Harvesting Rogue Pacman from bottle - what I learned

I tried twice in the past to harvest the rogue pacman strain of yeast. Both times I used the brutal bitter 22 oz bottle and used proper starter making and yeast pitching protocol. No success.

Last night I bought a bottle of Shakespeare Stout, the beer tasted just like my oatmeal stout, which made me kind of proud. So I decided to give the yeasties one more try. I made my starter, cooled it down and pitched. I woke up this morning and pacman is gobbling up maltose in my starter! I am going to brew up something in the 1.045 to 1.050 range tomorow with it so I can harvest a nice crop of washed yeast.

So, if you want pacman it appears as if the shakespear is the way to go.

I have had GREAT success in the past week with harvesting yeast....first Chimay and now Pacman! Two really nice strains to have in house if I may say so myself


Now, for a good dunkel recipe for me to use pacman on.......

Good on you!

With the 22's the tip to discerning whether or not there is enough yeast left to harvest is right on the label. The ones that actually says "Rogue Pacman Yeast" on thepainted label tend to work the best. Dead guy doesn't say it on the label, and I believe that's a clue that they filter it more than, shakespear stout, brutal bitter. hazelnut stout and the others that people have been successful with.

I've been able to harvest Pacman from Brutal Bitter and the Chocolate Stout and those worked the first time its usually what I stick with.

I start with two 22oz bottles and leave about an inch of beer left in the bottoms. I add starter wort to the bottles twice before pitching the yeast into a flask. The first wort is 1 ounce DME and 8oz water. Once that ferments out I cold crash and decant and step it up to 2 ounces DME and 16 ounces water. After that ferments I have a decent amount of yeast in the bottoms of each bottle and I cold crash both bottles, decant and pitch the yeast into a 4oz DME, 32oz water starter (about 1L) and toss it on the stirplate for a few days.

This is definitely cool and something I would like to do in the future when I am not such a n00b.
However, until march http://www.wyeastlab.com/vssprogram.cfm?website=2

+1 on the chocolate stout. i made a starter from a bottle 2 weeks ago and have already have it in an ipa i made a few days ago. can wait to try it. patience was required when making that starter. i thought it was going to work but 2 days later it was alive.

I am going to step it to a larger starter tonight, and pitch the actively fermenting starter into a low/medium gravity ale tomorow night. I am a huge fan of nottingham yeast, so I think I am really going to like having the pacman yeast as well. I love maibocks and if I wasn't told dead guy was an ale, I would swear it was a lager...so I am condfident this yeast will work great on psuedo lagers...I bet it would make a nice, dry kolsch beer too.

permo said:

I am going to step it to a larger starter tonight, and pitch the actively fermenting starter into a low/medium gravity ale tomorow night. I am a huge fan of nottingham yeast, so I think I am really going to like having the pacman yeast as well. I love maibocks and if I wasn't told dead guy was an ale, I would swear it was a lager...so I am condfident this yeast will work great on psuedo lagers...I bet it would make a nice, dry kolsch beer too.

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I beleive Kolsch style beer picks up a lot of its flavor from the kolsch style yeast

ok so i was gonna try to harvest some yeast from the bottom of 1 or 2 bottles of brutal bitter but is does not say pacman on the label. Does that mean its not the same? would i be better off buying 2 or 3 packs of it?

im going to save myself the trouble and buy a smacker before the end of march...

mordantly said:

im going to save myself the trouble and buy a smacker before the end of march...

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What trouble? $6 gets you a nice 22 oz bomber of delicious beer with free yeast. It's like getting the beer for free!

No, it is a little trouble to cultivate...but well worth it. Part of me thinks you get a more authentic strain if you harvest from their bottles then from Wyeast. I have no proof or evidence...it is just a hunch.

permo said:

What trouble? $6 gets you a nice 22 oz bomber of delicious beer with free yeast. It's like getting the beer for free!

No, it is a little trouble to cultivate...but well worth it. Part of me thinks you get a more authentic strain if you harvest from their bottles then from Wyeast. I have no proof or evidence...it is just a hunch.

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I'm pretty sure that Wyeast is maintaining Rogue's yeast bank. IE, Rogue buys pacman from Wyeast.

permo said:

What trouble? $6 gets you a nice 22 oz bomber of delicious beer with free yeast. It's like getting the beer for free!

No, it is a little trouble to cultivate...but well worth it. Part of me thinks you get a more authentic strain if you harvest from their bottles then from Wyeast. I have no proof or evidence...it is just a hunch.

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Wyeast maintains the Pacman culture. So if you get it from them you are getting what Rogue gets when the decide to go back to the original culture. If you get it form Rogue bottles, you are getting yeast that is N generations away from the original culture.

remilard said:

Wyeast maintains the Pacman culture. So if you get it from them you are getting what Rogue gets when the decide to go back to the original culture. If you get it form Rogue bottles, you are getting yeast that is N generations away from the original culture.

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So there is certainly a difference between yeast from wyeast and what is harvested from a bottle of rogue beer.

remilard said:

If you get it form Rogue bottles, you are getting yeast that is N generations away from the original culture.

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Question: If i was planning on using the yeast i harvested from a bottle in a pale ale that I was going to use the cake from to pitch a barley wine on, then I should make the PA higher ABV than the brutal bitter? Or would this just be a bad idea and I should buy some smackpacks?

FreeM80s said:

Question: If i was planning on using the yeast i harvested from a bottle in a pale ale that I was going to use the cake from to pitch a barley wine on, then I should make the PA higher ABV than the brutal bitter? Or would this just be a bad idea and I should buy some smackpacks?

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Make the pale ale somewhere lower than the brutal bitter, maybe 1.050-1.055. This way your yeast won't be stressed out from high alcholol exposure and converting tons of maltose into CO2 and alcohol. This way you will have a very healthy cake for the BW.

permo said:

So there is certainly a difference between yeast from wyeast and what is harvested from a bottle of rogue beer.

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No.


Rogue throws the yeast out when they can detect a difference. If you harvest from the bottle, you're less likely to get a yeast that behaves like Rogue wants Pacman to.

Synovia said:

No.


Rogue throws the yeast out when they can detect a difference. If you harvest from the bottle, you're less likely to get a yeast that behaves like Rogue wants Pacman to.

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Ohh good. I am glad there isn't a difference.

I'd think there's a potential difference in that the yeast you get out of the bottle is more likely to mutate on you sooner.

Not sure if that's a significant difference, though.

mojotele said:

I'd think there's a potential difference in that the yeast you get out of the bottle is more likely to mutate on you sooner.

Not sure if that's a significant difference, though.

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Is mutation a good thing or a bad thing? Let's say I take this pacman yeast and ferment my first batch at 60 degrees, which I am doing...and the next at 58, the next at 57..etc..etc..until I hit fifty degrees. Do you think that the yeast will mutate and adapt to the cooler conditions?

This certainly is not my plan, the folks at rogue ferment at 60 degrees so that is my plan for this yeast.

permo said:

Is mutation a good thing or a bad thing? Let's say I take this pacman yeast and ferment my first batch at 60 degrees, which I am doing...and the next at 58, the next at 57..etc..etc..until I hit fifty degrees. Do you think that the yeast will mutate and adapt to the cooler conditions?

This certainly is not my plan, the folks at rogue ferment at 60 degrees so that is my plan for this yeast.

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Depends on the mutation and what you wanted out of the yeast.

If a mutation happens that affects flavor, and you were really expecting the flavors given by the original strain, then it is probably a bad thing regardless of if the flavors attributed by the new strain are good or not. Others not expecting anything in particular may find it to be a happy surprise.

A mutation that causes less flocculation could be bad times for someone who wanted a super clear beer. But for someone expecting a cloudy beer it could be just what they wanted.

Probably the only truly bad thing is you never know what the heck is going to happen.

i always try to get the pure strain, if it is available. but that is my preference... a pure slant is assured for ever.

Took a look at a bottle of Brutal Bitter in the store the other day.... saw the yeast dancing and swirling in the bottom... a beautiful sight!

Gotta go get me some DME and propogate!

DrinksWellWithOthers said:

I've been able to harvest Pacman from Brutal Bitter and the Chocolate Stout and those worked the first time its usually what I stick with.

I start with two 22oz bottles and leave about an inch of beer left in the bottoms. I add starter wort to the bottles twice before pitching the yeast into a flask. The first wort is 1 ounce DME and 8oz water. Once that ferments out I cold crash and decant and step it up to 2 ounces DME and 16 ounces water. After that ferments I have a decent amount of yeast in the bottoms of each bottle and I cold crash both bottles, decant and pitch the yeast into a 4oz DME, 32oz water starter (about 1L) and toss it on the stirplate for a few days.

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Perfect. This has me grabbing a bomber after work. Thanks!

I hate to even ask this question... but do we know if Rogue uses a different strain of yeast for bottling? I've heard of some Belgian breweries doing that.

JamesM said:

I hate to even ask this question... but do we know if Rogue uses a different strain of yeast for bottling? I've heard of some Belgian breweries doing that.

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The belgian breweries sometimes centrifuge there beer after fermentation and reprime it with sugar and fresh yeast at bottling for part of the special refermentation in the bottle.

Rogue does not do this, some of their beers are simply unfiltered so the primary strain is still in the bottle.

I gave this a shot earlier tonight. Hope it works out.

JamesM said:

I hate to even ask this question... but do we know if Rogue uses a different strain of yeast for bottling? I've heard of some Belgian breweries doing that.

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Yes we know and no they don't.

I have some propagating now from a bottle of northwestern ale. Good stuff btw. This morning I am finally seeing some activity. I picked it up to give a swirl like I normally do and had the thing basically explode with foam from my erlenmeyer flask. Guess you don't swirl during high krausen.

Yep, I can see some activity in mine. I used 15 oz of water and 1/3 cup of DME. Do I need to step this up in order to pitch into a 1.055 gravity wort?

mixmasterob said:

Yep, I can see some activity in mine. I used 15 oz of water and 1/3 cup of DME. Do I need to step this up in order to pitch into a 1.055 gravity wort?

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I would step it up if you can. It would sure help.

So wait a couple of days, toss it in the fridge, pour off the beer and pitch the yeast slurry in a bigger starter? Say about 1 liter/1 cup DME?

mixmasterob said:

So wait a couple of days, toss it in the fridge, pour off the beer and pitch the yeast slurry in a bigger starter? Say about 1 liter/1 cup DME?

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That should work great.

I have a little trick that makes my life easier. I start my smaller starters in a big bottle...after they ferment out I simple make a small amount of concentrated wort, cool it down, and add it to the same vessel and shake it up. Works great.

I don't have time to step up my starter. Right now it is about 1/2 a liter. It looks like it already fermented out the 1/3 cup DME. Is it safe to pitch this?

It is safe, but you may get under attenuated beer and a slow start to fermentation.

I stepped it up to a 1 liter 3 oz DME starter. However, I had to brew today so it only sat in that starter for 6 hours. Will that 6 hours make any difference in my final pitching rate?

I don't know about all that, but mine has been fermenting a 1.045 batch of beer for over a week and I am barely below 1.020 at this point. I am sure not impressed.


UPDATE/EDIT **** Well, I take that back. I measured 1.019 this morning, day 9. I just measured now and I got 1.011. I was so suprised I measured with two hydrometers at the same time. It's legit! Looks like it is going to finish below 1.010. I am happy with that. I underpitched so it just took a while. ******


Now the question is, could this yeast cake be ready for 1.090 IIPA?

Pitched my starter yesterday around 5 o clock. At noon today, a 2 inch thick krausen is sitting atop my beer. I recommend giving this harvesting technique a try if you haven't already. Free yeast!

I harvested some Pacman yeast this weekend and figured I would share my experience. I started with 3 22oz. bombers:

-Dead Guy Ale - didn't say Pacman anywhere on the bottle, though it did have a bit of yeast in the bottom of the bottle.
-Brutal bitter - did indeed say Pacman yeast in the ingredients on the bottle, had tons of yeast at the bottom.
-Shakespeare Stout - did indeed say Pacman yeast in the ingredients on the bottle, had tons of yeast at the bottom.

Basically I just decanted the beer off and drank it, poured a little sterilized water in the bottom of each bottle, swirled, then poured the contents of all 3 into the bottom of a clean/sterile White Labs vial and threw it in the fridge. A day later there's about a half inch of slurry in the bottom of the vial. Whenever I feel like brewing with it I'll step it up into a starter.

All 3 of those beers were fantastic, btw. My favorite was the Brutal Bitter. I'm going to have to brew that sometime soon.

DrinkNoH2O said:

All 3 of those beers were fantastic, btw. My favorite was the Brutal Bitter. I'm going to have to brew that sometime soon.

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make my mouth water thinking about driking them, start with the dead guy, move up the bruttal bitter and end with stout!

I have found if I drink a brutal bitter before a deadguy ale, the dead guy just doesn't seem hoppy enough!