What is up with my lack of hoppiness?

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Lando

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My last several brews, especially my IPA's and IIPA's, don't seem to have the hop character, aroma and overall final product I am looking for.
My most recent one was the BYO 90 min clone where I sub magnum for warrior. I even split this into two 2.5 gallon batches after chilling and pitched one with ringwood and one with 1056. Neither beers are impressive, or even close to 90 min. I even added a half oz in the mash to try and make it pop a bit more.
I hit all of my marks, mash temps...etc.
The only thing I can think of is the hops being old, or not a vigereous enough boil.
All of the hops in this brew were about a year old (been sealed in the freezer after being purchased on closeout from hopsdirect about a year ago) except the simcoe, but I am not getting much simcoe out of the nose in either of these. None of the old hops smell bad or anything and have always been in the freezer.
Could a weak boil cause this? I boiled about like I normally do, but maybe slightly less. Could this affect utilization?:confused:
 
You mentioned everything except for the amount of hops you were using.

What was your hop schedule for the last brew? How much and at what times?
 
Lando said:
My last several brews, especially my IPA's and IIPA's, don't seem to have the hop character, aroma and overall final product I am looking for.
My most recent one was the BYO 90 min clone where I sub magnum for warrior. I even split this into two 2.5 gallon batches after chilling and pitched one with ringwood and one with 1056. Neither beers are impressive, or even close to 90 min. I even added a half oz in the mash to try and make it pop a bit more.
I hit all of my marks, mash temps...etc.
The only thing I can think of is the hops being old, or not a vigereous enough boil.
All of the hops in this brew were about a year old (been sealed in the freezer after being purchased on closeout from hopsdirect about a year ago) except the simcoe, but I am not getting much simcoe out of the nose in either of these. None of the old hops smell bad or anything and have always been in the freezer.
Could a weak boil cause this? I boiled about like I normally do, but maybe slightly less. Could this affect utilization?:confused:
Click to expand...

I've had the same problems with my brews. I've had to up the hop bill across the board about 10 percent to match the hop bitterness/flavor in the few commercial clone brews that I have attempted. After discovering this issue I tried to fix it by boiling as hard as I possible could, but it didn't help in my situation. The only thing that worked for me is using additional hops.
 
There's no secret to big hop flavor and aroma; it's simply late hop additions in the last 0-15 minutes of the boil plus dry hopping. My last IPA has tons of flavor and aroma with Centennial, Simcoe, and Amarillo hops. I used 7 ounces of hops; 2 oz for bittering, 4 oz for late addition flavor/aroma, and 1 oz dry hopping.
 
+1 for dry hopping for hop character

+1 for water profile if bitterness is the problem

Or just use more hops!
 
Here is the recipe for the brew.
I have no idea what my water profile is.

Original Gravity: 1.092 (1.070 - 1.090)
Terminal Gravity: 1.023 (1.010 - 1.020)
Color: 13.75 (8.0 - 15.0)
Alcohol: 9.15% (7.5% - 10.0%)
Bitterness: 134.8 (60.0 - 120.0)

Ingredients:
16.5 lb Pilsner Malt
1.66 lb Amber Malt
2.0 oz Amarillo (7.5%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min
1.0 oz Simcoe (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min
.5 oz Warrior (16.0%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min

1.0 oz Amarillo (7.5%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
.5 oz Warrior (16.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
.5 oz Simcoe (13.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter

All hops are added continuously throughout the boil.
Magnum is being used instead of warrior.
Mash at 150 for one hour.
.5oz Hungrian medium toast oak added to each in secondary for one week.
 
That recipe would only call for .58 oz of late addition hops (0-15 minutes), if the hops were added in exact equal portions through the 90 minute boil. Even with dry hopping, I'm not surprised the taste was lacking. Shoot for at least 2 oz of late hop additions and I think you'll be more pleased.
 
What leads to hop aroma fading out quickly? I keg and I love what dry hopping does for me but I find that after I tap a keg, within a week or so the hop aroma starts to dramatically drop out of the beer.

...and "drink faster" is not the answer.
 
Yeah, you definitely need more late hops. In an IPA, you need at minimum 2oz in the last 15 minutes, but preferably 2-4oz (or more).

Rottnme, that's just the nature of these extremely fragile compounds. They're already in such tiny quantities in our beers, and they're very susceptible to settling out of the beer, or riding away on a plume of CO2. You could dry hop in the keg if you want that continued flavor...
 
Rottnme said:
What leads to hop aroma fading out quickly? I keg and I love what dry hopping does for me but I find that after I tap a keg, within a week or so the hop aroma starts to dramatically drop out of the beer.

...and "drink faster" is not the answer.
Click to expand...

I had this same problem with the IPA I brewed awhile back. It's only been in the bottle for about 6 weeks but the hop flavor has definitely dropped since tasting the first beer at 3 weeks. The hop flavor was a little weak to begin with I admit, but now you can hardly call it an IPA. This was the Brooklyn Brew "Everyday IPA" kit.
 
Great topic. I've recently become a fan of IPAs and I was planning to brew one in the near future. This post answered most of my questions. Thanks!
 
Lando said:
Here is the recipe for the brew.
I have no idea what my water profile is.

Original Gravity: 1.092 (1.070 - 1.090)
Terminal Gravity: 1.023 (1.010 - 1.020)
Color: 13.75 (8.0 - 15.0)
Alcohol: 9.15% (7.5% - 10.0%)
Bitterness: 134.8 (60.0 - 120.0)

Ingredients:
16.5 lb Pilsner Malt
1.66 lb Amber Malt
2.0 oz Amarillo (7.5%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min
1.0 oz Simcoe (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min
.5 oz Warrior (16.0%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min

1.0 oz Amarillo (7.5%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
.5 oz Warrior (16.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter
.5 oz Simcoe (13.0%) - added dry to secondary fermenter

All hops are added continuously throughout the boil.
Magnum is being used instead of warrior.
Mash at 150 for one hour.
.5oz Hungrian medium toast oak added to each in secondary for one week.
Click to expand...

3.5 oz of total kettle hops is not much at all. especially for a beer as big as 90minute IPA.
i suspect there is a mistake in the recipe.
 
Do you use brewing software? If for instance I want to make an IPA that has 75 IBU's I adjust the hops (type and duration) in the software. For bitterness your going to use a high alpha acid First Wort Hop and then another addition for 60 minutes. You need to add these in the beginning of the boil because more bitterness will be drawn out with the 60 min boil. For flavor use the hop bursting technique's that the other HBT members are talking about. I also like to use from 3-5 type of hops as well. I think it provides a nice complexity. Dry hopping will give nice aroma and flavor as well. Don't be afraid to add 3 oz of cascade or something similar for dry hopping. You will taste the difference.
 
You may also want to look at adding gypsum to the boil as well. To be more precise with this you will need to know your water profile though.
 
2.0 oz Amarillo (7.5%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min
1.0 oz Simcoe (13.0%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min
.5 oz Warrior (16.0%) - added during boil, boiled 90 min

Yeah, you need more hops and a better understanding of how they work in the boil. No aroma or flavor? You don't have any aroma or flavor additions. That looks like bitter root soup.

10 gallon batch.

1.5 oz High Alpha hop. 15% boil for 60 minutes
1.5 - 2 oz Flavoring addition boil for 30 minutes
1.5 - 2 oz Aroma/Flavoring boil for 10 minutes
1.5 - 2 oz Aroma boil for 5 minutes
1.5 - 2 oz Aroma at Flame out.
 
Rottnme said:
What leads to hop aroma fading out quickly? I keg and I love what dry hopping does for me but I find that after I tap a keg, within a week or so the hop aroma starts to dramatically drop out of the beer.

...and "drink faster" is not the answer.
Click to expand...

Dry hop the keg.
 
LuckyRVA said:
I had this same problem with the IPA I brewed awhile back. It's only been in the bottle for about 6 weeks but the hop flavor has definitely dropped since tasting the first beer at 3 weeks. The hop flavor was a little weak to begin with I admit, but now you can hardly call it an IPA. This was the Brooklyn Brew "Everyday IPA" kit.
Click to expand...

Keep in mind that these days the definition of IPA has been skewed a fair bit. With many brewers putting out the hop forward/aggressive beers we now associate the typical IPA with mouth-puckering bitterness. The range for American IPA is 40-70IBU....I'd say most popular IPAs today are pushing the high end of that range.

Your IPA is most likely close to the BJCP style guidelines, its just many IPAs out there are way over the top. I'm not saying its a bad thing, its just how the style has evolved especially in the US.
 
I should have been more clear about the hop additions.
The hops were all mixed together in a bowl and equal amounts added continuously at equal intervals throughout the last 60 min of boil.
The pilsner malt was the reason for the 90 min boil.
I also hopped with .5oz of amarillo and .5oz of magnum in the mash.
 
Still not that much in terms of late hops... slightly more than 1oz in the last 20mins. I'd say the average pale ale has 2oz of late hops, frequently in the last 10min. Add more hops. And don't waste so much in the beginning of the boil. Get a big charge of high alpha hops, and then save the rest for 20min and under.
 
A hard boil will drive off the lighter oils faster, making the problem worse. You might want to cut back on the heat for the final 15 minutes.

Once again, bittering is from the alpha acids and needs a strong boil to isomerize properly. Flavor and aroma are from the oils and the lighter the oil, the faster it gets boiled out.
 

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