Stainless Conical Fermenter from Bitter Creek Homebrew: Review ala Boerderij Kabouter

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Boerderij_Kabouter

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Hello everybody!

SuperiorBrew, a.k.a. Rich, the owner of Bitter Creek Homebrew Supply in Slinger Wisconsin is working toward bringing in high quality stainless conical fermenters from China. He started this thread at the beginning of the project.

He has graciously allowed me to be a guinea pig and use the fermenter for my next few batches to work out any kinks that may remain in the design. Rich has spent countless hours dealing with the supplier making sure that the quality is up to our standards and that every feature we could want is included in the fermenter.

Here is a list of features on this conical:

1. 16 gallon capacity (I have not measured yet, but that test is coming soon)
2. All stainless and polished
3. Welded legs
4. rotating racking arm
5. full 1" bottom dump
6. pressurizable up to 35 psi (you could carb in it if you cared to)
7. many more features that will be more apparent as this test progresses.

For now, I took a bunch of pictures and have tried to review the workmanship. In the coming days, I will fill the fermenter to test total capacity, pressure test it, and play with the dumps and venting options.

........


Without further ado...

Here is the beauty!
Conical_full_view.JPG


It has a taller slimmer profile than the Blichmann alternative. Here are the dimensions:
16 gal rated capacity
45" high w/o airlock
16" diameter
18" widest part of the clamp (upper right in my pic), can be turned any direction to fit into corner area

I really like the look of the legs. They are welded on, take no additional floor space, and look professional.

As you can see here, the shape allows it to fit very nicely in a fermentation chamber and allows a more efficient usage of available space. I tested it and I can fit the conical and two fermenters on the floor space.

conical_in_fridge.JPG


..........

Onto the details.
 
Let's start with the lid.

CIMG2638.JPG


The lid has, two welded handles that make lifting the lid, positioning, and general maneuvering nice and easy. The handles are also nice for moving the conical around when it isn't full.

CIMG2637.JPG


The lid includes this 3/8" stainless ball valve threaded to a welded fitting. The weld is clean and nicely polished.

Here is a view of the interior of the weld.
CIMG2642.JPG


and a full view of the interior of the lid.
CIMG2641.JPG


The flange is flat and polished.
 
The sealing arrangement is very nice.

A silicone gasket fits in a machined groove and is compressed by a huge tri-clamp.

CIMG2648.JPG

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CIMG2636.JPG


The groove is well machined and has no chips of crevasses. The gasket is easy to fit in and the clamp compresses evenly. It is a nice way to seal the fermenter and I can understand how it easily holds the pressure.

The process of clamping it down is as follows:

1. Sanitize the gasket
2. Sanitize the lid and the rim of the fermenter
3. Press the gasket into the groove (it is a press fit)
4. Set the lid on the gasket trying to center it
5. Wrap the clamp around the rim\
6. Engage the clamp hand knob
7. Tighten the knob to clamp lid in place

That's it and it is solid as a rock.
 
The racking arm rotates so you can easily rack off clear beer while leaving the sediment behind.

The interior arm is aligned with the ball valve handle to easily position the drain level from the outside. Full port 1/2" stainless valve and hardware so it flows nicely and matches easily with all my usual equipment.

CIMG2633.JPG


Again, the welds look very nice to me.

CIMG2631.JPG


Here are shots showing the inside:

CIMG2648.JPG

CIMG2653.JPG

CIMG2649.JPG


And the interior weld is polished like the others

CIMG2654.JPG


I will have more detailed reviews of how the racking arm works once I get some water and then some beer in this thing. For now, I think it is very well built.
 
The bottom dump is a full 1" ball valve and I think that will be a good thing. I have read many reviews of conicals with smaller bottom dumps getting clogged. I can't wait to dump some nasty trub!!! :rockin:

CIMG2631.JPG

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The polished interior is supposed to make trub and yeast collection better... we'll see.
 
And finally, the cone weld looks nice. This is a shot from the inside:

CIMG2657.JPG



.....................................................

Overall, I think the conical is well built and has some great features. I can't wait to use it.

OK comment away! I will answer any questions I can.

Rich does not have a price yet but it will be about the same as the Blichmanns. I think these fermenters are head and shoulders above the Blichmanns.

:mug:
 
Nice write-up! I can't wait to see what you think of it after you have used it. BTW... just one question.. have you ever used a Blichmann?
 
I have played with them in the store. So I basically have the same experience with those as this one. Everything I know about conicals is from reading and playing in the stores. I will be relying on others for comparisons to the Blichmann on the use portions of this review.
 
One thing that jumped out at me was the clean OD profile. Adding a DIY cooling jacket would be a snap.

That way those good looking gams can be shown off, not hidden away in a fermentation fridge. :D
 
That looks really nice. Rich is coming up with some really cool stuff.

Imagine three of those behind a bar as serving tanks... your own "mini" brewpub.

:D
 
FWIW - if it is the same price as the Blichmann but somewhat better I would spend my money on the made in the USA product. I am only tempted by made in China when it is so far below the price of made in USA stuff that I can't resist the temptation to buy. And I hate myself for doing it.

That's just my skewed view of things! I pretty much sub all domestic grains for recipes calling for foreign items as well.
 
Look's like a pretty good setup. Do you know if they plan on making a samller version? Has there been any mention of what these will cost?
 
There will be a smaller version tailored toward 5g brewers.

The cost estimate at this point is to be cost competitive with the Blichmann. I won't make any judgment yet, but based on the physical attributes, this is a way better fermenter and would be a better buy that the Blichmann IMO.
 
That thing looks awesome! Nice review as well.

But.............how much?

One option I would like to see is the possibility of adding a spray ball to the inside of the lid to recirc some star-san for ease of sanitizing (if it's a possibility)


Also, as pretty as that thing is all shined up on the outside I'd be willing to go without if it brought the price down a bit.
 
Nice! I've been looking forward to seeing pictures of one of these. Looks good.

The only concern I have are the dimensions. It's a bit "undersquare" compared to the blichmann, and while that does make it take up less floor space it is not as optimal for the fermentation process, from my understanding. Of course if it was really a concern, you could always fill it less :)

Also- if there is a worry about the bottom dump valve clogging, would the elbow and the small nipple be a problem too? Did that come with the unit?
 
Although the legs look nice I am not sure how easy it would be to add extensions to them. I used angle iron to add extensions to my Blichmann and added some caster wheels so I can move it around easily. I also like the corny lid on the Blichmann for dry hopping. The 1" bottom valve and the clean exterior for a cooling jacket are pluses on this one though.
 
The only concern I have are the dimensions. It's a bit "undersquare" compared to the blichmann, and while that does make it take up less floor space it is not as optimal for the fermentation process, from my understanding. Of course if it was really a concern, you could always fill it less :)

Not really an issue with "optimal" shape but rather an issue with adjusting your process for the different surface area for ester production. Might need to change fermentation temperature or mash temp to duplicate a previous batch that was fermented in a "standard" carboy or bucket but that's not too big a deal.

Eagerly awaiting your results, BK. :)
 
+1

My sentiments exactly

FWIW - if it is the same price as the Blichmann but somewhat better I would spend my money on the made in the USA product. I am only tempted by made in China when it is so far below the price of made in USA stuff that I can't resist the temptation to buy. And I hate myself for doing it.

That's just my skewed view of things! I pretty much sub all domestic grains for recipes calling for foreign items as well.
 
Although the legs look nice I am not sure how easy it would be to add extensions to them. I used angle iron to add extensions to my Blichmann and added some caster wheels so I can move it around easily. I also like the corny lid on the Blichmann for dry hopping. The 1" bottom valve and the clean exterior for a cooling jacket are pluses on this one though.

The bottom of each leg is threaded and comes with adjustable leveling feet, which I forgot to send along. You will be able to add extensions to it or Castor's.

2222983530101759406S600x600Q85.jpg



Also- if there is a worry about the bottom dump valve clogging, would the elbow and the small nipple be a problem too? Did that come with the unit?

No I added that and just forgot to remove it when I cycled a bunch of hot and cold water through it one day just to see if I could get the racking arm to leak, it passed with flying colors.
 
"I also like the corny lid on the Blichmann for dry hopping."

That is a fantastic point. Other wise, the entire lid would have to be removed, exposing a large area of beer.
 
Is it possible to take the Racking Arm off and take some pictures of it?

Thank you
 
Man that thing is sweet. It looks like a scaled down of the 60bbl fermenters at the breweries. I want one so bad. Bu then I would need two and I can't afford one much less two.
 
Concerning dry hopping: This lid is very easy to get on and off. If you are worried about contamination within the 4 seconds it takes to dump in some hops, then you could just crack the lid up half an inch and scoot them in there, then this lid would pose less open space than a cornie lid ;) Neither is a worry unless you ferment in a bio ridden and infested bacteria lab.

Concerning buy US: It is true that these conicals are made in China, but you are still supporting Rich. I know some people are crazy about the buy American thing, but I for one would rather support a small shop owner who is trying to offer great and progressive products that are of better quality at a lower price. Blichmann is great and I owe several of their products, but just because they are a US company does not mean I will be loyal to them over Rich. I think he is working very hard to give us some great new products and options and deserves more than, 'yeh, its not made in (or assembled in :rolleyes: the US, so his stuff is crap.' This conical is better produced IMO than the Blichmann with better features and will be at the same or lower price (I believe). If you want a US made fermenter of this quality at the same price, go make one yourself and start marketing it.

I don't want to start a pissing contest or get this moved to the debate forum. If you feel a need to buy only US made products go right ahead. Making snarky comments here doesn't do anyone any good.
 
Two of them will fit as is! :rockin: I hope someday that will be a reality.

I have my fridge set up now so I can add a second level on top of that wood rail. I use it for holding a bunch of carboys when needed.

I am talking with Rich and trying to find a Blichmann fermenter so I can do a fair side by side comparison. Hopefully both will fit in there, I know the Blichmann is considerably wider....

Updates coming soon.
 
Concerning dry hopping: This lid is very easy to get on and off. If you are worried about contamination within the 4 seconds it takes to dump in some hops, then you could just crack the lid up half an inch and scoot them in there, then this lid would pose less open space than a cornie lid ;) Neither is a worry unless you ferment in a bio ridden and infested bacteria lab.


I still like the cornie lid but that may also be because I am accustomed to using it for additions and what not. If you have not used one it may not be an issue.

I am also not sure how lifting the lid to put in a hop bag of hops will open less space than a cornie lid.

For me it would come down to price. The one feature that I like the most is the ability to close it up and throw a spudding valve on there and carbonate in the vessel.

How is the comparison going to work? Will you brew 2 batches and ferment both in different conical. I have skimmed this thread mainly looking at pictures so if I missed it I apologize.
 
Yeah, the other very cool option would be the ability to do pressurized fermentation in a conical for truly professional brewing control. That's some pretty sweet stuff! :rockin:

I am hoping to find a Blichmann fermentator and then brew two batches side by side. I haven't found a donor yet, but I have about 2 weeks till I brew my second batch that would go in the Blichmann.
 
I agree no pissing :mug: but come on, nobody is making "snarky" comments and nothing has been said or implied regarding the quality being "crap." Rich has been hinting at comparable pricing to the Blichmanns and you say "lower" than. As HellenicHomeBrewer said the jury is waiting on a price. FWIW I spent a couple of years working for a company that sourced parts from China so I know first hand how much work Rich is putting into this. It can be very much like beating your head into a brick wall. I applaud the effort Rich has made on these as they are indeed quite beautiful looking! A person could dominate the stainless conical market bringing these in at low enough prices. I myself am eagerly waiting for official pricing. Pricing? Pricing? Pricing? Pricing? :D

Concerning buy US: It is true that these conicals are made in China, but you are still supporting Rich. I know some people are crazy about the buy American thing, but I for one would rather support a small shop owner who is trying to offer great and progressive products that are of better quality at a lower price. Blichmann is great and I owe several of their products, but just because they are a US company does not mean I will be loyal to them over Rich. I think he is working very hard to give us some great new products and options and deserves more than, 'yeh, its not made in (or assembled in :rolleyes: the US, so his stuff is crap.' This conical is better produced IMO than the Blichmann with better features and will be at the same or lower price (I believe). If you want a US made fermenter of this quality at the same price, go make one yourself and start marketing it.

I don't want to start a pissing contest or get this moved to the debate forum. If you feel a need to buy only US made products go right ahead. Making snarky comments here doesn't do anyone any good.
 
I agree with your sentiments. Concerning pricing, Rich told me that he won't know the pricing until he is happy with the design and actually orders the first container of fermenters from China. I don't know anything about dealing with Chinese suppliers, but I do understand why there are no prices yet. Please be patient, I am sure Rich has everything put together.

For now, please just enjoy the pr0n, and we will get the skinny on the price later.
 
Hello everybody!

SuperiorBrew, a.k.a. Rich, the owner of Bitter Creek Homebrew Supply in Slinger Wisconsin is working toward bringing in high quality stainless conical fermenters from China. He started this thread at the beginning of the project.

He has graciously allowed me to be a guinea pig and use the fermenter for my next few batches to work out any kinks that may remain in the design. Rich has spent countless hours dealing with the supplier making sure that the quality is up to our standards and that every feature we could want is included in the fermenter.

Here is a list of features on this conical:

1. 16 gallon capacity (I have not measured yet, but that test is coming soon)
2. All stainless and polished
3. Welded legs
4. rotating racking arm
5. full 1" bottom dump
6. pressurizable up to 35 psi (you could carb in it if you cared to)
7. many more features that will be more apparent as this test progresses.

For now, I took a bunch of pictures and have tried to review the workmanship. In the coming days, I will fill the fermenter to test total capacity, pressure test it, and play with the dumps and venting options.

........


Without further ado...

Here is the beauty!
Conical_full_view.JPG


It has a taller slimmer profile than the Blichmann alternative. Here are the dimensions:
16 gal rated capacity
45" high w/o airlock
16" diameter
18" widest part of the clamp (upper right in my pic), can be turned any direction to fit into corner area

I really like the look of the legs. They are welded on, take no additional floor space, and look professional.

As you can see here, the shape allows it to fit very nicely in a fermentation chamber and allows a more efficient usage of available space. I tested it and I can fit the conical and two fermenters on the floor space.

conical_in_fridge.JPG


..........

Onto the details.

I recall a couple of years ago when these fermenters first came up on this forum that the quality was very high as these newer pictures still show but better.
The 7 gallon I recall held something like 8 1/2 or 9 gallons, more than the listed volume.
The larger 16 gallon might also hold more than the listed 16 gallons also, this would be good to know after a real water test was done.
I must add as back then I asked about having a larger capacity fermenter and was told they can make any size requested. With this I was happy as i'm wanting a fermenter that will after all the yeast, trub, spillage and what can not be racked off and still be able to have a net of three fully filled 5 gallon corny's for a net of 15 gallons for my efforts. Not 13 1/2 or 14 gallons net. If this net volume with brewing stouts which will have a larger volume of trub and yeast to dump out. That was my request to meet the the net volume from these larger fermenters. The shipping time as well the final price was also a factor asked by many members. After hearing about issues with importing and delays this fermenter went dead app two years ago until coming alive again now. Maybe with the past history behind us and China importing so many other items now these fermenter will come thru like all the other imported items. I wish you the best of luck this second go around as they blow away the Blichmann's is my opinion. Last time I mentioned that I got some replies for making this same statement, I know i'll get them again.

Back the first time a couple years ago I had a question and the answer to this reply was they can make them taller if requested and that it wasn't a problem. This had me happy and waiting as I never got the real volume measurements of the 16 gallon as it might be larger than 16 gallons like the 7 gallon fermenter holding 8 1/2 to 9 gallon instead of 7. I recall the importer was asking should he have those frementers cut down to 7 gallon in size. These volumes are off memory but I know they were more than the 7 gallon fermenter. JMO's here not to start any flame wars agains Blichmann and their faithful owners.
The only thing that worries me is the seal if it can be replaced quickly or any other material made in the USA that can be cut and butt welded with a hot wire.
I have done this with 3/8" round belts and trimmed the flashing after having a hot melted smash together. Again JMO's here.
 
I don't think I have anything going on tonight so I might be able to do the water test. I can't image the gasket being difficult to replace. McMaster has all sorts of silicone gaskets. This one is 1/4" square.
 
IIRC it held 16g filled right to the brim and 2 more gallons in the domed lid.
 
When racking from the conical to a corney, is it possible to never expose the beer to an uncontrolled environment?
I'm thinking
sanitize keg and purge with co2
pressurize conical
attach hose to valve on conical and attach other end to product side of keg
open pressure valve on keg and open valve on conical.

Am I missing something?
 
Not to beat the China vs US made debate even more but Blichmann doesn't use 100% US sourced parts either. I asked John when I imported three of his 20 gallon Boilermaker pots to Canada for duty/tax disclosures reasons and he told me that "the pots are about 60-70% US content."

Nice looking fermenter though guys. Very nice looking. Those welds are fantastic!
Keep us informed.

Kal
 
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