Hop Back - Benefits

I have been considering adding a hop back to my system. I am curious as to some of the seemingly additional benefits one might get. It would seem that the hops in the unit would be a good pre-filter for a plate chiller or for recirculation while IC chilling. I get so much cold break, that I nearly always have issues draining once the break has settled in the kettle. Does anyone here use one regularly? How do you tweak your recipes for use?

Thanks
KD

If you like beers like the offerings of Bear Republic, definitely work the hopback into your system. I used to use the el cheapo version that used the small glass container. IMO it produces better results than dry hopping...

Soulive said:

If you like beers like the offerings of Bear Republic, definitely work the hopback into your system. I used to use the el cheapo version that used the small glass container. IMO it produces better results than dry hopping...

Click to expand...

Thanks Soulive. I was wondering if I could reduce or eliminate DH by using one. Yes, I do like Bear Republic beers btw.

korndog said:

Thanks Soulive. I was wondering if I could reduce or eliminate DH by using one. Yes, I do like Bear Republic beers btw.

Click to expand...

For me, it depended on the beer. I usually reduced my dry hopping, but in some cases I was able to eliminate it...

I think the dry hopping still has a place when you add a hopback into your process. Some of the hop aromatics you gain from the hopback will still be lost in primary fermentation. Dryhopping in the secondary reintroduces some of these aromatics. Besides, hos hardcore is it that you could hop during the boil, post bouil on the way to the chiller, then again during the fermentation. The only next logical step is the Randell. That is hop nirvana.

Ryan_PA said:

I think the dry hopping still has a place when you add a hopback into your process. Some of the hop aromatics you gain from the hopback will still be lost in primary fermentation. Dryhopping in the secondary reintroduces some of these aromatics. Besides, hos hardcore is it that you could hop during the boil, post bouil on the way to the chiller, then again during the fermentation. The only next logical step is the Randell. That is hop nirvana.

Click to expand...

Our club has a Randall. Love that thing. Don't forget the Mash Hops dude!

I have almost finished my hopback. I cant wait to try it. I'm going to use it on the 9-9-09 barleywine. It was very easy to make and the parts were cheap so its no big loss if I don't like it. I'm sure I will even if its just as a HB filter. A few pics for you.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll153/beerthirty_01/DSCN2295.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll153/beerthirty_01/DSCN2296.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll153/beerthirty_01/DSCN2297.jpg

ok just to sound like the huge noob i am, What the heck is that for?

John

beerthirty said:

I have almost finished my hopback. I cant wait to try it. I'm going to use it on the 9-9-09 barleywine. It was very easy to make and the parts were cheap so its no big loss if I don't like it. I'm sure I will even if its just as a HB filter. A few pics for you.
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll153/beerthirty_01/DSCN2295.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll153/beerthirty_01/DSCN2296.jpg
http://i287.photobucket.com/albums/ll153/beerthirty_01/DSCN2297.jpg

Click to expand...

Beerthiry,

Did you just solder the copper right into the canister? Thats what it looks like to me. Seems incredibly simple to do. If so did you just use the same solder that you would use for normal copper pipes? If so I should have everything needed to do this already and I'll probably do it.

jspence1 said:

ok just to sound like the huge noob i am, What the heck is that for?

John

Click to expand...

You fill it with hops and put it between your kettle and fermenter. Wort comes in the top, goes over the hops, get yummy hoppy goodness, then out the bottom.

Bokonon said:

Beerthiry,

Did you just solder the copper right into the canister? Thats what it looks like to me. Seems incredibly simple to do. If so did you just use the same solder that you would use for normal copper pipes? If so I should have everything needed to do this already and I'll probably do it.

Click to expand...

You need different flux. Look for liquid acid flux made for stainless steel.

Nice Hopback BTW.

beerthirty said:

I have almost finished my hopback. I cant wait to try it. I'm going to use it on the 9-9-09 barleywine. It was very easy to make and the parts were cheap so its no big loss if I don't like it. I'm sure I will even if its just as a HB filter. A few pics for you.

Click to expand...

What are you using to strain the hops back?

BierMuncher said:

What are you using to strain the hops back?

Click to expand...

You can see what I use to filter in mine. I have a false bottom and below that I have a finer screen. I also plan to use mine as a grant and I figure that the finer screen will help collect some pellet hop trub



the false bottom and screen



my fittings are silver brazed into place.

Mike

What is the volumn of that ? How small can it be and still be practical as a grant?

ben_j8mmin said:

What is the volumn of that ? How small can it be and still be practical as a grant?

Click to expand...

Mine holds half a gallon of liquid. I am not sure I would want to go any smaller.

Mike

This may be stupid, but what is the use of a grant in homebrewing?

Ryan_PA said:

This may be stupid, but what is the use of a grant in homebrewing?

Click to expand...

No stupid questions!

I wanted a grant for my HERMS. I was worried that the run off would collapse the grain bed and then cause a stuck sparge. I have, to date, not had that problem but I am prepared if it happens. The MLT would run into the grant and then from the grant it would be pumped through the HERMS coil. This will allow the MLT to gravity drain and then having less chance of a grain bed collapse.

A grant can also be used to help prime a pump. Or,also in my case, I would use the grant if I decide to get a plate chiller so i can help filter out any trub before it goes to the chiller.

Mike

Sorry for the late return, last night was BATF pub night. I used the largest canister in the set available from Linen and things. Yes its soldered but you need 95/5 solder(what homebrewers would use and acid flux) I used a jewelry repair kit, it had the right kind of flux. It also needs to be done with a bit more heat, either oxy-ocet or mapp gas. I used map gas. during the heating process it burns the flux off and you wont get a good joint. I found that by getting it a little hotter, apply the solder which ran through the joint and then flood it with more flux, the solder was pulled back up into the joint as the flux boiled away.
BM I have a collapsed old FB that I was going to cut up eventually to use but thought I would try a paint strainer first. I still have to install a diptube to the inside of the bottom fitting so I lose as little wort as possible.
Unless you plan on using more than 1 oz in the hopback, even the smallest cannister should work ok for a hopback. I think that even the largest is too small for a grant, but I have never used a grant.

How difficult is it to regulate flow in and out of the unit if pumping through a plate chiller? I assume you let the hop back fill up, turn on the pump and then play with the kettle drain valve and pump-out valve. I would want to have some margin for error in the tank, so It seems large is better in this case. Does that make sense?

The lid is sealed so the pump should create a suction through the hopback, similar to not using one at all. The smaller the air pocket in the lid the less the air pocket should cavitate. You could always add another valve on the outlet of the hopback and control flow with that one allowing the kettle valve to remain full open. That is probably the route I will go so I don't have to rely on the lid seal as much. I will fill the hopback with the lid open slightly then snap it shut when I get the level I want, then turn on the pump and open the outlet valve on the hopback.

If I understand it correctly, the wort simply runs through a bed of hops (presumably whole hops) in the hopback, then continues on to the chiller or fermenter. There is no recirculation through the hopback, it's a one-way ride. Is that true?

Is speed of flow or temperature of the wort a factor in achieving the desired effect?

People who have warm groundwater often have to chill in stages either with an IC or a plate chiller or CFC, first with groundwater to get down to 100 degrees or so, then with chilled water to take it the rest of the way down. Recirculating wort with a pump out of the kettle, through the chiller and back to the kettle is one way of doing this. Would it be ok to have your hopback in the recirculation path when you do this?

Finally, why not just throw a bunch more hops in the boil kettle at flame out? Does the hopback extract more hop flavor and oils than simply steeping as you're chilling? Why?

True. It has the added benefit of filtering hot break material out as it passes through the bed of hops.
I'm sure it is. The slower the flow and hotter the temp the more extraction you will get. I normally chill from a boil so the temp will be close to 200* and I empty the kettle in under 15 min so it needs to be as hot as possible.
I have very warm ground water avg 85*, I have found a way to do single pass cooling of 10 gallons in about 15 minutes see here https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=73315&highlight=hell+earth
this design has worked out very well for me. By recirculating back into an open kettle you no longer have the aromas trapped, defeating the purpose of a hopback. I suppose if the wort was cooled enough on the first pass, little would escape to vapor.
The hopback replaces 0 min additions, the benefit is all the aroma you smell coming out of the kettle gets trapped in the cooling wort due to the closed design. (any aroma you can smell has already left your wort)

That's a really nice reverse-IC/CFC-in-a-bucket you have there beerthirty. I have a plate chiller but I guess the same concept would work.

Back to the hopback. There are cannister style water filters designed for hot water. Most can handle temps up to 160 F, some to 200 F, and I found a stainless steel one that can handle 250 F at 150 PSI. So assuming you got your temp down within range of your filter, why not just pump through the hop filled water filter? Replace the filter element with a dip tube and screen. You could pack a lot of hops in a 10 inch housing, I'd think, but there are also 20 inch models. (Note: The SS ones are really expensive, but the plastic ones aren't too bad.)

billtzk said:

That's a really nice reverse-IC/CFC-in-a-bucket you have there beerthirty. I have a plate chiller but I guess the same concept would work.

Back to the hopback. There are cannister style water filters designed for hot water. Most can handle temps up to 160 F, some to 200 F, and I found a stainless steel one that can handle 250 F at 150 PSI. So assuming you got your temp down within range of your filter, why not just pump through the hop filled water filter? Replace the filter element with a dip tube and screen. You could pack a lot of hops in a 10 inch housing, I'd think, but there are also 20 inch models. (Note: The SS ones are really expensive, but the plastic ones aren't too bad.)

Click to expand...

That sounds like a good setup too. I think I will go for a unit hanging off the kettle drain with a QD. Hose to pump and then to plate chiller and back to kettle. It should leave pretty clear wort with no cold/hot break if I am thinking this through correctly. What filter medium (besides whole hops) do you think would work best without any risk of sticking? I'm thinking if I have to use pellet hops in a bag that maybe the bag will work.

billtzk, All the water filters I found at were rated at 160* or below. I put wort through at 200-210* this setup cost $10 if you figure $5 each on the canister set, $25 if you figure the complete set.
Korndog, until I get the false bottom cut I plan on using a paint strainer bag and a SS scrubby to keep the bag off the outlet.

korndog, I like the idea of hanging a hopback off the kettle valve QD. I wonder if gravity would fill it and go on to prime the pump without problems.

beerthirty, your project is definitely less expensive and I normally opt for building something over buying it whether I save money or not. I just like making a lot of my own equipment. But I can't resist exploring the idea of the ready-made filter canister hopback. It would be different, if nothing else. Here is one that is claimed good to 200 F, but it looks exactly like the ones that are advertised as being good to 160 F on other sites, so it is hard to say. And the plastic one is cheaper than the same unit on other sites. -- High Temperature Filter Housings. There is a stainless one on the same page for which temperature is no issue, but it is seriously $$$.

bill, It should prime with no problem due to the weight of wort above it. I wasn't going to hang mine, because with the hopback and pump sitting on the same plane below the kettle it would still freeflow or prime(its all down hill to the pump). I am worried about the weight over time(fatuige) on the soldered fittings. Of course with that hi temp filter housing that issue would be moot.
korndog, remember that if you recirc through the hopback and you get any aroma from the kettle, the hopback becomes a hopfilter and you might lose some aroma to vapor. Also if you are piling coldbreak on top of hotbreak will it redislove? I suppose its worth a try. Let me know how it turns out.