Toasted Oat Pale - two versions, which do you like?

I want to brew a toasted oat pale ale. I came up with two versions (below), an english/scottish themed version and an american version. Any comments, suggestions or criticisms would be helpful. For example, I have no first hand experience with special B or Honey Malt, but from what I've read, they might add something here. what say you?

English version:

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.5 gal
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 62.5 %
2.00 lb Oats, Toasted (1.0 SRM) Grain 25.0 %
0.50 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 6.3 %
0.25 lb Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3.1 %
0.25 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 3.1 %
0.75 oz Williamette [5.50%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 17.3 IBU
0.50 oz Fuggles [4.50%] (25 min) Hops 5.9 IBU
1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) Yeast-Ale

Est Original Gravity: 1.045 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.014 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 3.9 %
Bitterness: 23.2 IBU


American version (My thought behind this was to try and bridge my favorite aspects of malty/oaty beers with my favorite aspects of classic american pales/IPA's - do you think it would work?):

Type: All Grain

Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.5
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 57.1 %
2.00 lb Oats, Toasted (5.0 SRM) Grain 22.9 %
1.00 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 11.4 %
0.50 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 5.7 %
0.25 lb Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 2.9 %
0.75 oz Centennial [10.00%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 30.4 IBU
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (30 min) Hops 6.0 IBU
0.25 oz Amarillo Gold [8.50%] (5 min) Hops 1.6 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [5.50%] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1 Pkgs American Ale (Wyeast Labs #1056) Yeast-Ale

Beer Profile

Est Original Gravity: 1.049 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.012
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.8 %
Bitterness: 38.0 IBU

Lastly, Do toasted oats contribute to the color more than flaked oats?

thanks for looking.

I would imagine that toasting the oats will make them darker. How much? It would depend how much you toast them.

I would make the English Version, but would personally prefer it a little more bitter. (Maybe 35 IBUs) Maybe some finishing hops as well, although not 100% neccessary.

Another thought...

To truly get the effect of the toasted oats, I would omit the victory. I imagine that you will get nuttiness from the oats.

big supper said:

Another thought...

To truly get the effect of the toasted oats, I would omit the victory. I imagine that you will get nuttiness from the oats.

Click to expand...

That's a thought. I actually added the victory specifically to back up the nuttiness of the oats; an idea from Jamil Z who makes this recommendation in his oatmeal stout. but maybe the oats will shine more without?

BTW, the oats have already been toasted, and I'd give them a medium-light toast rating and they smell delicious (last time I toasted oats for beer they got pretty dark in spots and I got almost chocolate notes from them)

EDIT: I forgot to mention that I chose special B specifically because Randy Mosher describes it as having a bit of a raisin flavor, so I'd be getting some oatmeal raisin notes in there....

That English recipe sounds great... might need to try it but a little hoppier as mentioned earlier...

what if I just added .5 oz to 1 oz of Kent Goldings for a little more hop flavor? I just want to balance with the hops here, while bringing through the toasted oat. that is my primary objective, anyway....secondary being, I suppose, to make a beer that just tastes good!

hmmm...where's revvy's IBU/Malt beer balance chart.....?

does anybody think the "american" version would work? I know it's not by the book, but I have been curious about the english malt/american hops pairing for a while. if you were going to do something along those lines, how would you bridge the two for a pleasing beer?

OK, I got my starter up and running and I'm brewing this tomorrow. I upped the Special B and Honey malt an oz each and added some finishing hops for a total of 28 IBUs (I just brewed a best-bitter with about 35 IBUs using these same hops and I know I don't want quite that much hop presence here).

As I was weighing out grains for crush this morning I noted the taste and smell of the honey and special B and I think they are going to add a really nice raisin-like flavor to counter the oats....I think it's going to be pretty good. here's the final recipe:

Type: All Grain
Batch Size: 5.00 gal
Boil Size: 6.5 gal
Boil Time: 60 min

Ingredients

Amount Item Type % or IBU
5.00 lb Pale Malt, Maris Otter (3.0 SRM) Grain 61.6 %
2.00 lb Oats, Toasted (1.0 SRM) Grain 24.6 %
0.50 lb Victory Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 6.2 %
0.31 lb Honey Malt (25.0 SRM) Grain 3.8 %
0.31 lb Special B Malt (180.0 SRM) Grain 3.8 %
0.80 oz Williamette [5.50%] (60 min) (First Wort Hop) Hops 18.3 IBU
0.75 oz Fuggles [4.50%] (20 min) Hops 7.7 IBU
0.50 oz Goldings, East Kent [5.00%] (5 min) Hops 1.9 IBU
1 Pkgs English Ale (White Labs #WLP002) Yeast-Ale


Est Original Gravity: 1.045 SG
Est Final Gravity: 1.015 SG
Estimated Alcohol by Vol: 4.0 %
Bitterness: 27.9 IBU
Est Color: 11.1 SRM

So, this recipe turned out really good. Maybe I'll post in the recipe's forum.

This has a really nice malty sweetness to it, sort of like a southern english brown but without the dark fruits. The "honey" in the honey malt comes through just a touch more than I wanted but overall the beer is incredibly smooth, delicious and easy drinking. My only issue with the honey malt is that it overrides to subtle nuttiness of the toasted oats a bit too much.
I took it to my first homebrew club meeting and got positive replies from those who tried it (a clean fermentation, smooth, tasty, and I'd like to have a few of these on hand when I'm watching the game on sunday.....were some of the comments)

Next time I make this, I plan to bump the base malt by a # and to mash at 153-154 instead of 156, just to encourage a slightly drier, stiffer ale. I also might drop the honey malt back an ounce or so, but if I increase the base it may not be necessary. Also, I plan to take the advice of those above and increase IBU's to 35 next time (I like it fine where it is, but I think this brew could handle a bit more bite than it has). With these changes it should turn out like a sweeter, smoother, nuttier ESB. For this initial version, I'd say it's more of a pale oat mild ale.

As for the oats, they give the beer it's smooth, rich character (at 1.043) and the hint of nutty oatmeal cookie is awesome. Make sure you secondary unless you don't mind a bit of cloudiness (oats make the same amount of protein sediment as wheat), but if you like oats and english ales, then give this a shot and tell me what you think.

It's this good this young? Wow, might have to give it one of my buckets!

The recipe looks very interesting...

BrewBrain said:

It's this good this young? Wow, might have to give it one of my buckets!

The recipe looks very interesting...

Click to expand...

Think of it like a best bitter. It doesn't take a lot of aging at that low of a gravity. I left in in the primary for 15 days and then bottled it up. It has been bottled for about 11 days now. I had set one six pack into a makeshift "rapid-conditioning chamber" at about 75 degrees.....I brought them to the meeting the night before last after checking that they were basically carbed up.

If you do make this, let me know, and my only suggestion would be that you use a secondary or crash cool it before racking to your bottling bucket, as the sediment in the bottles has been higher than average for this beer due to the oats. Otherwise, I think it's really a delicious beer, especially if you like english type ales.

Love the toasted oats idea. Might have to give this one a shot some day. Thanks for posting.