Small (2.5 gallon) All Grain Batches?

I've done only 3 extract brews so far, but planning on doing my 4th this weekend. I'm very interested in starting all grain, but I don't think I could get SWMBO to agree to a new bigger kettle purchase though. Currently I have a 5 gallon SS pot for my partial boil extract batches.

I would like start piecing together the equipment needed to do 5 gallon all grain batches except the kettle, and just start with smaller batches (2.5 gallons?).

I was planning on my making my own immersion chiller first (as I could also use this for my extract brews) based off of Schlenkerla's Design:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/simple-immersion-wort-chiller-33036/

Then a mashtun using ChemE's and DarkSide's design for Fly Sparging in the future.
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f51/my-brew-build-elm-street-brewery-part-3-mash-lautertun-129913/

What do you guys think of my plan to start with small batches? Would fly sparging be silly for such small batches? Could the same mashtun design (i.e manifold/false bottom vs braid) be used for either process?

I think small batches are fine-- it certainly makes the brew day a bit easier. There's no law that I'm aware of that says you must brew five (or more!) gallons at at time.

As for fly sparging, my opinion is to forget about it. Batch sparging can be nearly as efficient and takes less time, less equipment, and is simpler. I regularly get 80% efficiency with a double batch sparge.

The same mashtun design should work well for either sparging technique, though it's less critical for batch sparging than it is for fly sparging.

-Steve

Search "Brew in a bag" on this forum.

I agree - 2.5 gallon batches fit in nicely. I can use a stainless corny keg for a ferment vessel, I can keep 4 different batches in a single refrigerator w/ temp control, and I can brew many different styles quite often.

Fly sparging is great if you want to mess with it, but as SavageSteve mentions - batch sparging is nearly as efficient, and much less time, yet rivals the efficiency of fly sparging.

Do whatever method you enjoy. If you're making good beer - who cares?!

Laughing_Gnome_Invisible said:

Search "Brew in a bag" on this forum.

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I've considered doing this and I'll probably try it out at some point, but I want to eventually do bigger batches and will need the equipment I mentioned before.

Hmmm, maybe I will do a small brew in a bag as my first all grain. That's not a bad idea!

SavageSteve said:

I think small batches are fine-- it certainly makes the brew day a bit easier. There's no law that I'm aware of that says you must brew five (or more!) gallons at at time.

As for fly sparging, my opinion is to forget about it. Batch sparging can be nearly as efficient and takes less time, less equipment, and is simpler. I regularly get 80% efficiency with a double batch sparge.

The same mashtun design should work well for either sparging technique, though it's less critical for batch sparging than it is for fly sparging.

-Steve

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I think you may have convinced me about batch sparging. At least to start out... since I can use the same manifold/falsebottom for batch as I can for fly. I need to read about it more since I really focused my previous effort into the fly sparging technique.

XXguy said:

I agree - 2.5 gallon batches fit in nicely. I can use a stainless corny keg for a ferment vessel, I can keep 4 different batches in a single refrigerator w/ temp control, and I can brew many different styles quite often.

Fly sparging is great if you want to mess with it, but as SavageSteve mentions - batch sparging is nearly as efficient, and much less time, yet rivals the efficiency of fly sparging.

Do whatever method you enjoy. If you're making good beer - who cares?!

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I"m limited to the size of my son of a fermentation chiller... it only holds one carboy. Being as busy I am one brew fermenting at a time is good enough for me. I just need to work on brewing more often to keep the chiller always working.

I have never brewed anything bigger than 2.5 gallons... It is easy to do inside, it allows for more variety and you can get away with a smaller brew kettle and a smaller (or no) starter... I say go for it!

I made a 2 gallon MLT for small batches, experimental batches and partial mashes. It works great. Really, the only negative for me is that it still takes about the same amount of time as doing a larger batch. So for the same amount of work, you get less. However, I also get to brew more often so it balances out.

When I first started doing all grain, I did a few a few 3 gallon batches, but I decided that it was just too much work for too little beer so I went back to partial mash until I got my keggle.

I made my first partial mash with it last weekend and I don't disagree with you. I think it'll end up being used more for partial mashes, braggots and gluten free experiments more than mini, all grain batches

I do a lot of 2.5 gallon AG batches, usually in the winter on my stovetop.

I posted a lot of info in the mr beer thread that you may find helpful.

I posted some all grain small batchrecipes here, https://www.homebrewtalk.com/785533-post702.html

ANd a bit of a primer on AG with pics here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/738927-post659.html

Many of those I show in there were done with an unmodified 2 gallon cooler. But you can do a lot bigger beers with a 5 gallon one.

One thing that is invaluable for stovetop brewing of ANY kind is fermcap s foam inhibitor. You can have you kettle nearly filled to the brim with a rolling boil and not worry about boilovers.

Fermcap-S Foam Inhibitor- 1 oz. :: Midwest Supplies Homebrewing and Winemaking Supplies

Not to steal the thread, but I will be doing 2.5 gallon AG batches as well. My question though is what is the average grain bill for a 2.5 gallon batch? I have only done extract to this point and I am trying to figure out how much grains I am going to need to buy.

sp1365 said:

Not to steal the thread, but I will be doing 2.5 gallon AG batches as well. My question though is what is the average grain bill for a 2.5 gallon batch? I have only done extract to this point and I am trying to figure out how much grains I am going to need to buy.

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It depends on your recipe, and the grav of the brews you are aiming for, really.
4.5 pounds of grain nets you an approximate og of 1.047. 3.5 nets you around 1.043. 6 pounds is about 1.071. These are all rough numbers based on the grain bills of some of my recipes in beersmith.

There's a lot of great information here. Thanks Revvy. I know you used an unmodified 2 gallon cooler for your small batches, but I don't want to have a separate mash tun depending on the batch size I plan to brew. I'm torn between which mashtun would be both cost effective and provide the flexibility to brew any size batch (from 2.5 gallons all the way up to 10 gallons).

Trying to decide between these two Rubbermaid 10 gallon round cooler (Edit: 10 gallon from home depot is $39) or a Coleman 50 qt Xtreme . The Rubbermaid 10 gallon will allow me to explore fly sparging in the future if I ever desire to, but it's a little smaller and more expensive than the Coleman. The Coleman is cheaper but obviously limits me to batch sparging.

I've looked over Bobby_M's mash tun size calculations here:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f11/how-big-your-mash-tun-needs-123585/



This covers larger batches pretty well and gave me the information I needed to choose a 10/12.5 gallon cooler rather than 5 gallon cooler.

Will these larger coolers be effective for small batches?

I'm thinking of trying my first all grain brew and wanted to see if you can add water to the wort when you add it to the fermenter because i can only boil 2.5 gallons at a time and would want to brew a 5 gallon batch

buckeyebrew said:

I'm thinking of trying my first all grain brew and wanted to see if you can add water to the wort when you add it to the fermenter because i can only boil 2.5 gallons at a time and would want to brew a 5 gallon batch

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Not really. You can only extract as many sugars as you can, and if you mash with such a small amount of water to only get 2.5 gallons total, you won't be able to get much extraction. If you water that down, you'd get even less.

You could do a half batch very easily, though.

I have about 6 2.5 and 3 gallon batches under my belt. I like it. I use a 5 gallon rubermaid MLT design from Cheap and Easy MLT. I like it I have 3 Three gallon Glass fermenters. I make a 5 gallon batch of my house ale and split it between two fermenters. Go for it!! I made some pretty damn good beers with extract and grains But I love the results I have made with all Grain!! You will reward yourself with better, and fresher beer!!!

Good Luck!!!

Mike

Your going to need all the water for you 5 gal batch as sparge water. You could batch sparge and collect your wort in multipe pots, then blend them together for consistency, divide into boil pots and start your boil from there.

You'll have to play with it a bit to figure out your boil off with two pots. Hop additions could be added to only one pot and the other one wouldn't need a full hour boil.

Cool individually and combine in the primary.

Good luck ,

Bull

awesome i have 2 big pots so i could boil 2.5 gallons in each and then combine in fermenter, i like the idea of only adding hop additions to one how long would i need to boil the non hop addition wort if i took this route thanks so much for your responses

You would need to boil long enough to get a hot break.

I would still hop both, since you'd get a better hop utilization. In fact, splitting up your batch this way requires you to hop both kettles in order to reach your target. Otherwise, in BeerSmith or similar, you need to change your boil size to 2.5G and you'll watch your IBUs plummet.

I've done this before and haven't has any noticable difference in my hop utilization.

I entered it in the brewers friend calc and the utilization was exactly double for the 2.5 gal batch.

I wonder if the 2 programs figure it differently somehow?

If only hopping one pot, he could reduce the boil time for his second half and start cooling it sooner.

Has anyone else had any hands on experience with this and what were your results?

Bull

I happen to have a pot big enough for a five gallon boil (turkey fryer set up). So at times when I make 5 gallons I boil in one pot and split it into two fermenters.

I not sure if that is the route your looking at. I think if I were boiling in two pots I would split the hops into both pots. However your hop info sounds like it would work just fine, and makes sense to me. You have double the IBU's and then are just adding more wort that would get mixed in. When we dry hop its not like we are boiling those hops either.

Sorry for rambling, just thinking out loud.

Best of luck.

Mike

+1 on brew in a bag. When i started back brewing and I did a couple extract batches and then started all grain again. I never have liked sparging. I was really struggling with my equipment. So I started looking around for alterante methods. I found brew in bag and thought this would be a great way to brew all grain and be a stepping stone to a more traditional mash. What I found its a method all on its own. Just as good, and far easier than sparging IMO.

Also if your hell bent on using a mash tun. Look for the 50qt igloo cube. I got mine at target for under $10. I'm still doing no sparge but will use it as a mash tun and recirculate with pump during the mash. That is if I ever have another nice weekend anytime soon, and I get over what ever crud that has me sicker than a dog for the last 2weeks.

Read this on another website for a suggestion for someone brewing with a smaller kettle "Mash about 50% more grain than the recipe calls for, sparge about three gallons, boil, and cut the batch with boiled and cooled water added to the fermenter to make up the five gallons. " Does this seem like a reasonable suggestion?

CrankyOldLibrarian said:

When I first started doing all grain, I did a few a few 3 gallon batches, but I decided that it was just too much work for too little beer so I went back to partial mash until I got my keggle.

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How is partial mash any less work than AG? You still need to mash, you still need to boil.

bullinachinashop said:

I've done this before and haven't has any noticable difference in my hop utilization.

I entered it in the brewers friend calc and the utilization was exactly double for the 2.5 gal batch.

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If cutting the batch size in half doubles the IBUs, then the program is calculating incorrectly. Hop utilization is highly dependent on wort gravity.

Synovia said:

How is partial mash any less work than AG? You still need to mash, you still need to boil.

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The difference I think (though I have never partial mashed, personally) is that you can mash some of the grain in the kettle, then add extract to get the OG. It's different from building a dedicated mash tun for the full amount of grains.

Homercidal said:

The difference I think (though I have never partial mashed, personally) is that you can mash some of the grain in the kettle, then add extract to get the OG. It's different from building a dedicated mash tun for the full amount of grains.

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Right, but you can go AG without a mash tun (BIAB).

buckeyebrew said:

Read this on another website for a suggestion for someone brewing with a smaller kettle "Mash about 50% more grain than the recipe calls for, sparge about three gallons, boil, and cut the batch with boiled and cooled water added to the fermenter to make up the five gallons. " Does this seem like a reasonable suggestion?

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Any thoughts or experiences trying this?

buckeyebrew said:

Any thoughts or experiences trying this?

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Totally different discussion than making small batches....see this current discussion for THAT https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/concentrated-all-grain-boil-163371/