Homebrewing myths that need to die

MalFet said:

Properly speaking, you'd then have to quantify in dollar terms and factor in the pleasure value of brewing and the displeasure costs of working, too.

...but who the #@$! wants to live like that?

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As long as you're willing to, at a minimum, work enough to make enough to continue to brew then the displeasure and pleasure cancel each other out in the long term. Any work done beyond the minimum needed to continue brewing irrelevant to the opportunity cost of brewing and shouldn't be factored in.

I do agree, though, that no one really wants to live like that. I personally have never really given it any conscious thought, but once something like that gets in my head I overanalyze the crap out of it, whether I want to or not.

nukebrewer said:

As long as you're willing to, at a minimum, work enough to make enough to continue to brew then the displeasure and pleasure cancel each other out in the long term. Any work done beyond the minimum needed to continue brewing irrelevant to the opportunity cost of brewing and shouldn't be factored in.

I do agree, though, that no one really wants to live like that. I personally have never really given it any conscious thought, but once something like that gets in my head I overanalyze the crap out of it, whether I want to or not.

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I'm currently pissed that I'm now trying to calculated my displeasure cost of reading these economic debate posts...can I send you lot a bill for my time???

Bierliebhaber said:

I'm currently pissed that I'm now trying to calculated my displeasure cost of reading these economic debate posts...can I send you lot a bill for my time???

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Sure, send me a bill for 10,000 units of pleasure. If you don't want to read it don't read it. I know we got off topic and for that I apologize, but no one forced you to read the posts to which you are referring.

P.S. Don't try an trick me. I checked and the exchange for 1 unit of pleasure is $0.000000000001 USD

To the money saving "myth"... This cannot be proved true or false 100% in every case. Everyone has different amounts of money they will or will not spend.

What it all comes down to for me?

When brewing my own beer, I become infinitely richer than the man who cannot do so and has to buy his own. I don't save money, but I have so much more to show for it than money is worth.

And lastly, almost all of these are not myths. They can be proved to have happened somewhere, sometime. A myth has to be 100% disproved. We can all argue back and forth but prove nothing. If it can be argued to the extent that we all do on here, I feel it cannot be proven 100% true or false.

But I do believe the "squeezing your grains=tannins" IS a myth, but cannot be proven 100% false, so officially just a misconception.

I think tannin extraction from squeezing is more common with small bags of grain steeped in large amounts (of sometimes to hot) high PH water than it is with large grainbags mashed in controlled ph conditions.

diodeart said:

i just hit the threshold of not saving money anymore by home brewing. it was a nice thought starting out, but equipment upgrades always seem to happen. i've spent thousands on equipment and i don't even have a herms or rims. yet.

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If you capitalize those costs and depreciate them you will be profitableipe:

Had a guy at work find out I was a homebrewer and he legitimately believed that you need to brew it in a bathtub.

I can just imagine what the mental image of that was like...

Myth: Making beer consists of only the glory of drinking and making beer. Truth: Which it would be if it were not for the damn cleanup afterwards.

myth - only white men brew beer
myth - it is impossible to reuse screw top bottles
myth - ordinary table sugar lends a cidery taste when used to prime
myth - a hard stare will shatter a glass carboy

Myth: You need a beard to attract beer faries

Myth: It is important to aerate your wort before pitching dry yeast.

Fact: Aeration is only required when pitching liquid yeasts (whether built up from a starter or directly from the smack pack/vial).

AZ_IPA said:

Mead takes years to age before it is good.

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Egads! Some meads benefit from aging, but plenty you don't want to get 2 years old. They start to.... taste funny.


I'll throw in my $0.02 about the cost. Even if you buy a $2000 setup, eventually you will break even on the cost of producing rather than buying commercial; and if you're like me you tend to subtract a large portion of your equipment cost from your 'hobby' budget.

Brewing has definitely not been and is still not my most expensive hobby. I have about $1500 in paintball equipment and $500 in western european armor sitting in my basement; $400 in archery equipment, $300 in practice swords and etc. Don't even get me started on the tools to go along with all of those

My brewing gear, including the keggerator setup i've just bought, has been about $750-$800 so far.

I've produced 6 batches of beer since August of last year (staring another today), plus about 10 gallons of mead.

Each 5.5 gallon batch costs about $25 to produce and makes about two and a half cases. A *cheap* BMC style case around here runs around $25.

Mead costs me on average about $8 per gallon to produce and yields 5 750ml bottles per gallon finished product (give or take a bit for 'testing') A cheap bottle of wine around here is about $10.

This means a net savings over buying commercial of aprx. $225 on the beer and $420 on the mead. This doesn't include labor cost or some incidental expenses (sanitizer, corks) but it still means big savings compared to commercial.


Now, back on topic.

A myth that absolutely must die is that you can't produce good beer from a kit.

Not great beer, but definitely good beer.

Especially with the kits being offered through places like OntarioBeerKegs or Austin Home Brew, they're a great way to start for new brewers.

kombat said:

Myth: It is important to aerate your wort before pitching dry yeast.

Fact: Aeration is only required when pitching liquid yeasts (whether built up from a starter or directly from the smack pack/vial).

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yeast is yeast

progmac said:

yeast is yeast

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Are you posting this comment as a "myth" or as a counter to my own comment?

Because the notion that "yeast is yeast" is indeed definitely a myth.

kombat said:

Are you posting this comment as a "myth" or as a counter to my own comment?

Because the notion that "yeast is yeast" is indeed definitely a myth.

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I had not heard that dry yeast does not need aeration.

Let me state that more clearly. I thought that, while yeasts differ, they ALL benefit from aeration.

Ahh... This one is easily answered by biochemistry. All yeast does benefit from initial aeration to get in into a reproductive phase prior to the anaerobic fermentation producing alcohol.

Large liquid starters really require it *less* than dry or yeast that is pitched from a smack pack or vial; the large starter already has tons of active, happy yeast cells.

I've brewed hundreds of gallons of beer and saved a lot of money, and I own every brewing gadget you can imagine, including a 1 bbl electric herms system. If you own a grain mill, reuse yeast, and don't buy bottles you will save money.

Myths:

Champagne yeast creates bottle bombs
Time is required for beer. Properly executed, most average gravity beers can be ready to drink in 7-14 days.
Real candi syrup can be made at home
Open fermentation doesn't do anything on a homebrew scale
All saison yeasts need to be fermented hot (3711 does best at 62 IMO)
Yeast needs to be washed before reuse (Chris White said unnecessary and not worth the risk, I agree)

Disagree on the Candi Syrup point. You just need the right ingredients and some patience for experimentation

cheezydemon3 said:

I had not heard that dry yeast does not need aeration.

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As I understand it, this myth has only been fairly recently "busted." The cite is the FAQ on the Lallemand Danstar website:

http://www.danstaryeast.com/frequently-asked-questions

I always aerate my wort when using liquid yeast. Do I need to aerate the wort before pitching dry yeast?

No, there is no need to aerate the wort but it does not harm the yeast either. During its aerobic production, dry yeast accumulates sufficient amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols to produce enough biomass in the first stage of fermentation. The only reason to aerate the wort when using wet yeast is to provide the yeast with oxygen so that it can produce sterols and unsaturated fatty acids which are important parts of the cell membrane and therefore essential for biomass production.

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cheezydemon3 said:

Let me state that more clearly. I thought that, while yeasts differ, they ALL benefit from aeration.

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As I read it, the aeration is necessary to build up the cell count to a level sufficient to ferment the beer. But a sachet of dry yeast already has enough viable cells, so there is no need to build it up further, thus, no need for aeration.

kombat said:

As I understand it, this myth has only been fairly recently "busted." The cite is the FAQ on the Lallemand Danstar website:

http://www.danstaryeast.com/frequently-asked-questions





As I read it, the aeration is necessary to build up the cell count to a level sufficient to ferment the beer. But a sachet of dry yeast already has enough viable cells, so there is no need to build it up further, thus, no need for aeration.

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That is interesting! Thanks for sharing it. By there logic, if enough yeast is pitched, liquid or dry, aeration is not needed.

Often repeated, but as far as I know never proven:
"You need to use less priming sugar when priming a keg. It has something to do with the head space."

Nope,not true. Regardless of dry or liquid,yeast need oxygen for the reproductive phase better known as the lag phase. That's all the extra cells in a dry yeast packet are there for. Now moving beyond that thought,I aerate as well as possible atm. & rehydrate yeast & get it close to wort temp so it doesn't shock. This can greatly reduce time needed for reproduction,& leave so much more healthy,viable yeast cells that a blow off is needed. Now you know.

dzlater said:

Often repeated, but as far as I know never proven:
"You need to use less priming sugar when priming a keg. It has something to do with the head space."

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You don't prime when kegging. That's the co2 cylinder's job. But some do use kegs for primary & secondary. Even priming in the keg. But it'd be exactly the same as in the UK where they have that plastic barrel on the counter to prime the beer in. Kinda like a poorman's keg. Crap I says. I'll bottle it,thank you,& won't loose carbonation as the bottle empties. Unlike priming in kegs or plastic barrels.

unionrdr said:

Nope,not true. Regardless of dry or liquid,yeast need oxygen for the reproductive phase better known as the lag phase. That's all the extra cells in a dry yeast packet are there for. Now moving beyond that thought,I aerate as well as possible atm. & rehydrate yeast & get it close to wort temp so it doesn't shock. This can greatly reduce time needed for reproduction,& leave so much more healthy,viable yeast cells that a blow off is needed. Now you know.

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What does healthy and viable yeast have to do with a blow-off? That gives a perfect example of another myth: blow-off is indicative of a "healthy" fermentation. Also, you do want some reproduction as that is when some wanted esters are produced.

unionrdr said:

You don't prime when kegging. That's the co2 cylinder's job. But some do use kegs for primary & secondary. Even priming in the keg. But it'd be exactly the same as in the UK where they have that plastic barrel on the counter to prime the beer in. Kinda like a poorman's keg. Crap I says. I'll bottle it,thank you,& won't loose carbonation as the bottle empties. Unlike priming in kegs or plastic barrels.

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I prime all my kegs, and yes, it does require less priming sugar. And no, it doesn't lose carbonation as it empties.

unionrdr said:

I aerate as well as possible atm. & rehydrate yeast & get it close to wort temp so it doesn't shock. This can greatly reduce time needed for reproduction,& leave so much more healthy,viable yeast cells that a blow off is needed.

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Ooo ooo... that reminds me of another myth:

"A fermentation that is so aggressive as to require a blowoff tube is a good thing."

Not always true. It often means you're either fermenting too warm, or overpitched. In either case, it's a recipe for off-flavors.

My beer is on par with commercial beer.

Definitely a myth. Mine is consistently mediocre.

kombat said:

Ooo ooo... that reminds me of another myth:

"A fermentation that is so aggressive as to require a blowoff tube is a good thing."

Not always true. It often means you're either fermenting too warm, or overpitched. In either case, it's a recipe for off-flavors.

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Agree with this, but it really does depend on the yeast. Some are way more aggressive/messy than others.

homebrewdad said:

Agree with this, but it really does depend on the yeast. Some are way more aggressive/messy than others.

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And the wort composition.

unionrdr said:

You don't prime when kegging. That's the co2 cylinder's job.

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Speak for yourself.

I'm using a paintball can for my keg system (I like the portability) and force carbing isn't practical when you only have 24 ounces of co2 on hand.

And even if or when I get around to buying a 5 or 20 pound canister and new regulator, I personally think some styles benefit from "bottle conditioning" in the keg.

unionrdr said:

Nope,not true. Regardless of dry or liquid,yeast need oxygen for the reproductive phase better known as the lag phase. That's all the extra cells in a dry yeast packet are there for. Now moving beyond that thought,I aerate as well as possible atm. & rehydrate yeast & get it close to wort temp so it doesn't shock. This can greatly reduce time needed for reproduction,& leave so much more healthy,viable yeast cells that a blow off is needed. Now you know.

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As I understand it, this myth has only been fairly recently "busted." The cite is the FAQ on the Lallemand Danstar website:

http://www.danstaryeast.com/frequently-asked-questions

I guess you should email Danstar and tell them they are wrong about their product.

cooldood said:

As I understand it, this myth has only been fairly recently "busted." The cite is the FAQ on the Lallemand Danstar website:

http://www.danstaryeast.com/frequently-asked-questions

I guess you should email Danstar and tell them they are wrong about their product.

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I always aerate my wort when using liquid yeast. Do I need to aerate the wort before pitching dry yeast?

No, there is no need to aerate the wort but it does not harm the yeast either. During its aerobic production, dry yeast accumulates sufficient amounts of unsaturated fatty acids and sterols to produce enough biomass in the first stage of fermentation. The only reason to aerate the wort when using wet yeast is to provide the yeast with oxygen so that it can produce sterols and unsaturated fatty acids which are important parts of the cell membrane and therefore essential for biomass production.

If the slurry from dry yeast fermentation is re-pitched from one batch of beer to another, the wort has to be aerated as with any liquid yeast.

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Looks like I was wrong about that. I find this evidence sufficient to change my position.

unionrdr said:

You don't prime when kegging. That's the co2 cylinder's job. But some do use kegs for primary & secondary. Even priming in the keg. But it'd be exactly the same as in the UK where they have that plastic barrel on the counter to prime the beer in. Kinda like a poorman's keg. Crap I says. I'll bottle it,thank you,& won't loose carbonation as the bottle empties. Unlike priming in kegs or plastic barrels.

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Lot's of people prime with sugar in corny kegs.

rexbanner said:

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Real candi syrup can be made at home

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Please explain.

I still believe in moderate aeration, simply for the fact that it has always brought about a more rapid onset of fermentation for me than by not aerating.

I hold my position for the reason that providing aeration simply by letting it drop from the pot, to the funnel, to the carboy is not only really, really easy, but that one cannot rely on the viability of many store bought yeasts. I almost always use a large starter (1L) just to ensure that the yeast is active and then use the above aeration to ensure the yeast takes hold in the wort as soon as is possible.

Walking_Target said:

I still believe in moderate aeration, simply for the fact that it has always brought about a more rapid onset of fermentation for me than by not aerating.

I hold my position for the reason that providing aeration simply by letting it drop from the pot, to the funnel, to the carboy is not only really, really easy, but that one cannot rely on the viability of many store bought yeasts. I almost always use a large starter (1L) just to ensure that the yeast is active and then use the above aeration to ensure the yeast takes hold in the wort as soon as is possible.

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Hrm. I'm a liquid yeast guy, but I know that dry yeasts don't need starters. Also, a 1L starter isn't really big.

Wow! Finally.

I never aerate and wondered why my beers turn out fantastic!lol.

I was trying hard to eff up my beer, but it always knocked people socks off.

mike_in_ak said:

Please explain.

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True Belgian candi syrup is a product of beet sugar being caramelized and depending on who you talk to, inverted; though inversion is a key part of the process and does not need to be done separately.

Now, you can't make "Belgian" candi sugar at home, unless your home happens to be in Belgium.

The two big points, it needs to be beet sugar in the eyes of most purists, and it needs to be cooked in one go, no inverting, then storing, then cooking it to consistency.

For all that, i'd rather buy the stuff at $6 a pound from OBK.

KVANTAN said:

If you capitalize those costs and depreciate them you will be profitableipe:

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That's how I justified the new brew rig... and the old brew rig... and the kegerator... and the new kegs.... and the new kettles.... ****, I'm starting to think I'm a lousy accountant....

homebrewdad said:

Hrm. I'm a liquid yeast guy, but I know that dry yeasts don't need starters. Also, a 1L starter isn't really big.

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Typing failure, i meant 2L or half a gallon. I do use 1l starters for my 3g meads though.

And I agree, fresh yeast doesn't need a starter. Until recently though, i was buying from local stores and couldn't rely on proper storage, especially for mead yeast.

Thanks to making such starters, especially for old mead yeast, i've yet to have a stuck fermentation.