Killer bee Belgian Wit

Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum

Help Support Homebrew Talk - Beer, Wine, Mead, & Cider Brewing Discussion Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

z987k

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 13, 2007
Messages
3,513
Reaction score
37
Location
Anchorage
Recipe Type
All Grain
Yeast
WLP400
Yeast Starter
yes
Additional Yeast or Yeast Starter
no
Batch Size (Gallons)
5
Original Gravity
1.051
Final Gravity
1.007
Boiling Time (Minutes)
60
IBU
17
Color
3
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
~7
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp)
~14
Additional Fermentation
week in the keg
Tasting Notes
Light, fruity, very sublte sour
Let me start out by saying, I just tapped this tonight, and wow it's amazingly refreshing, light and easy drinking. If you dialed down the alcohol a tad, you could probably drink it all day and not have to worry about the buzz.

Between the wlp400 and the acid malt it has a very very subtle touch of sour. IME, this beer is how a wit should taste. If you're looking for a blue moon clone, this is not it. Instead more like an Alagash white, but still different.

This was my first decoction brew. It's a take on Jamil's wit from the radio show on wits.

OG: 1.051
FG: 1.007
SRM: 3*
IBU: 17
ABV: 5.7%
4lbs 6-row
4lbs White Wheat
1lb flaked Oats
.5lb Cane sugar
2oz Acid Malt
1oz Vangaurd @ 4.4% 45min
.5oz bitter orange peal 2mins
.5oz Crushed corriander 2mins
1tbsp flour @ flamout
Yeast: Wlp 400

So I'll start with the mash technique. All of the wheat, oats in it's own mash for a protein rest at 122F. 1.7qts/lb of grain for this mash. The rest of the grain (the 6-row and 2oz of acid malt) in your mash tun at 122 as well. 1.25qts/lb for this mash.
Now I rested the decoction mash (wheat, oats) for 15mins and then turned the burner on and brought it up to 148 and rested there for 30mins. Then lit the burner and brought it up to a boil for 15mins. After the boil, I scooped portions of the decoction mash that was boiling into the mash tun to bring the main mash up to 155. Rested that for 45mins and then added the rest of the decoction which brought it to ~170 for mash out. Then lauter and sparge like you normally do. I used 1.33qts/lb for the sparge.

I used 6-row and did a protein rest because of all the wheat and oats, over 50% of the grain bill. I crushed the wheat so fine, it was almost flour, and never got a stuck sprage, which I'm contributing to the 6row and protein rest.

The flour was added at flameout to ensure that I get a nice haze in this beer, because most of my wits end up going clear after a month in the keg... this has a definite starch haze.

BTW, I named this killer bee wit because, while I was brewing, I was repeatedly attacked by carpenter bees who has decided to take up residence on our deck. If you've ever seen a carpenter bee, the things are huge.
 
Good recipe. Best Wit recipe I've seen so far. I like that you emphasize that this is NOT a blue moon clone.

I'm still looking for a recipe that involves turbid mashing techniques, most famously used in Lambics. Unless I'm mistaken, isn't turbid mashing also traditionally used for Wits?

I had the idea of (still using the suggested yeast) doing an open fermentation to achieve some sourness from wild yeasts/bacteria (instead of the acid malt).

I also wonder if a little bit of ginger and a little bit of apricot or peach would add a nice touch? Some of the other wit recipes I'm looking at are also calling for cumin, grains of paradise or black pepper, and chamomile.

Obviously this is a beer that you drink young. My hope is to brew a wit sometime in mid-late May, have it bottled by early June, and drunk entirely by the end of August.

(I might add that I usually like to brew big and fancy beers that require alot of aging. I don't drink them fast, and I will still probably end up saving a bottle or two of the wit to age out to 6+ months and see what happens. That will be especially interesting with the influence of wild yeasts/bacteria.)
 
a short sour mash might be more controllable than wild yeast. Also, I'd probably go with unmalted wheat next time instead of white.
 
a short sour mash might be more controllable than wild yeast. Also, I'd probably go with unmalted wheat next time instead of white.

I usually brew in about 8 gallon batches, so I would probably experiment with the wild yeast in a 3 gallon batch and do the rest as a closed fermentation.

If the wild stuff is getting too out of hand, I can always add some campden tablets once primary fermentation has finished, to bring them in check.

Do you know anything about turbid mashing in Wit beers?
 
ok... here's a good byo article on it: http://***********/stories/techniques/article/indices/45-mashing/1743-turbid-mashing

And I was thinking of doing a how-to video on turbid mashing like kai's decoction video. I've done it once before with a wit - not this recipe and with a lambic that's sitting around still right now.

But turbid mashing causes a highly dextrinous wort, that is cloudy and will attenuate poorly. So basically everything most people don't want in their beer.

Here's what I went with for the turbid mash wit:
3.25lbs Pilsner
3lbs Unmalted Wheat
1lb Oats
.5lb Cane sugar
4oz Acid Malt
1lb Rice Hulls (this is a thick mash with lots of wheat)
1oz Alsace @ 4.0 % 60min
1oz fresh zest orange peal 2mins
.5oz Crushed corriander 2mins
Yeast: Wlp 400

Rests at 115, 135, 150 and 162. .3qt/lb for the initial dough in, adding boiling water to step to the second rest. Pull one quart of liquid from the tun and heat to at least 180. (the faster you heat the faster the enzymes will be denatured and you will get an even more dextrinous wort.) Add boiling water to the tun to bring it up to 150 for the sach rest. Now pull a gallon of liquid and add that to the other you pulled and make sure it's all above 180. Add boiling water to step to 162, rest. Drain about 1.25gallons and then add the 180F liquid you pulled earlier back to the mlt.(this will raise the mash temp and BYO recommends resting there for 20mins, this should denature any remaining alpha. But you could just keep going and get a slightly more fermentable wort.) Keep draining and sparge normally.

Oh and don't forget to treat your water ;)
 
I did this one today , with some adjustments. I added some sweet orange peel at 10 minutes and 1/4 oz black pepper at 3 minutes. I ended up doing a hybrid double infusion/ decoction mash to hit temps. I accidentally bought wyeast 3942 belgian wheat... they mark the package "Belgian WT"... I gotta remember to double check... so I made a separate starters with a hoegaarden and sterkens (sterkens might be pasteurized?) dregs and pitched that with the 3942. I used wheat berries, crushed to the verge of flour with a coffee mill cause I didn't like the crush I got at LHBS. Overshot my usual 60-61% efficiency with wheats by 10 points (need to get my own mill i think). OG was 1.061. I'm calling mine Swallowtail Wit due to the first swallowtail butterfly I have seen this year visiting me as I started the chiller. I omitted the flour at the end. I didn't think it was necessary, came out a beautiful pale yellow/white in the carboy. I think this is gonna be a good one! :mug:
 
This is the recipe I am looking for. Only problem is that I do not do Step Mashes or Decoction Mashes. ny help in making this a simple one step mash schedule?
 
a short sour mash might be more controllable than wild yeast. Also, I'd probably go with unmalted wheat next time instead of white.

I have the ingredients (including White Wheat). Would you do the unmalted from now on, or were you telling him to change the recipe, just to acheive sourness without the acid wheat?
 
I have the ingredients (including White Wheat). Would you do the unmalted from now on, or were you telling him to change the recipe, just to achieve sourness without the acid wheat?

He was commenting on another beer that he wants to do a wild fermentation with. I was suggesting he do a sour mash rather than the wild yeast in the air. Nothing to do with this recipe really.

I would defiantly do unmalted wheat on any wit. The small amount of acid malt was just for a tinge, nothing that should be there without looking for it. With the unmalted wheat I don't even bother with it anymore.
Pils and unmalted wheat are the two things that should be in any true to style Belgian wit.

Also after tasting flaked wheat, torrified wheat and unmalted wheat all side by side(the gains) I would not sub any for the other, despite that they are all unmalted, they do taste fairly different. And then the red vs white tastes different to.
 
Hey Zach,
I almost did the Killer Bee. It was close, but I was in need of a nap, and threw it together like always. Some time I need to do one right to see what I am missing by shortcutting all the time.

Substituted Amber Malt Extract for the Cane Sugar
Ommited the flour.
Ground the flaked oats (threw the acid malt on top, accidentaly, so I ground both together.
I changed the mash schedule (as I needed to get to bed at some point) 155 / 60 min<> 170 sparge.
:eek:

That last 2 minutes was special...Really just a hint of coriander, and orange peel, Can't wait for this one.

Question: Lots of trub. Do I need to get the beer off the trub and into a secondary real fast? I am thinking right after krausan subsides.
 
I believe that I underpitched, trying to save a buck I used one vial and did a quick starter for 10 gallons. Smells great just got them into the secondaries, bubble every fifteen seconds. Taste great...my question is: Is it a sour beer? As long as it is supposed to have the sour note, I am doing fine. Dang good recipe!:mug:
 
depends on your definition of sour. But there should be just a slight bit.
 
Yes sir,
I was hoping you would say that. Tastes great, with the long lag time I was worried. Today I read an old thread. I have learned that since I am All Grain now, a aireation (Burnomatic o2) and a stir plate would help me in kicking off fermentation.

Thanks for getting back to me...
 
I will NEVER, EVER, under pitch again! I did another New Castle Brown Ale, since this recipe, and I threw a vial in each 5 gallon primary.
the New Castle is going to beat Killer Bee to fermentation. Because I didn't do a good starter, to double the size of the vial of White Labs, the Killer Bee is still in secondary plugging away, slowly. I want to carb the Killer Bee, and get some down my throat. I know the New Castle will be good, but I still have a half gallon or so of the New Castle on tap.


1-23-10
Update: Awesome dude! About thirty hours at 30psi, and a day at 10psi....Still green, but tasty! I am getting buzzed quite nicely on this, very drinkable even though it is green. No prob I got another five I am going to natural carb. Needs about a week and I will probably be posting another thankyou!!
 
Carbed and in the keg now, this is a great recipe. It's got a nice honey/bready/belgian flavor.

Only thing I might change is to add just a touch more acidulated malt, gravity came out high and ended up around 7% alcohol but you can't even tell. I could still drink beer after beer of this.
 
Entered in a BJCP competition and scored a 29, most said that this beer needs more wheat flavor.
 
I like the recipe and the responses to this recipe, but I'm using a converted cooler for a mash tun and I don't think I am able to do this mash. Anyone have ideas for making it a single step mash?
 
I like the recipe and the responses to this recipe, but I'm using a converted cooler for a mash tun and I don't think I am able to do this mash. Anyone have ideas for making it a single step mash?


I'm in the same boat....anyone out there care to break the recipe down for a non Herms/RIMS mash system?

Should I just mash all the grain and wheat at 122 for a 15 min rest, then bump it to 155 for a 45 min. rest, then go on to do a batch sparge to get it to 170?
 
I'm in the same boat....anyone out there care to break the recipe down for a non Herms/RIMS mash system?

Should I just mash all the grain and wheat at 122 for a 15 min rest, then bump it to 155 for a 45 min. rest, then go on to do a batch sparge to get it to 170?

Ended up making this 2 months ago and I have to say it came out amazing. Very drinkable and the balance of corriander and bitter orange is spot on.

I did a mash at 122 for 15 min. Then Infused more water to get it up to 155, let it rest for 45 min. Did a single decoction a let it rest for another 15. Empty the wort into the kettle and then did a single batch sparge.


Just made a new batch last night, only thing I changed was to add 1/2 oz of pink peppercorn with the rest of the orange and corriander at the end of the boil. I'll let you know how it comes out in a few weeks. :mug:
 
Just brewed this up yesterday, but the turbid mash version. Surprisingly, it went decently well. It was odd with such a close grain to water ratio.

I tend to get decent efficiency, and I did on this one as well, which I am partially worried about because I know it should yield a much lower gravity and dextrinous wort than a typical mash schedule. My pre-boil at 5.25 gallons was 1.040 at around 80 degrees. Not sure what the turbid OG gravity typically would be on something like this.
 
Just cracked open this beer tonight after 2 weeks in the bottle. It was the turbid mash version, with 16 oz of pomegranate concentrate added to secondary.

It came out GREAT! Great frothy head, creamy, slightly citrusy, slightly tart (I think a bit from the pomegranate and the acid malt), has a wheat flavor that isn't overpowering, great belgian yeast touch. An awesome wit!

I didn't get any obvious pomegranate flavor or tartness, but there is a tartness there. There also is only a slight coloration from the pomegranate, but I don't even think you would know there was pomegranate added if I never told anyone.
 
I just left St. Arnold's brewery in Houston and my favorite beer I tried was called White Noise which is based on a beer called Celis White. I tried to find the recipe for that and ended up here with people saying it was similar. I gotta try it now!
 
Back
Top