Never been so discouraged about homebrew (need some encouragement)

It seems to me you are just overthinking it. My suggestion would be to just do a SMaSH, Maybe something like Maris Otter and Centennial, use some store bought spring water and NO SALTS. If you get the same results, then IMO, you have an equipment problem and you'll want to start thinking about replacing stuff. Best of luck to you, I know how frustrating this kind of thing can be.

The RO water thing has been done, so I don't know what to add. Brew something very simple. Use RO water, unmodified. Get things down to the point where variables are minimized.

thing about the dfw area is that we got chloramine in our waters. that's one of the first things i did. didn't mess with salts and chemisty. got myself water from one of those glacier water things in front of stores. made a huge difference. i'd agree with the previous post that you're probably just overthinking things. take a break for a minute. brewing is supposed to be a fun thing. think about the fact that you said your beers aren't as good as you want them to be, you didn't say you are making bad beer. i'd say the hunger for serving your own high standards is a good thing. every brew is just another step closer to that goal. at least, that's how i've felt about the scant handfuls of batches i've brewed. somebody previously mentioned trying a smash, go for that. get some plain ol' bottled water a nice grain a nice simple hop, and let 'er rip @ 152. wait a while, do some life, come back in a few, have a beer, rinse repeat. it's a pretty neat brew of life.

Are you pitching enough yeast and oxygenate well? Try a small 1.040 OG, 1 gallon batch. With the same water. Stressed yeast throws off a ton of phenolic off-flavors.

So far I have only brewed extract recipes from Northern Brewer and Midwest Supplies.
I've never had to dump a batch.
But I've never brewed anything that I thought was excellent.
The Dry Irish Stout (NB) was good.
The Caribou Slobber (NB) was ok (a bit thin,, and not due to using too much water)
All 3 IPAs I have brewed have been disappointing to me. The Chinook IPA (NB) was ok.
But nothing I've brewed is as good as the good craft beer I can get at the store.

I am a bit discouraged. Both my last 2 batches were slightly under attenuated (1.016 instead of 1.012,, and 1.018 instead of 1.010 - I added another yeast packet top the later).

I will try all grain via BIAB (Brew in a Bag). I expect there is a learning curve there as well, but hopefully the beer will taste better.
If I follow the directions of a kit, and its just OK, then I may have done something wrong.
But maybe the kits I've brewed so far are just ok, but not great.
In any case I will continue brewing, but I am a little discouraged.

Next up: Whiskey Barrel Porter, Pale Ale, Vanilla Porter, Kolsch

How about pick a recipe you like and brew it several times to perfect it. If you keep trying different recipes you will never be able to hone in on what might be going on. I have brewed my Hef abut 7 times in the last 1.5 years and I really like it. The first one was drinkable at best, now it's really good.

Also, document everything from brewing to fermenting to bottling and tasting so you can analyze from batch to batch.

Toy4Rick

I thought about this last night. I think there are three levels of problems. 1. Contamination, 2. Process, 3. Ingredients. I would do a full system evaluation on all three levels. Simplify everything on every level to eliminate variables and find what is causing your problems.

1. Contamination- I would review everything that touches the wort or beer after the boil. Replace or deep clean everything. Use quality cleaners. No bleach or scented products. Concentrate on on Sanitatization during your next brew. I lost 3 batches due to a bad piece of tubing.

2. Process- Simplify and then add back one brew at a time. I would go to Extract with RO or distilled water. This will eliminate all mashing problems or water problems. The extract already has all the minerals and salts it needs. I would go with dry yeast (properly rehydrated) US-05. Ferment at 67F. Tape the temp prob to the fermentor with bubble wrap or towels on top of that. Give it 2 weeks then bottle instead of keg.

3. Ingredients- Get fresh ingredients from trusted sources. I would look for a simple recipe with with a lower OG so you don't have to worry about O2. Look for something that you can enjoy, but also pick out off flavors.

All the equipment and information can make things more difficult and certainly more complicated. A well made beer will taste good. Add back everything one at a time after you have made a clean beer you approve of.

Just my thoughts, I hope it helps.

I would enter your beer into a competition, not to win, just for the feedback. Maybe take one of the beers you did like and try to brew it a couple times to see if you can repeat the results.

Ever thought that maybe you are trying to juggle with too many balls?

I once heard one of the white labs people say that they won't teach someone how to brew all grain or mini mash until they have completed 20 batches of extract. I know you have all the fancy gear and want to use it to its fullest. But are trying to play beer chess against Kasparov?

Maybe try making a few extract kits from AHB, Morebeer, Williams, etc. Something simple like a pale ale. Follow the instructions and let go of that big brain. use some bottled water and don't even correct it. Just let the force flow through you...

Also, your standards might be a little high for your own product. When tasting 'professionally' made beer people tend to think that it is right. You know, because these people get paid to make beer. And people tend to think their stuff isn't as good because, well, people are insecure. Make something simple. Take it to a brew club. Let them tell you what you did right. That would be my advice.

In Bottle: Hoppy Wheat
In Keg: Brown Ale
In Fermentor: Session IPA
Up Next: Session IPA (with improvements)

If you are using a CDN thermometer, make sure that its not the type for 'thin cuts of meat.' That thermometer almost made me quit brewing too. It was accurate at 0F and 212F but around 155F it was 20-30F off!!! It all had to do with how deep I put it in the water. Turns out that on the package it says 'for thin cuts of meat' when it should say 'don't put this in more than 1/2".' As a result I was getting tannins and stale flavors in my beer thanks to mashing too hot.

Heat up a cup of water in the microwave and check it when you think its around mash temps. Check it against a simple analog thermometer.

I was in the same boat as you a year or so ago. Then someone said, "keep it simple stupid"KISS.
I did and it's been much better since. I've learned I gotta work my way up to the more complex grain bills and brewing procedures. Find 2-3 simple recipes you might like, then perfect them. As I'm writing this I just tasted an Oktoberfest that is out of this world. Had no idea I could brew something so good. Be patient, perfect your process, and rest assured you will reap the rewards in the future.

I'd get as many variables out of it and go back to extract with dry yeast... maybe even a no boil kit with US-05 subbed for the yeast that comes with it. You should be able to make a good beer even with a no boil prehopped kit, given proper sanitation and proper fermentation temps. When I'm running low on brew I've been known to brew a no boil kit while I'm doing an all grain batch. If you brew an undrinkable beer with a no boil kit, then you know that you have some sort of fermentation or sanitation issue. You'll never solve an issue by making your process more complicated.

Well I know exactly how you feel and advise you to hang in there. Take a deep breath and maybe step back a bit, but work it out. I began kegging back in about 1998 after several years bottling. I made some good, even award winning beers and the best two I made were never entered into contests. In both cases they were outstanding, and our homebrew club thought the chocolate mocha stout was among the best they had ever tasted. In both cases after a week or two in the kegs they became infected and had to be trashed. I made one more batch and it too went South and I quit. I was so discouraged that when I moved I left six cornies, a 20# co2 tank, double regulator, two chrome faucets and lines, etc behind. I didn't sell them, I left them for the re-modelers to dispose of. I know, how stupid, but I did it. After almost 10 years I started brewing again last year and I must admit I wish I had kept it up because it is a fun, interesting hobby and you meet cool folks. Do I wish I had all that kegging stuff back.....you bet I do. So work it out and keep up the fight, its worth it.

You most likely are making good beer but want to make something out of this world>
I can tell you this; If you are trying to get your beer to be EXACTLY like the craft brews then it will not happen. You can get it dam close but never exact.
I work for a company that sells flavors to a # of the craft beer company's and I'm not talking just fruit flavors. We sell them "beer enhancers" , (malt and hop flavoring, as well as fruit, spice, and even some enzymes to get a unique flavor).
Sorry to spoil everyone's image that at least some, (as i cant speak for all), of the highly rated brewers are just using pure grain and hops. Most are out to make big $$$ so they get all the help they can as its easier and more profitable to do a quick brew with flavor enhancers.

As I see it you can
1)Hang in there and try what others have suggested or
2)GIVE UP AND SELL ME ALL YOUR STUFF FOR CHEEP

GOOD LUCK
Practice makes a better brew

giraffeman said:

You most likely are making good beer but want to make something out of this world>
I can tell you this; If you are trying to get your beer to be EXACTLY like the craft brews then it will not happen. You can get it dam close but never exact.
:

Click to expand...

Don't know about you, but I'll put my beers up against any of the commercial craft beers any day of the week, and best case for them, it'll be a draw.

Okay, so a bit of an update. I've had my hefe in the keg for about a week now and it's actually turning out to be pretty good! Not as good as some of my favorite German hefeweizens, but it's still pretty good. I used pretty much the same process on this beer as my last few. Filtered water, lactic acid, a little calcium chloride. One thing about my last brew that didn't turn out very well is there was a lot of cold break and hop material in the fermentor. With my new blichmann, the dip tube reaches pretty far down and it's hard to keep a lot of that stuff out. I'm thinking that could be an issue.

Also, with my fermentation schedule, I keep it cool until the beer has about reached it's final gravity, and after that I go ahead and let it warm up to room temp. As far as I know, most of the ester production occurs the first few days or fermentation, so letting it warm up afterwards shouldn't be a big issue. Does anyone else do this?

jbsg02 said:

Sometimes the beers are bitter, but not in a good hop-bitter way. I have gotten a flavor and smell of grapefruit before, also not in a good way. I have also gotten a plastic flavor before too. None of the flavors seem to be the usual suspects associated with DMS, acetaldehyde, diacetly, or common infections. The current hefeweizen I have on tap isn't horrible, but it's lacking the mouthfeel and maltyness of other hefeweizens. Most of my brews tended to lack maltyness and mouthfeel, which led me to buy a new thermometer, because I suspected I was mashing much lower than I thought I was.

Click to expand...

Drink Bud for two weeks straight, then go back to drinking your beer. You'll feel a whole lot better. And follow the previous advice about simplifying your water. Just buy some bottled water, and use it without treatment. If the water tastes good, the beer should taste alright, no matter what the style is. You should probably taste the water you're using now after you get done treating it. It may well taste like crap.

danio said:

If you are using a CDN thermometer, make sure that its not the type for 'thin cuts of meat.' That thermometer almost made me quit brewing too. It was accurate at 0F and 212F but around 155F it was 20-30F off!!! It all had to do with how deep I put it in the water. Turns out that on the package it says 'for thin cuts of meat' when it should say 'don't put this in more than 1/2".' As a result I was getting tannins and stale flavors in my beer thanks to mashing too hot.

Heat up a cup of water in the microwave and check it when you think its around mash temps. Check it against a simple analog thermometer.

Click to expand...

Was this the thermometer?

http://www.amazon.com/CDN-DTQ450X-ProAccurate-Quick-Read-Thermometer/dp/B0021AEAG2

This is the one I have and I'd hate for this to not be accurate either!

"Also, with my fermentation schedule, I keep it cool until the beer has about reached it's final gravity, and after that I go ahead and let it warm up to room temp. As far as I know, most of the ester production occurs the first few days or fermentation, so letting it warm up afterwards shouldn't be a big issue. Does anyone else do this?"

I do this at times as well and it should not cause problems. You do however want to make sure you are controlling the beer beer temp and not jut the air around it.

jbsg02 said:

Was this the thermometer?

http://www.amazon.com/CDN-DTQ450X-ProAccurate-Quick-Read-Thermometer/dp/B0021AEAG2

This is the one I have and I'd hate for this to not be accurate either!

Click to expand...

Product Features

Pocket-sized quick-read thermometer that's great for measuring temp in thin cuts of meat, fish or poultry

I would check against an analog thermometer just to be safe.

jbsg02 said:

Was this the thermometer?

http://www.amazon.com/CDN-DTQ450X-ProAccurate-Quick-Read-Thermometer/dp/B0021AEAG2

This is the one I have and I'd hate for this to not be accurate either!

Click to expand...

That's the one I use. I've used it along side a dial thermometer and found that it is accurate throughout its range.

wow... that was a lotta reading.

I know how frustrating it can be. I almost quit brewing about a year and a half ago because I was getting an off-flavor on my new rig that I couldn't find (and I still get a ton of crap about it from my dear "friends"!!!) It is insanely frustrating though.

I dunno... my two cents is on the only thing I haven't seen anyone mention (maybe I missed it) is your kegs. Are you occasionally completely breaking down your kegs (removing dip-tubes, removed o-rings, etc) and giving them a good cleaning... and THEN a good SANITIZING? (cleaning and sanitizing aren't the same thing). It is really easy to get a bug in a keg and I think a basic infection will toss off all sorts of off-flavors.

I think your current hefe might be a good test case... if it tastes ok now... give it another couple weeks and see if it still tastes ok. If it does... it's probably not a keg issue. If it doesn't... then you may have found your culprit.

Good luck though... trust me, once you find it, it's going to be awesome to brew again.