for at least 2 weeks only then will I take a hydro reading.

-=Jason=-
 
I'm pretty new to all this, but my first batch had lots of airlock activity, my second batch had none. Both fermented out fine per the hydrometer. I wouldn't stress about it, it'll likely turn out just fine.
 
I don't like the advice that airlock activity isn't a good determinant of fermentation. I know that it is the gospel of Revvy and many here. But from a purely scientific standpoint, fermentation produces CO2. No two ways about it. If you are fermenting, you are producing CO2. If you have a sealed system, the co2 MUST go someplace - and that place is out of the airlock. If you have a perfectly airtight system, and you are fermenting. You WILL have airlock activity. If you don't, you are not fermenting. End of story. I know this is a point of contention and that's fine. But science is science. No two ways about it.
Click to expand...

The "airlock" is a pressure release valve, nothing more. There is no reliable way to accurately gauge the state of your fermentation by observing the bubbles. The fermentation may have slowed to the point where you don't see a bubble before you get bored and declare it finished, but it is certainly still fermenting; atmospheric pressure and temperature changes can cause airlock activity to slow or speed up; the level of water or sanitizer in the airlock can also have an effect. I did a fruit beer that kept fermenting for a month after all visible airlock activity had stopped.

It's fun to watch, but all the bubbles really tell you is whether or not your beer is fermenting vigorously.
 
Captain Damage said:
The "airlock" is a pressure release valve, nothing more. There is no reliable way to accurately gauge the state of your fermentation by observing the bubbles. The fermentation may have slowed to the point where you don't see a bubble before you get bored and declare it finished, but it is certainly still fermenting; atmospheric pressure and temperature changes can cause airlock activity to slow or speed up; the level of water or sanitizer in the airlock can also have an effect. I did a fruit beer that kept fermenting for a month after all visible airlock activity had stopped.

It's fun to watch, but all the bubbles really tell you is whether or not your beer is fermenting vigorously.
Click to expand...

These points may well be true. But especially for noobs, looking for bubbling in the airlock is a very important method to make sure fermentation has started. I only ever use a hydrometer to tell when it's finished, but IMO, using a hydrometer in fresh wort multiple times trying to determine if your yeast are doing their job is an unneeded infection risk - again, especially for newer brewers.

Atmospheric pressure and temp changes can absolutely cause blips in an airlock bubble, but neither will produce constant regular bubbles. Once you see that, regardless of conditions, you know fermentation has started.
 
cimirie said:
These points may well be true. But especially for noobs, looking for bubbling in the airlock is a very important method to make sure fermentation has started. I only ever use a hydrometer to tell when it's finished, but IMO, using a hydrometer in fresh wort multiple times trying to determine if your yeast are doing their job is an unneeded infection risk - again, especially for newer brewers.

Atmospheric pressure and temp changes can absolutely cause blips in an airlock bubble, but neither will produce constant regular bubbles. Once you see that, regardless of conditions, you know fermentation has started.
Click to expand...

Not necessarily true. Many things can cause quite a lengthy and rapid stream of bubbles (depending on your ides if lengthy/rapid) during the important timeframe... and it's not like people are going to sit at their airlock 24/7 seeing if the bubbles stop for a while.

But that's besides the point, because you don't need to act on a healthy fermentation... just let it do its thing. What REALLY matters is when there is an absence of bubbled. Even a tiny, microscopic break in the seal (either at the lid or the grommet), will cause all the air to leak out that way instead of through the airlock - it only has to push out against atmospheric pressure, and so it becomes the path of least resistance compared to the additional pressure (determined by the height of the liquid) in the airlock or blow-off vessel. And this happens all the time to people, FAR more frequently than an actual fermentation no-go.

And so your logic is totally wacky, because even if you DO use the airlock to detect such problems, you STILL have to use your hydrometer to verify them. Especially since a non-bubbling fermentation likely only means a little innocuous air leak, acting on it as a fermentation problem without checking if the SG has actually changed is just absurd.

Not sure what newer brewers have to do with any of this though. I really only use my hydrometer before bottling, but I still don't use my airlock as a sign of fermentation.
 
go_inbroke said:
Put a batch in the fermentor 5 days ago. (Multi-Grain Red with Safale S-04) OG @ 1.057. Little activity through the airlock, but foam on the wort for 3 days. Now no activity. Took a reading and it came in @ 1.02. I'm used to 1.01 after at least two weeks. Question: Should I wait and take another reading in 10 days or re-pitch?
Click to expand...

Are you using a bucket or carboy. I hardly ever see airlock activity in my bucket when making beer. Ciders produce a lot though. I have know idea why. Every beer in my bucket that I thought wasn't fermenting ended up being fine.

Carboy's on the other hand I almost always see some type of airlock activity.
 
Wow. Saying you MUST have airlock bubbles with fermentation is totally wack. A vigorous fermentation will bubble like crazy. Maybe need a blow off rig. But cooler,slower ferments I've done with dry yeast sprinkled on have finished fine without a single bubble. It's not a matter of being someone's "drone",& blindly following their beliefs. That's nonsense.
Think about the rest of the science. Solution density,ambient air temps,& amount of head space all come into play here. Over & above how well the FV seals Or how much liquid is in the airlock. And how many healthy yeast cells were pitched into how much wort.
All these things contribute to how quickly co2 is produced,& how much time it takes to reach sufficient levels of pressure to be released through the one way valve better known as an airlock.
 
unionrdr said:
Wow. Saying you MUST have airlock bubbles with fermentation is totally wack. A vigorous fermentation will bubble like crazy. Maybe need a blow off rig. But cooler,slower ferments I've done with dry yeast sprinkled on have finished fine without a single bubble. It's not a matter of being someone's "drone",& blindly following their beliefs. That's nonsense.
Think about the rest of the science. Solution density,ambient air temps,& amount of head space all come into play here. Over & above how well the FV seals Or how much liquid is in the airlock. And how many healthy yeast cells were pitched into how much wort.
All these things contribute to how quickly co2 is produced,& how much time it takes to reach sufficient levels of pressure to be released through the one way valve better known as an airlock.
Click to expand...

It's not wacked. Fermentation produces CO2, period. I think you are implying above that you've fermented beer without CO2 being produced (or at least without CO2 being released from your fermenter). If so, you are wrong.

The rate of CO2 being created is affected by temperature, but at the end of fermentation, the amount of CO2 will be same regardless of the temperature. More of the CO2 will remain in solution in a cold ferment, but that's negligible compared to what is released to atmosphere.

The only reason noobs here are told not to worry about a lack of bubbles is because a lot of them use buckets, and they seem to often have airleaks through which the CO2 escapes, and so they don't see bubbles in their airlock and get freaked. Rest assured, if there was fermentation, a LOT of CO2 escaped the fermenter. Revvy's advice does not imply that there was no CO2 released, only that it might not have gone through the airlock.
 
passedpawn said:
It's not wacked. Fermentation produces CO2, period. I think you are implying above that you've fermented beer without CO2 being produced (or at least without CO2 being released from your fermenter). If so, you are wrong.

The rate of CO2 being created is affected by temperature, but at the end of fermentation, the amount of CO2 will be same regardless of the temperature. More of the CO2 will remain in solution in a cold ferment, but that's negligible compared to what is released to atmosphere.

The only reason noobs here are told not to worry about a lack of bubbles is because a lot of them use buckets, and they seem to often have airleaks through which the CO2 escapes, and so they don't see bubbles in their airlock and get freaked. Rest assured, if there was fermentation, a LOT of CO2 escaped the fermenter. Revvy's advice does not imply that there was no CO2 released, only that it might not have gone through the airlock.
Click to expand...
I was referring to what was said in the previous post. Airlocks are just a one way pressure release valve,not a gauge of activity as was insisted. I just found that if I pitched dry yeast,at a cooler temp,the co2 was produced more slowly. I didn't get any "bubbles". But it finished just the same. In one fermenter,however,I did have to cut off some molding flash where the seam ran through the lid sealing surface. Problem solved on that particular one.
But to insist that there must be bubbling is a little off to me. Some did. Some didn't. Some did a lot where a blow off was needed. Some just released a steady stream of bubbles. Each ferment is different when you do enough of them to see this. That is what we're all trying to relate here. I just like to keep it accurately described as to the actual process going on.
I may not always state the facts to everyone's grammatical satisfaction,But they are facts never the less.
 
cimirie said:
Once you see that, regardless of conditions, you know fermentation has started.
Click to expand...

Even if this statement were to be true (which it is not), airlock activity is still not a reliable indication of fermentation.

Show me an airlock that can tell me when fermentation has finished.

The original poster saw activity for a few days, then nothing. As a result, they did they took a measurement to determine if fermentation has taken place. Based on the results, it appears that it had (or more likely still is) taken place.

At this point, it has been less than a week since pitching the yeast. I would wait another week or two before taking another reading.
 
cimirie said:
I don't like the advice that airlock activity isn't a good determinant of fermentation. I know that it is the gospel of Revvy and many here. But from a purely scientific standpoint, fermentation produces CO2. No two ways about it. If you are fermenting, you are producing CO2. If you have a sealed system, the co2 MUST go someplace - and that place is out of the airlock. If you have a perfectly airtight system, and you are fermenting. You WILL have airlock activity. If you don't, you are not fermenting. End of story. I know this is a point of contention and that's fine. But science is science. No two ways about it.

I know that hydrometer readings are far more accurate. That is what you should go by. Its what I do go by. But saying airlock activity isn't a good measurement of fermentation, it's just not right.
Click to expand...

I highlighted the part that you have to look at. It assumes all systems are sealed. The brew may be producing CO2 but may be escaping someplace else and the airlock may not bubble.

Sure we all love to see the bubbles, but we cannot use the airlock as a fermentation guage.
 
KurtB said:
Even if this statement were to be true (which it is not), airlock activity is still not a reliable indication of fermentation.

Show me an airlock that can tell me when fermentation has finished.

The original poster saw activity for a few days, then nothing. As a result, they did they took a measurement to determine if fermentation has taken place. Based on the results, it appears that it had (or more likely still is) taken place.

At this point, it has been less than a week since pitching the yeast. I would wait another week or two before taking another reading.
Click to expand...

Airlock activity is definitely a sign of fermentation. CO2 is a byproduct of fermentation. You can't ferment beer without producing co2.

Show me a beer that can ferment and not produce co2. It's impossible. I agree co2 can still b produced after you've reached FG, but there's still yeast fermenting byproducts releasing co2.

Everyone says not to rely on bubbling as a indication of when fermentation is complete. I agree with this, but this is advice for the noobs.
 
KurtB said:
Even if this statement were to be true (which it is not), airlock activity is still not a reliable indication of fermentation.
Click to expand...

100% shenanigans. I stayed away after posting because we're all getting a bit off topic. But after the sane thing has been mis stated again and again, I had to speak up.

In what world is constant airlock activity not a sign of fermentation? And don't talk about temp or pressure changes. Sure, those can produce the odd handful of bubbles. Somebody else posted that "many things can produce lots of bubbles." Just not true.

I agree that to determine the end of the ferment, you need a hydrometer. But if you are bubbling regularly, your beer is fermenting. There is no logical way to debate this.

But yes, if you don't have a sealed system, you may not get bubbles (heavy emphasis on "may.". In my early days, I used scotch tape and paper to cover small holes in my bucket and that was more than enough to ensure bubbles a plenty!).
 
Using a bucket. When I saw kreusen without airlock activity the first thing I thought was a leak. I used wide tape to seal the outside of the lid. Checked the airlock for leaks. I am using a rubber stopper in the lid to hold the lock. I still had no airlock activity. The leak had to be somewhere.

Yeast pitched at 75 degrees. My fermenter is stored in a room where the air temp is 68 degrees.

The batches I have brewed before always had vigorous activity for three to four days after original airlock activity. I have never used Safale S-04 before and was unsure of it's eccentricities.

The flow chart helped to put my impatient mind somewhat at ease. The posts have really help me to stop overreacting....Thanks
 
cimirie said:
100% shenanigans. I stayed away after posting because we're all getting a bit off topic. But after the sane thing has been mis stated again and again, I had to speak up.

In what world is constant airlock activity not a sign of fermentation? And don't talk about temp or pressure changes. Sure, those can produce the odd handful of bubbles. Somebody else posted that "many things can produce lots of bubbles." Just not true.

I agree that to determine the end of the ferment, you need a hydrometer. But if you are bubbling regularly, your beer is fermenting. There is no logical way to debate this.

But yes, if you don't have a sealed system, you may not get bubbles (heavy emphasis on "may.". In my early days, I used scotch tape and paper to cover small holes in my bucket and that was more than enough to ensure bubbles a plenty!).
Click to expand...

I agree... air lock activity is a sign of fermentation... I don't think anyone is trying to deny that. However, no airlock activity is not a sign of a stuck ferment. I think that is what everyone is saying, and so, that air lock activity is not the best indicator of fermentation. If it bubbles yay we know its fermenting. If its not bubbling we dont know if it is or not because of earlier stated small escape hole, slightly loose lid, small black hole in fermenter pulling all the co2 into it, etc.
 
We are way off the original topic.

Cimirie, I can agree that given a sealed system, and ruling out things like temp and pressure changes, what most people would consider "constant airlock activity" would probably be an indication of fermentation. Your statement however, said "regardless of conditions", which is what opens the door to things like temp and pressure changes as well as infection (which I am guessing may also create airlock activity, but I don't that for sure as I have not had an infected batch yet).

Mpavlik22, I don't think anybody has stated that fermentation will not produce CO2. The discussion strayed off topic from the original post into where does that CO2 go, and if the airlock can be used as a reliable indication of fermentation. I still contend that it cannot. It certainly can be one indication of fermentation, when the system is sealed, but I guarantee that my last fermentation did not produce "constant airlock activity" as the lid on my bucket had a crack which allowed the CO2 to escape. A crack that was not noticed until I opened the bucket to transfer the beer to a secondary. Because I did not see bubbles, does that mean my wort did not ferment? Of course not.

Remember, this is the Beginners forum. From the original posters own words, this was his first batch that did not have much airlock activity. Is it not reasonible to reassure him that the lack of activity may simple have been caused by a leak somewhere in his system and that the lack of airlock activity does not mean anything went wrong, simply give it more time and then recheck the gravity with a hydrometer?

I am going to the garage now. I have an APA that I need to check the airlock on to see if it is fermenting...:D :rolleyes:

First round is on me. :tank:
 
KurtB said:
We are way off the original topic.
Click to expand...

Agreed and a lot of that is my fault so I apologize.

KurtB said:
Your statement however, said "regardless of conditions", which is what opens the door to things like temp and pressure changes as well as infection.
Click to expand...

Temp: with the temps us brewers deal with, there's not nearly enough variation to produce consistent bubbling.

Pressure: unless you're taking a carboy from Denver to Miami or racking on the tail end of a hurricane, pressure won't either.

Infection: with all sincerity, I'll say thank you. This is the first legit retort I have ever heard on this issue. My guess would that the type of infection would dictate byproducts, but some would produce gas - ie a wild yeast infection. That said, it would still be a fermentation, no?

KurtB said:
From the original posters own words, this was his first batch that did not have much airlock activity. Is it not reasonible to reassure him that the lack of activity may simple have been caused by a leak somewhere in his system and that the lack of airlock activity does not mean anything went wrong:
Click to expand...

Not at all. We're right to slow people down. My reaction (and others) was to the statement that was made here and in other threads that airlock activity doesn't mean it's fermenting. That is what is misleading. Your statements are not. Enjoy the APA!
 
Fermentor opened, secondary filled, gravity taken.....1.012!
Smells great. Tastes good. Bottle in 10-14 days....can hardly wait.

Thanks for the input and knowledge!
 
What the heck? "secondary filled" means I use a secondary. Will bottle after 10-14 days after SECONDARY. I need to have a brew.....
 
KurtB said:
I'm not going to go there, but maybe this weekend I will teach myself to drink two beers with one hand using your Avitar as a reference...:rockin:
Click to expand...

Leaves one hand free for the ladies.

The record is 6, and there's a tale of lore to this practice. Of course I am not the only one in the world who thought of this maneuver, but we perfected it.

Many moons ago, a friend and I were really in to racing sailboats. We'd basically live on boats all summer, and just travel around to different regattas every weekend. One summer, we were sailing with a man named Ron on his C&C 33 MKII named "Silver Wraith" at the infamous Youngstown Level Regatta.
[Note: The Youngstown Level Regatta has been going on forever, and is held annually at the Youngstown Yacht Club (duh) in the last weekend in July. It's a 3-day event, and attracts boats from all over Lake Ontario. There are no docks to use, so one boat will tie up to the wall and other boats will 'raft' on to that boat, and so on. It is not uncommon to see rafts of 20+ boats tied to one another. During the time of this particular story, there would have been about 500 or so boats at the Youngstown Level Regatta, with an average crew size of about 6 people per boat.]
Anyway, the way it works is there's 3 days of racing sailboats, but the real reason people go is to get drunk and laid. I know people who have illegitimate children from this party, no word of a lie. What'll happen is there will be a 53' trailer full of beer parked there, and it's all-you-can-drink all weekend long. You line up, stick two hands out, and take two beers out of the line with you. Mandatory 2 beers. This left us with a problem - you see, when you're trying to consume the maximum amount of beer, you also need a free hand to greet people and grab women as they pass. Thus, the "Silver Wraith" drinking technique was born.

The Silver Wraith was then brought back to Canada, perfected, and the following year was unleashed in full fury at the annual Easter Seals regatta at the Royal Canadian Yacht Club. At this particular event, there's some silly race and then everyone heads back to the club to enjoy free food and beer (yes, sailors still drink like sailors). Since we were able to accrue an unlimited supply of Steam Whistle pilsner and had many steady hands to participate in the endeavor, my counterpart did what was considered impossible - the 6-level Silver Wraith. There's a photo of it somewhere, and it's never been repeated as far as I know. We pretty much switched to Mount Gay Rum exclusively after that.

So yeah, if you can beat 6, you achieve immortal status. Not only is it tough to get all pouring at the same time, it's a hell of a lot of beer all at once.
Click to expand...

Actually Silver Wraith would be a good name for a beer now that I think about it.
 

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