Lacto fermented pickles

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passedpawn said:
Nope. Sounded like a logical thing to do, but the people who profess to have success out there do it exactly like this. (I did preheat the jar before I added the hot brine). I'm not fermenting these BTW. At least not intentionally :)
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Fridge pickles. I missed that.

-1 for reading comprehension
 
passedpawn said:
I made a batch this weekend.

I read that the grape/bay leaf trick is unnecessary if you remove the pickle ends. Apparently something in the leaves inhibits the enzymes in the end of the pickle that cause the mushyness.

I added calcium chloride to mine to maintain the crunch. I'm going to leave them on the counter for another day, then refrigerate. I went with the following recipe (mostly from the internet, added my own mods)

  • 1 Large White Onion, diced
  • 6 Garlic Cloves, minced
  • 1 Teaspoon Whole Yellow Mustard Seed
  • 6 Stalks of Dill
  • 2 Tablespoons Whole Black Peppercorns
  • Fingerling Cucumbers, ends removed, halved
  • 1 gallon glass jar

    Brine:
  • 7 Cups Water
  • 2 Cups White Vinegar
  • 1/3 Cup Kosher Salt
  • 1/2 Cup White Sugar
  • 1 tbsp CaCl

Place Onion, Garlic, Mustard Seed, peppercorns, and Dill in bottom of jar. Fill with Cucumbers standing on end.
Heat Brine ingredients to boiling and pour over Cucumbers. Let stand uncovered for 2 days, cover and refrigerate. Pickles will keep refrigerated up to one year.​
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Grape leaves are used for their tannins, bay leaves are used for flavor mostly. Traditionally they used grape leaves in barrels the divide the layers and give the spices a place to rest so they don't go straight to the bottom, and the added benefit of keeping them extra crunchy. You can use them at the bottom of crocks as well to help with the crunch.

Not sure why you're leaving them on the counter, they won't be lacto fermented with the vinegar

Seems like a lot of dill weed for 1 gallon.
Why no dill seeds though?
 
Resonator said:
Grape leaves are used for their tannins, bay leaves are used for flavor mostly. Traditionally they used grape leaves in barrels the divide the layers and give the spices a place to rest so they don't go straight to the bottom, and the added benefit of keeping them extra crunchy. You can use them at the bottom of crocks as well to help with the crunch.

Not sure why you're leaving them on the counter, they won't be lacto fermented with the vinegar

Seems like a lot of dill weed for 1 gallon.
Why no dill seeds though?
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I"m not trying to ferment them. I've fermented pickles before. I'm following the process written by another. I don't know why he didn't just put it in the fridge immediately.

I used 1 tbsp of dill seed, not the dill weed stalks. I meant to change that but forgot.
 
passedpawn said:
I"m not trying to ferment them. I've fermented pickles before. I'm following the process written by another. I don't know why he didn't just put it in the fridge immediately.



I used 1 tbsp of dill seed, not the dill weed stalks. I meant to change that but forgot.
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I like to use both, or if I can find them just dill crowns -- that's truly the best flavor of dill.
 
Resonator said:
The crowns are the developing seeds on the plant. It's basically both flavors in one with a much better/fresher taste.
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I know what it is. I don't like dill heads in pickles as much as I like them in dilly beans. With pickles, I like a little more pulled back dill character. Present, but not too bright or strong. For dilly beans, I like bright, fresh, and strong dill flavor.
 
signpost said:
I'm not a fan of pickles, but my mother-in-law is and she tried doing a batch in a 3 gallon crock. It's been sitting there for a few days and has shown absolutely no sign of activity and doesn't look anything like the 'after' pictures you have all shown.



My theory is that she killed the lacto. She made her brine along with vinegar 'with the mother' and boiled it. Then poured the boiling liquid over the cucumbers, onions, garlic, dill, and whatever else she added to the crock. Is it just me, or would the boiling temps kill off anything that might do some fermenting?



If I am right, what can be done to start up the fermentation at this point? Can I just throw in a handful of 2-row like I would for a sour mash? Is that likely to be the same type of lacto as what was in the vinegar?



BTW, it's cazy that this thread popped up right as my MIL decided it was time to attempt this.
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How much vinegar? It might not ferment but vinegar makes pickles, too. It's just they you use one or the other usually. Hot vinegar is fine.
 
ericbw said:
How much vinegar? It might not ferment but vinegar makes pickles, too. It's just they you use one or the other usually. Hot vinegar is fine.
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I think my MIL had combined recipes using several methods into one. Or at least, she was using one type of recipe and thought she was using a different type. Either way, she's going to end up with pickles. They are just brined instead of fermented.
 
signpost said:
I'm not a fan of pickles, but my mother-in-law is and she tried doing a batch in a 3 gallon crock. It's been sitting there for a few days and has shown absolutely no sign of activity and doesn't look anything like the 'after' pictures you have all shown.



My theory is that she killed the lacto. She made her brine along with vinegar 'with the mother' and boiled it. Then poured the boiling liquid over the cucumbers, onions, garlic, dill, and whatever else she added to the crock. Is it just me, or would the boiling temps kill off anything that might do some fermenting?



If I am right, what can be done to start up the fermentation at this point? Can I just throw in a handful of 2-row like I would for a sour mash? Is that likely to be the same type of lacto as what was in the vinegar?



BTW, it's cazy that this thread popped up right as my MIL decided it was time to attempt this.
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How much vinegar? It might not ferment but vinegar makes pickles, too. It's just they you use one or the other usually. Hot vinegar is fine.
 
ericbw said:
Those are going to be hot!!! The pickle juice seems to enhance heat and other flavors.
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oooh, that's great news! I just put a whole habanero (halved) and tons of my loco peppers into my new batch. I hope it's hot enough. If not, I have plenty of flaked dried pepper to use- but I wanted something that would BURN going in. (and out, I assume. but I don't want to talk about that).
 
I just ran in to check the latest batch.

It's hot.

It's great.

I probably wouldn't serve this to those who don't expect a fireball that lasts, but I love it.
 
I think the pickling really draws out garlic, too. So use less if you are not as fond of it!
 
I pickled some sliced ginger recently, but made the newbie mistake of using iodized salt, mainly because it's what I had on hand at the time. The ferment went ok, but the result just tasted dirty. I had heard you should use non-iodized before, but it didn't really register I guess. Lesson learned.

I also put up some of the ginger as a fridge/vinegar pickle at the same time, so at least those turned out fine.

I'll have to try again with the fermented pickles. Not going to let one failure dissuade me.
 
Here's my try at fermented pickles. Used a 5% brine, garlic, dill, pepper flakes, pickle spice. I'm addicted to these now. Nice sour and dill flavor. 2 half gallon and a quart jar. Gonna make some fried pickles this weekend.

View attachment 1443698669135.jpg
 
richbrew99 said:
Here's my try at fermented pickles. Used a 5% brine, garlic, dill, pepper flakes, pickle spice. I'm addicted to these now. Nice sour and dill flavor. 2 half gallon and a quart jar. Gonna make some fried pickles this weekend.
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Resonator said:
View attachment 299753
Dill pickles start

View attachment 299754
Fried pickles.

Roll in buttermilk
Roll in cornmeal
Roll back in buttermilk
Roll again in cornmeal

Fry in Wessen vegetable oil (or peanut oil) at medium-high heat for about 2 minutes or until golden brown

You can add a pinch of salt to the cornmeal as well if your pickles aren't super salty
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In case you want a bomb recipe
 
Wanted to give this a try. Small batch- 2 pint size jars.

IMG_0560 (2) - Copy.JPG
 
brew703 said:
This is 7 days in. Is this how the pickles are supposed to look?
View attachment 308680
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The skin color looks right, but the middles look dark and possibly soggy. When you cut cucumbers into pieces the insides turn soggy easier -- especially if they're not in the fridge from the beginning.
From my experience, if you're making lacto fermented pickles, you want to leave them whole until they finish fermenting. Then cut them into whatever shape/size you want and add some of the brine you used to ferment them in.

Taste one, if it's the right sourness and tastes the way you want, you can stick them in the fridge.
 
So I decided it was time to make some more pickles. Went to whole foods to grab some fresh dill and garlic, so I could use up the cucumbers I got a couple of days ago.

Here's my process and recipe. (Winged the recipe, since I forgot to write it down last time I made them.)

What you'll need:
- 1 gallon glass container or pickle crock
- 1 gallon ziplock bag or crock weights
- 1 gallon distilled water.
- Diamond kosher salt (6 Tbsp)
- 9 to 12 large pickling cucumbers, or enough to fill your jar so the cucumbers can't float up.
- Fresh dill (2-4 sprigs)
- Fresh garlic (2-4 cloves)
- Whole black peppercorns (1 tsp)
- Mustard seeds (1 tsp)
- Dill seeds (1 tsp)
- Whole coriander (1/2 tsp)
- Ancho chilies (2-6 peppers)
- All-Spice berries (2-4 whole berries)
- Bay leaves (1-3 leaves)

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1444516645.217562.jpg

I like to start off by mixing my brine. I use (3) quart size mason jars, and fill them each with 3 cups of distilled water, and 2 Tbsp of diamond kosher salt. Put a lid on them and shake to dissolve the salt.

Next you want to wash and scrub any dirt off of your cucumbers with a bristle brush.
** This should be a scrubbing brush that is only used on vegetables **

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1444516671.928679.jpg

Next remove the last 1/8" or so, from both ends of the cucumbers.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1444516692.791294.jpg

After the ends are removed I add the spices to the jar. For the garlic I cut off the dark ends, and then flatten them under a chef knife.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1444516742.595955.jpg

What I added to the jar:
1/2 tsp coriander
1 tsp Whole black peppercorns
1 tsp Mustard seeds
1 tsp Dill seeds
2 Bay leaves (crushed)
3 Dill sprigs
3 All-spice berries
4 Cloves of crushed garlic
4 Ancho chiles (3 w/ seeds, 1 w/o seeds)

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1444516783.466501.jpg

Side note: If you're going to use ancho chilies with seeds, try to use unbroken peppers and twist the stem off at the very top. I found that this helps to prevent hot spots on parts of pickles where they were on the seeds, and it gives a more even spiciness to the pickles.

Put the jar on its side and start stacking your pickles into the jar.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1444516837.560462.jpg

Once it's full, -- but not completely packed -- add about a cup or so of brine. Twist the jar back and forth in your hands fast enough, so that the spices get mixed up and don't all end up under the ends of the pickles. ( I usually do this again after they've been sitting for a few days and have shrunken.)

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1444516879.898662.jpg


Fill the jar with the last one or two cucumbers, so they are snug against one another and don't move. This may take some rearranging, or possibly cutting of a cucumber.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1444516903.275814.jpg

Add more brine until it covers the tops of the cucumbers. Then place your ziplock bag in the jar on top of the brine. Fill the ziplock bag with the remaining brine to weigh down the cucumbers, and to make sure if the bag leaks it won't water down the brine.

** If you have brine left over, save it for when you want to move them in the fridge. I usually take the bag out and throw it away, along with the brine inside. Then use the left over brine in the jars or make more. I feel like sometimes the bag can add a plastic flavor to the brine inside, so I'd rather just make fresh brine than impart any off flavors. **

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1444516984.635793.jpg

Place in a cool dark place. I usually use a styrofoam cooler. It keeps temps pretty constant, and shields it from light or bugs.

View attachment ImageUploadedByHome Brew1444517000.924830.jpg

Then just let it sit and do its thing. Wild lactobacillus in the environment should take hold in the brine after a couple of days. As long as the cucumbers are under the brine, and your salt levels are high enough -- you should have no problems.

After about a week or so, the brine should have turned cloudy and the cucumber's skin should have changed colors from a saturated green, to a more muted pickle green.

How sour your pickles are, will determine on how long you let them sit on the counter before moving them into the fridge.

I'll post back in a week or so with the results.
 
brew703 said:
Not really worried about the softness. More concerned about the other parts. Next time will leave whole.
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What other parts? The taste? The appearance of brine or skin?

I would be concerned if a pickle is soft. That's always meant something has gone wrong in my experience. Usually it's caused by something in the water (why I use distilled), or not enough salt in the brine.

I usually test mine by trying to snap one in half, and if everything went well, it should break with a audible snap.
 
Resonator said:
What other parts? The taste? The appearance of brine or skin?

I would be concerned if a pickle is soft. That's always meant something has gone wrong in my experience. Usually it's caused by something in the water (why I use distilled), or not enough salt in the brine.

I usually test mine by trying to snap one in half, and if everything went well, it should break with a audible snap.
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i'll give that a try.
 
brew703 said:
Like **** LOL. Dumped them. They were soft. Will try again, only this time will leave whole and just cut the ends and will use spring water.
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Haha, I've definitely been there. It took me a bit to get my pickles down. I was cutting them into spears at first and they would almost always end up horrible, other than when I added way more salt than normal one time.

I've found that leaving them whole for fermentation and appropriate salt, is the most effective way to get a good crunchy deli style kosher pickle that I really like.

The best way to make sure they are crunchy is to use salt equal to 2-5% of the total cucumbers weight. If you make a brine according to someone else's recipe where they give you measurement amounts to water, it won't always work out.

It all depends on your container volume, how much cucumbers fill that volume, and how much brine you can add. When you measure by cucumber weight you ensure that's there's enough salt no matter how much brine you can add to the rest of the jar.

If you still can't get them to turn crispy after adjusting the salt and leaving them whole, consider adding tannin containing leaves like grape leaves. Bay leaves do help with crunch slightly, but also impart flavor -- so only use a couple per gallon. Or you could always add calcium chloride if you want to go the unnatural route.
 
Resonator said:
Haha, I've definitely been there. It took me a bit to get my pickles down. I was cutting them into spears at first and they would almost always end up horrible, other than when I added way more salt than normal one time.

I've found that leaving them whole for fermentation and appropriate salt, is the most effective way to get a good crunchy deli style kosher pickle that I really like.

The best way to make sure they are crunchy is to use salt equal to 2-5% of the total cucumbers weight. If you make a brine according to someone else's recipe where they give you measurement amounts to water, it won't always work out.

It all depends on your container volume, how much cucumbers fill that volume, and how much brine you can add. When you measure by cucumber weight you ensure that's there's enough salt no matter how much brine you can add to the rest of the jar.

If you still can't get them to turn crispy after adjusting the salt and leaving them whole, consider adding tannin containing leaves like grape leaves. Bay leaves do help with crunch slightly, but also impart flavor -- so only use a couple per gallon. Or you could always add calcium chloride if you want to go the unnatural route.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the info. I may try again next weekend. It's like anything else.. learn from mistakes.
As for the recipe, I did use one on the net and the salt content was xx per quart of water. I tasted the brine and it was salty so figured all was good. Next time ill follow your recommendation.

I also used a bay leave as that's what i had. I dont have access to grape leaves but could add calcium chloride as i do have that.
 
brew703 said:
Thanks for the info. I may try again next weekend. It's like anything else.. learn from mistakes.

As for the recipe, I did use one on the net and the salt content was xx per quart of water. I tasted the brine and it was salty so figured all was good. Next time ill follow your recommendation.



I also used a bay leave as that's what i had. I dont have access to grape leaves but could add calcium chloride as i do have that.
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For sure, it's definitely about experimenting and learning from mistakes.

If you live near any farmers market that's a great place to look for grape leaves

Good luck on the next batch!
 

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