I think I'm done with WYeast

There is a vendor on here ( I can't remember who) that offers old smack packs from time to time. It is amazing how fast they get sold and the pint of experienced brewers that buy it up. It goes to show how a good starter works with even old smack packs.

Sourdough Pils

BWN said:

There is a vendor on here ( I can't remember who) that offers old smack packs from time to time. It is amazing how fast they get sold and the pint of experienced brewers that buy it up. It goes to show how a good starter works with even old smack packs.

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I don't know if it's the same vendor you're thinking of, but Farmhouse Brewing Supply sells expired Wyeast smack packs for $3.50.

Making good starters doesn't have to be expensive.
1L flask $11
2L flask $16.50
Stirplate $40
Stirbar $4
Bells beer store

I got their 2L and stirbars. I made my own stirplate since I already had most parts I needed.

I have made 6 batches, and in all batches of beer I have used Wyeast, without a problem. I make sure I smack it the morning I plan on brewing in the afternoon. If I don't have all day, I'll smack it and place it on top of the refrigerator for a couple of hours.

MarcusKillion said:

I used wyeast that I bought online . It was summer time and it got here about three days later but sat on the front porch about 100 degrees for hours . Was swelled up . I put it in the fridge and used it a few days later . It swelled up again which I had not expected it to do . It worked okay but the stuff is so slow to ferment I would consider it to be crap .
No I for some reason bought a pack from local store . I had it for a few months in fridge . I made a batch of dark ale yesterday . Smacked the pack and let it sit about 8 hours and it barley swelled at all . Pitched it anyway and today , no fermentation , no activity at all . I have some in a bottle to observe.
Just in case anyone uses plastic buckets . The lids do not seal up after a couple uses sometimes . Use good duct tape to seal it off and sometimes you will find that fermentation is going on .
Well off to my local brew pub at noon to ask them if they will sell me some yeast . If not I am going to go to the wine vinyard and get some wine yeast and use that.
No more Wyeast for me . Never had a problem with dry and it works in 4 days not a week or more .

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Wow.:smack: Take the advice of others before me. Spend some time cruising this forum, especially the beginner section, and pick up a book about yeast (or at least brewing). This situation is not Wyeast's fault.

I had the same thing happen to me. Make sure you shake it really well as the yeast sticks down on the bottom. Are you just cutting a corner off or the whole top ?

Meh. I had a pack that wouldn't smack. It just wouldn't bust. And it's not like I don't know how to smack stuff. Another pack that was less than a year old and stank like rotten ass. It was refrigerated in the shop and my ride home isn't far. I forget what all the deal was on the others. They just didn't do well. I've followed wyeast's directions.

I know this product has a lot of fans and for a lot of good reasons. It just ain't my thing.

Fermentis, ftw.

Faub007 said:

I have always had great luck with wyeast. I get them from northern brewer and have them shipped all the way to Texas.

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that is where I got mine from that sat in the heat on my porch last summer . It did work how ever even after being swelled all up and put in the fridge for a few days . It just takes too long to start working . I am guessing that the liquid yeast is no more than water and yeast so why pay 8 bucks for 2 bucks worth of yeast ? On top of that it takes from 3 hours to a day before you know if the stuff is even alive after smacking it .

Make sure that you buy your yeast from a large store, if you don't you end up with yeast that has been sitting on the shelf for sometime.

MarcusKillion said:

that is where I got mine from that sat in the heat on my porch last summer . It did work how ever even after being swelled all up and put in the fridge for a few days . It just takes too long to start working . I am guessing that the liquid yeast is no more than water and yeast so why pay 8 bucks for 2 bucks worth of yeast ? On top of that it takes from 3 hours to a day before you know if the stuff is even alive after smacking it .

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Dude. We get it. Don't use Wyeast (or the excellent advice listed in this thread). You are impatient; use what you are happy with. Jeeze, next people may suggest washing your yeast, which would save you a ton of money... Oh never mind, you probably don't have time for that either...

Besides, it saves more liquid yeast for individuals that will use it properly.

grem135 said:

Making good starters doesn't have to be expensive.
1L flask $11
2L flask $16.50
Stirplate $40
Stirbar $4
Bells beer store

I got their 2L and stirbars. I made my own stirplate since I already had most parts I needed.

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Heck, you only need that stuff to make GREAT starters. I make some pretty good ones in a growler with a piece of foil over the top.

Bells sure does have some great prices though, I think they've got a sale for HBT through the end of the year.

MarcusKillion said:

that is where I got mine from that sat in the heat on my porch last summer . It did work how ever even after being swelled all up and put in the fridge for a few days . It just takes too long to start working . I am guessing that the liquid yeast is no more than water and yeast so why pay 8 bucks for 2 bucks worth of yeast ? On top of that it takes from 3 hours to a day before you know if the stuff is even alive after smacking it .

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Easy answer - use dried yeast. Problem solved.

TNGabe said:

Heck, you only need that stuff to make GREAT starters. I make some pretty good ones in a growler with a piece of foil over the top.

Bells sure does have some great prices though, I think they've got a sale for HBT through the end of the year.

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Not just great starters but smaller ones that finish faster.

Golddiggie said:

Not just great starters but smaller ones that finish faster.

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Sure, but if I put one on the stir plate, wouldn't the other 4 get jealous?

MarcusKillion said:

that is where I got mine from that sat in the heat on my porch last summer . It did work how ever even after being swelled all up and put in the fridge for a few days . It just takes too long to start working . I am guessing that the liquid yeast is no more than water and yeast so why pay 8 bucks for 2 bucks worth of yeast ? On top of that it takes from 3 hours to a day before you know if the stuff is even alive after smacking it .

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Your obviously not ready for liquid yeast. You mishandle it and then ***** about the results. Liquid yeasts have been proven not to have the right amount of cells to pitch directly unless its a low og.

Liquid yeast has more far more options than dry does. It sounds like you will be better off using dry yeast and make better beer that way since you arnt pitching the correct amount.

If your not willing to make a starter then stick with dry yeast. Complain as much as you want, but its not wyeasts fault.

I use White labs (for liquid) sterilize and refill your vial from your starter and you can keep 1 vial going for literally years.

I use wyeast 1272 as my house strain. I usually have krausen within 8 hours when using an appropriate starter. I find this to be a very acceptable and predictable amount of time.

TNGabe said:

Easy answer - use dried yeast. Problem solved.

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exactly . I never met a dry yeast I did not like . But just to be fair I might try a Wyeast one more time although I have no intentions of making a yeast starter for a 5 gallon batch . Not needed . Try it with a good beer just to see how it compares to a nottingham or US 05 .
`

MarcusKillion said:

exactly . I never met a dry yeast I did not like . But just to be fair I might try a Wyeast one more time although I have no intentions of making a yeast starter for a 5 gallon batch . Not needed . Try it with a good beer just to see how it compares to a nottingham or US 05 .
`

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Just make sure it's a LOW OG batch (under 1.050), and you go the full 72 hours before thinking it's not doing anything.

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but only using dry yeasts limits the types of beers you can make. Yes, theres a belgian strain and a german strain and an english strain but do we really want to limit ourselves to one belgian strain? One german? I don't. But to each his own.

mikeysab said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but only using dry yeasts limits the types of beers you can make. Yes, theres a belgian strain and a german strain and an english strain but do we really want to limit ourselves to one belgian strain? One german? I don't. But to each his own.

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I like the fact that I can use any of several different English ale yeast strains, if I so choose. Instead of just one (maybe two) that you get in dry form. While I do tend to use only two, maybe three, ale yeasts for the majority of my batches, knowing I have several more to pick from means I can get the one that will do best in my recipe. Not just roll the dice and hope that the one strain I can pick from does it justice.

BTW, you don't see commercial breweries, or brew pubs, using dry yeast (at least not any I've seen or visited). They either use the yeast from a prior batch (reserved, checked, and then used) or get a fresh liquid supply ready and pitch it. If you think they don't use starters, well... Most decent sized breweries have a lab inside to check on yeast and such. Brew pubs, not so much. One brew pub I visited had a small fridge loaded up with Wyeast packets (activator packs). :rockin:

MarcusKillion said:

exactly . I never met a dry yeast I did not like . But just to be fair I might try a Wyeast one more time although I have no intentions of making a yeast starter for a 5 gallon batch . Not needed . Try it with a good beer just to see how it compares to a nottingham or US 05 .
`

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Like I said, your better off using dry yeast. Have you thought why the dry yeast starts much quicker than the wyeast you use? Might it be because you don't make starters so you are effectively under pitching yeast? Dry yeast has more cells in it, of course it will start faster that a pack of yeast that has half the cells...

MotorcycleMatt said:

Like I said, your better off using dry yeast. Have you thought why the dry yeast starts much quicker than the wyeast you use? Might it be because you don't make starters so you are effectively under pitching yeast? Dry yeast has more cells in it, of course it will start faster that a pack of yeast that has half the cells...

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That's assuming the liquid yeast pack is super-fresh. As the pack ages, the amount of viable cells decreases. After a few months (normally about 5-6) the cell count is about 10% of what it was on production day. Doesn't mean you should just toss it out, just means you need to offset the loss by making starters. Once you do, you can easily use rather old liquid yeast with solid results. Just pitch it in as is and you could be looking at a greatly extended lag phase while the cells replicate. How well they do also depends on how much O2 you infused into the wort. Cutting corners on both aspects will give you less than desired results.

Oh well, I guess that's part of the reason why almost anyone can brew beer. But not many can brew great beer.

You ever been the first to post on a contraversial thread and then delete it? I did on this one. Call it insecurity or what ever.

Didn't read this thread. Just remember the first post. Wyeast inferior? No man, no! If it didn't work for you it was your fault, not Wyeast.

I wanted to post too but figured I would let the pros have at it since I made my first starter on my last batch. BTW at bottling time it was by far the BEST beer i have brewed!!

mikeysab said:

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but only using dry yeasts limits the types of beers you can make. Yes, theres a belgian strain and a german strain and an english strain but do we really want to limit ourselves to one belgian strain? One german? I don't. But to each his own.

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I am not sure how much flavor yeast actually puts in beer but I do think I can not tell the difference much . I either like a beer or not and most beers I do not like much . For me a good nut brown will do best and a few dark ales but I think us 05 or such is as good as anything else in them .
some day i would like to brew up my nut brown and use two different yeasts and see if they taste different .

With ales it makes a lot of difference. Each yeast strain will have its own flavors or cleanness. You can get everything from black pepper to plum in different Belgian strains. Think of dry as a standard rainbow and liquid as the full spectrum of light.

Oh boy.. someone definitely needs to do some research on yeast. Put together a wheat beer recipe and use 05 in half and use any saison yeast in the other half. If you can't taste the difference, your taste buds are shot. Hey, if you wanna use 05 in everything, thats your perogative. But saying you cant taste the difference between yeasts is an asinine statement. Once you learn about yeast a little, your horizons will be broadened quite a bit.

MarcusKillion said:

I am not sure how much flavor yeast actually puts in beer but I do think I can not tell the difference much . I either like a beer or not and most beers I do not like much . For me a good nut brown will do best and a few dark ales but I think us 05 or such is as good as anything else in them .
some day i would like to brew up my nut brown and use two different yeasts and see if they taste different .

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That's so sad... There are some that will ferment out clean/neutral in flavor, but still accentuate the malt, or hop, flavors. There are others that will add different flavors depending on the temperature you ferment them at. I found I didn't like the stone-fruit esters from Wyeast 1469, which is why I don't intend to use it again.

IMO, a really good brewer (on any scale) will use a yeast that at least assists the brew flavors. Blindly barreling through with just one strain for all (without being selective of it) just doesn't make sense to me. Also, judging all strains off of one is just not right.

Take the exact same recipe, and ferment it with different yeast strains and you'll get several different versions of the same brew. Ferment at different temperatures and you'll have an even wider range of flavors from the yeast.

Reading this thread made me angry, then sad, then made me feel like I lost brain cells. Holy f'n crap.

I think the end is knowing your supplier and trusting them. And why you may just want to make a starter regardless.

Rhoobarb said:

Reading this thread made me angry, then sad, then made me feel like I lost brain cells. Holy f'n crap.

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Sounds like part of the 7 steps of acceptance.

MotorcycleMatt said:

Like I said, your better off using dry yeast. Have you thought why the dry yeast starts much quicker than the wyeast you use? Might it be because you don't make starters so you are effectively under pitching yeast? Dry yeast has more cells in it, of course it will start faster that a pack of yeast that has half the cells...

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dry yeast has 20 billion cells per gram or 230 billion cells minus I think 4 % per month loss , could be 10% . Wyeast has 100 billion so I suppose that could be the reason . How ever Wyeast does not recommend starters for 5 gallon batches . i.e. The Activator™ package contains a minimum of 100 billion cells in a yeast slurry.. The Activator™ is designed to directly inoculate 5 gallons of standard strength ale wort (1.034-1.060 SG) with professional pitching rates. For lagers, we recommend inoculating the wort at warm temperatures (68-70°F/ 20-21°C), waiting for signs of fermentation, and then adjusting to the desired temperature. Alternatively, for pitching into cold conditions (34-58°F/ 1-14°C) or higher gravity wort, we recommend increasing this pitching rate. This can be achieved by pitching additional Activator™ packages or by making a starter culture. Please see the Pitch Rate section for additional information.

Wyeast recommends 113,562,600,000 cells for a 5 gallon batch of ale . No starter needed .

Now personally I do like to use 2 packs of dry yeast and that makes for some quick fermentation.

Ignorance can be bliss. I made a Wit 2 days ago. While the grains were mashing I remembered that I never smackied the packy of Wyeast. It was still in the fridge. Well, and I realize that I open myself up for jokes here, I took it out, smackafied the pack and thought I would help it out a bit since it was pretty cold. I put it on top of the clothes dryer to warm it up a bit. Half an hour later I thought I was done. The dryer top had gotten hotter than I thought. That smack pack was HOT. I cursed myself but left it on the countertop. Two hours later that pack had doubled in size. I pitched it and by morning she was bubbling away.
As Napoleon Dynamite would say, "Lucky"

I need to read more on starters. I thought you didn't need one if you had a nicely puffed smack pack. I don't make high OG brews and wonder if its necessary if I always have a good ferment going within 12 hours.

Dan said:

You ever been the first to post on a contraversial thread and then delete it? I did on this one. Call it insecurity or what ever.

Didn't read this thread. Just remember the first post. Wyeast inferior? No man, no! If it didn't work for you it was your fault, not Wyeast.

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unless the yeast just went bad and then doo doo happens I suppose .
so all in all people seem to like it and I must have just had a bad day or two .
How ever I still find that besides the many different strains liquid has to offer , dry yeast is far superior in getting the job done . Kind of like starting my car up . I like it to start right when I turn the key all the time with no messing around with the battery as I want the battery to just stay charged . Some others prefer to keep theirs on a float charger so it stays charged up . I will just use a battery that stays charged by it's self .

My apologies to Wyeast and you Wyeast lovers .

MarcusKillion said:

unless the yeast just went bad and then doo doo happens I suppose .
so all in all people seem to like it and I must have just had a bad day or two .
How ever I still find that besides the many different strains liquid has to offer , dry yeast is far superior in getting the job done . Kind of like starting my car up . I like it to start right when I turn the key all the time with no messing around with the battery as I want the battery to just stay charged . Some others prefer to keep theirs on a float charger so it stays charged up . I will just use a battery that stays charged by it's self .

My apologies to Wyeast and you Wyeast lovers .

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I'd love to see you make a Belgian with your fancy dried yeast. We're not "Wyeast lovers". We're people who can follow simple directions.

Don't talk smack about Wyeast (pun intended), they sell a good product. Problems arise from mishandling not from Wyeast selling bunk yeast. Always get the freshest pack possible (they're dated) and use it quickly. Get them local if posible and if you have to buy online use a trusted HBS. When ordering online it's also a good idea to call ahead and ask what the dates are on the packs before you place the order. This way you know what you're getting before hand. Have it shipped with a cold pack and use the fastest shipping method (within reason). I usually go for 2nd or 3rd day air (can't remember which). Ends up around $25 for 1 smack pack, which is a bit salty, but I know I'm getting viable yeast and I put it to good use.

MarcusKillion said:

dry yeast has 20 billion cells per gram or 230 billion cells minus I think 4 % per month loss , could be 10% . Wyeast has 100 billion so I suppose that could be the reason . How ever Wyeast does not recommend starters for 5 gallon batches . i.e. The Activator™ package contains a minimum of 100 billion cells in a yeast slurry.. The Activator™ is designed to directly inoculate 5 gallons of standard strength ale wort (1.034-1.060 SG) with professional pitching rates. For lagers, we recommend inoculating the wort at warm temperatures (68-70°F/ 20-21°C), waiting for signs of fermentation, and then adjusting to the desired temperature. Alternatively, for pitching into cold conditions (34-58°F/ 1-14°C) or higher gravity wort, we recommend increasing this pitching rate. This can be achieved by pitching additional Activator™ packages or by making a starter culture. Please see the Pitch Rate section for additional information.

Wyeast recommends 113,562,600,000 cells for a 5 gallon batch of ale . No starter needed .

Now personally I do like to use 2 packs of dry yeast and that makes for some quick fermentation.

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Seems like you've selected to forget that ALL of the numbers from Wyeast are before the packages leave the labs, when they are not even a day old. Use yeastcalc.com and enter production dates further and further away from when you intend to brew (dates before the brew day). The size of the starter increases quickly. You can drop it back down with different aeration methods as well as making stepped starters.

Noobs typically just smack the pack and pitch, since they've not learned about proper yeast cell count pitching. Once you get educated on yeast wrangling, things change rather significantly. You then realize why a batch you just smacked and dumped came out the way it did.

BTW, the nutrient pouch in the activator pack is to PROOF the yeast. It's NOT a substitute for a starter. It simply tells you that there's live yeast in that pack. Depending on how the seller shipped it, or stored it once they got it, you could get dead yeast. Without smacking it (and letting it proof) you'll never know. Well, unless you make a STARTER for it. Then, even if the live cell count is low, you can step it up for the batch you'll be brewing.

Also, we're not "Wyeast lovers" we're yeast lovers. We love what using a yeast from a wider selection can do for a brew. Like listening to a well tuned symphony Orchestra as compared to only being able to hear a single drum from it. Sure, you're listening to the same music, be WE get the entire thing while you get a tiny fraction.

LuckyBeagleBrewing said:

With ales it makes a lot of difference. Each yeast strain will have its own flavors or cleanness. You can get everything from black pepper to plum in different Belgian strains. Think of dry as a standard rainbow and liquid as the full spectrum of light.

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So I hear but myself I just want a normal beer and not a beer full of pepper , bananas , pumpkin , fruit or anything else that does not belong in a beer .
but that is just me and some like that stuff . My cousin loves my holiday ale but I think it tastes like a desert of some kind for x mas dinner .
I may just switch over to Pabst Blue Ribbon light . a nice flavorless beer tinted water product . MMMM Good . I don't think it even uses yeast . or grains or ....