Stone Brewing - Double Bastard Clone

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jezter6

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I've seen some recipes here and there for Arrogant Bastard. Does anyone have a recipe or link for Double Bastard? I'd like to brew this weekend if possible. Extract or PM would be best, as I haven't started AG yet and don't want to screw up something this big on first try.

Thanks.
 
Been drinking this for 1 month with bottles being 2 months old. Still getting better.
Double Arrogant Bastard
12# light LME
.5# Wheat malt
2# Munich malt
.5# Special B
.5# Belgian Biscuit
.5# Aromatic malt
2-4# of 2-row( depending on how much grain you can mash)
1# Corn sugar
HOPS:
1.5 oz's Magnum 60 Min
1.5 oz's Columbus 20 min
1.5 oz's Centennial 0-5 min
1-2 oz's Dry Hop Centennial
Irish Moss
WLP 001 Cali Ale or Wyeast 1056. KILLER RECIPE. Give it time to ferment out. and use an airlock and blowoff tube with this. roughly 9-10 %Alc. Good luck and have fun. My OG was 1.096
 
Cool! Thanks for the tips. I've heard that the Double B doesn't have any Special B in it. Any ideas for a replacement?

Also, is this a 5g or 10g batch?
Is everything else but the LME mashed or are there steeping grains involved (again -- i'm a noob)?

THe WLP Cali ale did my big Imperial Pale (1.070 OG) real well, kept bubbling in the secondary after 3 weeks it's still @ 1 ever 10s.

Thanks again!!
 
You could probably get away with a little crystal 120 or 150 but then again that's adding some more sweetness. This is for 5 gal. Mash all the grain at 153. After you get a good boil add the LME(No burner) Stir well and pour slowly. The Special B adds alot, I wouldn't leave it out but that's up to you. I study STONE's Beers and live for the real thing. Cheers.
 
Holy crap that is one expensive grain bill. I can't wait to go all grain just because the price of LME is so darn expensive. $13.50 for a 3.3 lb can is crazy.

I may have to hold off just so that I can all grain and afford such a recipe. It looks awesome though. Maybe I'll try cutting down to 2 cans and just being half as arrogant. :)
 
Jezter6 this is a PM recipe, the 12 # is Liquid Extract. Yes it is expensive but you could probably get away with 9 or 10 # of DME. Don't know the exact conversion?
 
Has anyone attempted a Double Bastard clone (or have any ideas as to what the double bastard contains?) A friend and I really like the DB, and want to work something up that comes somewhere close (primarily so we have a steady supply).

EDIT: After embarking on some thorough research, I've determined there are two philosophies for brewing the DB. I've mocked up 2 recipes based on these approaches, which can be found a few posts down. Which one seems better?
 
After some serious digging, I've managed to find about 2-3 recipes online that claim to be an approximation of the Double Bastard -- but only one had a brewer that really sounded like he knew what he was talking about. The following is his recipe. I might need to adjust for batch size and efficiency, but whacha think?

EDIT: I posted two recipes a few posts down that jive with my system. In my searches, I've determined there are two philosophies for approaching the Double Bastard. The two separate recipes reflect these two philosophies.
 
In my searches, I've determined there are two philosophies for approaching the Double Bastard. The two separate recipes below reflect these two philosophies (while taking into consideration the ingredients/equipment I have on hand). Which one seems the better clone?

Yeast is WLP007 for both.

DB Clone #1
Partial Mash
(Approx) 6 gallon boil, 5.25 batch size
OG: 1.097
FG: 1.021
IBU: 100+
SRM: 15
Efficiency: 70% (low-ball, will adjust as needed on brew day)

8lb Maris Otter
1lb CaraPils
1lb CaraMunich
1lb CaraVienne

5lb Light DME

1 oz Nugget (12%, 90 min)
1 oz Nugget (12%, 60 min)
1 oz Nugget (12%, 20 min)

1 oz Nugget (dry hop)

~OR~

DB Clone #2
Partial Mash
(Approx.) 6 gallon boil, 5.25 batch size
OG: 1.097
FG: 1.021
IBU: 100+
SRM: 20
Efficiency: 70% (low-ball, will adjust as needed on brew day)

7lb Maris Otter
2lb Munich
.5lb Aromatic
.5lb Biscuit
.5lb Special B
.5lb Carmel Wheat

5 lb Light DME

2 oz Nugget (12%, 60 min)
1 oz Nugget (12%, 20 min)
.5 oz Nugget (12%, 10 min)
.5 oz Nugget (12 %, 5 min)

2 oz Nugget (Dry hop)
 
Hmm. AB is 2-row, 1.5lb of C120, and Chinook hops.. about 5 ounces of them, all in the kettle. Very simple recipe!

I would expect DB would be similar to AB but with a bigger grain and hop bill to ramp it to 1.096 and 100IBU + dry hopping; although, BIG disclaimer is I have one bomber of DB, and I haven't tried it yet, so I can't say with any certainty!

Reading through some taste notes online it sounds like 2-row + C120L will do it for the grainbill. The description of the hops makes it sound like there may be centennial and/or cascades plus simcoe in addition to chinook. I doubt there are more than 2 hops though, based on their other recipes, and chinook is almost certainly one of them since so much of the AB character comes from that hop.

Anybody tried it have any idea on the hops??

OK OK I'm sticking my bomber in the fridge and subscribing to this thread. :) :drunk:
 
Dug up this old thread:

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f12/stone-brewing-double-bastard-clone-17348/

The thing about Stone recipes is they are all dead simple. They generally use 1 or 2 different hops and 1 or 2 specialty malts in their brews. All the clone recipes I dug up seem to be overly complicated. Special B and munich and aromatic.. This isn't a dubbel! C120 has all of those flavor notes though, when you use a lot.
 
I've done an Arrogant Bastard Clone and a Double Bastard clone, both from AHS. Not sure how the double will turn out as I just bottled it, but the regular turned out excellent. Looking at the recipes above, I disagree with the hops. Mine used all Chinook and was dead on.
 
When stone was on the session they said double bastard uses the same ingredients as arrogant bastard.
 
With the above two recipes, I switched out the cascade/nugget combo for 100% nugget (as nugget is a fair approximation/substitute for Chinook, and I have some on hand).

So on one hand, number 2 has a more complicated grain bill, but number 1 has a longer boil. Maybe I should just use two pounds of 120C and call it a day?
 
Maybe I should just use two pounds of 120C and call it a day?

I'd be very careful about adding that much 120C- the raisin and dark fruits will be too much to bear, I'm afraid. Referring to my brewing notes, I've not ever used more than a pound of crystal malt in a 5 gallon batch. Adjust the gravity with base malt.
 
I'd go with 1.5# of C120L, and enough 2-row to get to 1.096. Then use enough hops to get to 100 IBU, toss in a handful at 15, and a handful at 5, and dry hop it until the fermenter looks like hop soup.

My best guess is that Stone actually uses Crystal 150L at 10-15% of the grist, but it's hard to find; C120L is close enough for me.

I've tried the AB clone with 1.5# of C120L from another homebrewer, and it's absolutely 100% dead on with the original.
 
Any theories on the 90 minute boil? With my setup, I prefer a 60 minute, but I've heard in some circles that 90 minute is used for more carmalization, or some such...
 
Stone boils everything (almost everything) for 90 minutes.

I boil the snot out of my wort so 60 minutes is usually sufficient. For a really intensely hoppy beer 90 minutes it the way to go though.
 
My 2row & crystal regular AB comes out exactly like AB.

So whats the verdict? Double AB 1.5 lbs of crystal & enough 2 row to get way up there, then all chinooks to go over 100IBU or what? I have a really complicated recipe (10 malts & 5 diff hops)

Brewers want to know!
 
I was talking with Saccharomyces via PM and I've settled upon 1.5 lbs 120L, 8 oz CaraPils and enough Maris Otter & DME to get me up to 1.097.

2 oz Nugget (12%) @ 60, 1 oz Nugget @ 20, 1/2 oz Cascade (6%) @ 10, 1/2 oz Cascade at 5. Dry hop with 1 oz Cascade and 1 oz Nugget.

Yeast = WLP007

Stone recipes are really quite simple when it comes down to it...most of the DB clones floating around with special B, aromatic, etc etc, are probably off the mark. Either that, or they're taking a round about, overly complex way of arriving at the flavor profile.

Of course, I'm just repeating what I've read/extrapolated/been told. I'm going with the above grain bill as soon as I can fit it in the rotation. I'll report back with results ASAP, but that probably won't be for a few months.
 
Pelikan,

Your recipie sounds even simpler, but I think I'll go with 1.5 lbs 120L & enough 2 row to get to my OG, but I really, really like the chinooks in the regular AB (my clone is dead on)

I'll probably brew this Jan 19th or so. I'll post back when its done (sometime in April or May)
 
Pelikan,

Your recipie sounds even simpler, but I think I'll go with 1.5 lbs 120L & enough 2 row to get to my OG, but I really, really like the chinooks in the regular AB (my clone is dead on)

I'll probably brew this Jan 19th or so. I'll post back when its done (sometime in April or May)

Nice. I worked out my hop schedule with david_42, using what I have on hand. Chinooks are good stuff though...similar to nugget (one of my faves). I threw in the cascade to get the citrus/grapefruit undertone, as by my understanding the double B uses a Centennial/Chinook combo. So the ideal hop schedule might look something like what I have above, but with Chinook subbed in for Nugget, and Centennial subbed in for Cascade. Although it's very possible the DB is all Chinook.
 
I am drinking a DB right now, and am curious about the hops I taste. Very floral, and pleasantly bitter. There is a nice sweet malt backbone to this brew, a little toasty character. I have never used Nugget hops in any of my brews. Is that really what they use in DB? I thought AG was all chinook? I like this better.
 
So, Whats the final word? What recipe MOST resembles the Double Bastard?
 
Has anyone brewed any of these Double Bastard recipes that can comment on how they turned out?
 
bump...

Anyone do this? I have a bunch of chinook to use up, thinking of using Maris Otter and 1.5 lb C120 to get 10 1.096, then FWH, 90, 15, 5, FO and DH with an oz or so each. I will play with the hop additions and amounts to make sure I am around 100 IBU.
 
I brewed one with 2 row & C-120L & all chinook hops.

It tastes EXACLTY like Double AB, but the color is no where near as deep.

I think I used 1.5 lbs of C-120L, its not enough.

I can check the recipe sheet I used if anybody wants specifics.
Cali ale was the yeast.
 
Thanks for the update man.

I used 4 oz of chocolate in a double IPA I did a while back. Its great, but almost gone. Maybe I will toss in a few oz to add a little color and complexity.

Update: Here is what I came up with... Hows it look?

Bastard Bastard

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 8.31 gal
Boil Time: 90 min
Equipment: Brew Pot (12.5 gal) and Igloo Cooler (10 Gal)
Brewhouse Efficiency: 78.00


Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
16 lbs 8.0 oz Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 91.01 %
1 lbs 8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 8.27 %
2.1 oz Chocolate Malt (350.0 SRM) Grain 0.72 %
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (90 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 40.2 IBU
2.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (Dry Hop 10 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (60 min) Hops 34.1 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (15 min) Hops 16.9 IBU
1.00 oz Chinook [13.00 %] (5 min) Hops 6.8 IBU
1 Pkgs SafAle (DCL Yeast #US-05) Yeast-Ale



Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.096 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 10.63 %
Bitterness: 98.0 IBU
Calories: 444 cal/pint
Est Color: 21.8 SRM


Mash Profile

Mash Name: Double Batch Sparge - No Mash out Total Grain Weight: 18.13 lb
Sparge Water: 0.00 gal Grain Temperature: 70.0 F
Sparge Temperature: 168.0 F TunTemperature: 70.0 F
Adjust Temp for Equipment: FALSE Mash PH: 5.4 PH

Double Batch Sparge - No Mash out Step Time Name Description Step Temp
90 min Dough In Add 22.66 qt of water at 160.5 F 149.0 F
10 min Sparge 1 Add 12.95 qt of water at 191.1 F 163.0 F
10 min Sparge2 Add 12.95 qt of water at 183.0 F 168.0 F
 
I never did pull my brew sheet.

But.... I think 2 oz of Choc Malt might not be enough.
I put 2 oz in Haus Pale ale, and called it Haus Hoppy Amber, and its a fine beer, dont get me wrong, but the choc malt added a bitterness all its own. And its not all that dark.

Next time, I'll up the C-120L to 2 pounds & see what happens.

Ill post back. Maybe in 6 months.
 
Plan is to brew this one up tomorrow, slightly modified grainbill. 14lb maris otter, 4lb munich, 1.5 lb C-120. I have 7oz of chinook to use, I think I will use some FWH, 2x60, 15, 5, & 2xDH. US-05. I am planning on running off enough for 4.5 - 5 gallon batch, and then (hopefully) running off enough for another smaller beer. Something amber-ale ish. Never tried that before, but with a grainbill like that seems silly to toss out the grain with all that residual sugar.
 
holy cow, I don't think I've ever paid that much for 5 gallons of beer. I can even take a corny down to my favorite brew pub and beat that price.

Going AG knocks off $17, which gets you down to ~$45. I'd probably pitch on a fresh yeast cake since it's such a heavy brew, so it'd be $45 flat for me....more expensive than most things, but it is a hop and grain heavy beer...

I haven't priced out how much it would cost to put one of the recipes posted here together, but it's probably pretty comparable.

Edit: Call the total price $50 for 50 bottles of DB, or <$2 per bomber. Let me know where you can get prices like that on Stone brew :)
 
Going AG knocks off $17, which gets you down to ~$45. I'd probably pitch on a fresh yeast cake since it's such a heavy brew, so it'd be $45 flat for me....more expensive than most things, but it is a hop and grain heavy beer...

I haven't priced out how much it would cost to put one of the recipes posted here together, but it's probably pretty comparable.

Edit: Call the total price $50 for 50 bottles of DB, or <$2 per bomber. Let me know where you can get prices like that on Stone brew :)

I think I could brew it for $25, plus or minus two or three bucks.

2-Row = $1 per pound
Other grain = $1.50 per pound
Chinook = approx $0.81 per ounce shipped (hops direct)
SO-5 = $2.95 per packet

Add another $2.95 if I use a second package of dry yeast.

Just guessing here, but $65 is a high price to pay and so is $45 IMHO.
 
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