Bottom Port? Or Front Port?

So, this is the first day in about 4 months where i haven't been working 15 or 16 hours. So, instead of doing something constructive, like sleeping, I'm dreaming about brewing equipment upgrades.

I'm building an electric HERMS system, but now an interesting thought came up while trolling through various forums and I wanted to get opinions on it...

I'm contemplating putting bottom dump valves on my mash tun and boil kettle? And hell, for HLT too.

My thought is that if there's no flame on the bottom of the pot then what's the harm in putting a dump valve near the edge of the pot on the bottom? In the BK, you could still whirlpool to gather the sediment in the center and drain damn near all the wort without having to tip the pot. In the MT, same kind of thing...under the false bottom and recirculating to the top.

As for the HLT, that'd just be for symmetry if I got the bottom dumps on the other two pots. I like things to be symmetric.

So...tell my why I shouldn't do this...

Thanks!

Moby

That's the way the hlt and mt are at the pub where I brew. On the bk it is benifical to leave the sediment so a side drain with a baffle works better to promote settling and not disturb the trub pile.

Mine drain through the bottom and it makes cleanup a snap!

pickles said:

Mine drain through the bottom and it makes cleanup a snap!

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You have a bottom drain in your BK? Any issue with added sediment in your wort?

I have a modified false bottom that allows the trub cone to form on top of it during the whirlpool. Without the false bottom it almost immediately plugs my pump. I have very minimal trub in the fermenter.

pickles said:

I have a modified false bottom that allows the trub cone to form on top of it during the whirlpool. Without the false bottom it almost immediately plugs my pump. I have very minimal trub in the fermenter.

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Any pictures you'd like to share? I don't want to make a mistake with everything being so "inexpensive" as it is! ;-)

Look at my signature line there's a link there. Basically my keggles are inverted and I connect a 2" tri-clamp the the original sanke "neck". It seals great with an o-ring or a modified tri-clamp gasket. My BK is different now that what's in that thread I referenced, but it's now the same as the HLT and MT pictured.

pickles said:

Look at my signature line there's a link there. Basically my keggles are inverted and I connect a 2" tri-clamp the the original sanke "neck". It seals great with an o-ring or a modified tri-clamp gasket. My BK is different now that what's in that thread I referenced, but it's now the same as the HLT and MT pictured.

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Will check it out...thanks!

i have a bottom drain MLT and love it. Will be making the HTL bottom drain too.

Ok...I'm 100% on the HLT and MT...I see that Stout Tanks has just released a bottom drain MT too...albeit a little different than I'm planning.

Thanks every one for the help...I'll be sure to post up some pics as I go along...I've still got a metric crap ton of reading to do (and yes, that is a valid technical approximation).

Moby

pickles said:

I have a modified false bottom that allows the trub cone to form on top of it during the whirlpool. Without the false bottom it almost immediately plugs my pump. I have very minimal trub in the fermenter.

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pickles - can you give some more details on that false bottom? Thanks!

bikesnbeers said:

pickles - can you give some more details on that false bottom? Thanks!

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+1 Curious how the false bottom works. I'm assuming it just has a solid platform over the center?

I'm also wondering if you can empty your grains from the bottom after the tri clamp and false bottom are removed?

I don't have any doubts that you can blast the spent grain out but I think you'd be using up a lot more cleaning water then necessary. I'd still probably scoop out most of it.

how about using a broom stick?

I don't want to derail Moby's topic but basically I designed a false bottom the looked like an upside down pie pan and had Jaybird make it (he current sells them). It is 12" in diameter but has 1-1/2" sides or walls. This adds about 50% more filtration than a 12" false bottom but still is smaller in diameter than the ID of the kettle. When I whirlpool the trub sits on top and wort is able to drain around the outside. I mostly use leaf hops but occasionally use a combination of pellets and leaf. Saturday I brewed a 12 gallon batch that had 18 oz of hops, 6 of which where pellets and didn't have any issues with flow to the fermenter. When I was cleaning I did find that my plate chiller had a bunch of pellet gunk in it but it never compromised flow. So not to gum up this thread, if you wanna see pics or learn more about it let's take the discussion over the the thread linked in my signature.

Btw, I have to scoop out all the grain before removing the FB from the mash tun or even the smallest amount of grain plugs up my 1/2" rigid piping. It really isnt a big deal though.

Moby said:

I'm contemplating putting bottom dump valves on my mash tun and boil kettle...

In the BK, you could still whirlpool to gather the sediment in the center...

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pickles - thanks for the input. I don't think that we are derailing the topic. Moby, let me know if I am wrong here. The reason I think your input is related to this topic is because I too am contemplating going with a bottom drain BK but I haven't figured out a good way to not clog the pump. It sounds like you have. I checked out your thread, but I didn't see any mention of a bottom draining BK. Maybe I missed it.

When you first mentioned your modified false bottom in the BK, I was picturing a solid top that the cone gathered on top of, but it sounds like yours is perforated. I mostly use pellet hops.

As far as the grain goes, have you tried removing the tri-clamp before removing the grain? That way the grain would go through the +/- 2" opening and not the 1/2".

12 gallon batch that had 18 oz of hops... that's my kind of beer!

I'll dig up some pics of the false bottom, and you are correct it is completely perforated. As far as I've know (and it's been played with a ton on here) there is no good way to filter pellet hops besides a grain bag. I almost always use leaf as I find it easier to filter and I'm not concerned with wort loss from absorption (this time I was using up some hops a friend gave me). Your correct that when those pics were taken I had a side draining kettle now Its exactly like the other two. I don't undo the tri-clamp because it's a pain in the butt to access. I'm sure the grain would go down the drain that way I'm just too lazy to take it apart.

No, this is not derailing the thread at all...I appreciate all the input.

Here's another thought to battle with the pellet trub.

What about a 4" TC long ferrule, welded into the bottom. Think of it as an alternative to a cone bottom like the ones on Stout Tanks boil kettle.

If you had a 4" long ferrule in the middle of the tank and then a 1-1/2" ferrule near the edge of the tank to drain from, would you think that after a whirlpool, you'd end up with more of the pellet remnants in the 4" TC and less in the fermenter?

Not saying it would work, but I think it's an interesting idea!

pickles said:

As far as I've know (and it's been played with a ton on here) there is no good way to filter pellet hops besides a grain bag. ...
I don't undo the tri-clamp because it's a pain in the butt to access. I'm sure the grain would go down the drain that way I'm just too lazy to take it apart.

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If I wanted to use a big plastic bag in the brew day, I would go with BIAB I like those stainless mesh hop spiders that I've been seeing on here. I'm seriously wondering about a 12" solid "dinner plate looking thing" near the the middle bottom drain that would collect the hop cone on top, and wort would escape around the sides.

Can you explain why it's hard to take the tri clamp apart? Any recommendations for making it easier?

Edit: I see the hard piping. Got it.

Moby - It sounds like you are explaining a side port. The bottom/top of the sanke is cone shaped. The hops collect there in the whirlpool, then rack off the side. Is that what you are saying? I'm not sure why you would need a 4" when you already have a 2" TC.

Hope I'm not bugging with all the questions. This is something that I have been considering for a while, and I'm finally moving on the build. Thanks!

bikesnbeers said:

The bottom/top of the sanke is cone shaped. The hops collect there in the whirlpool, then rack off the side. Is that what you are saying? I'm not sure why you would need a 4" when you already have a 2" TC.

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I'm not talking about using sankes. I'm (personally) talking about kettles.

Here's specifically what I'm referring to:

Moby

Nobody has thoughts on the 4" ferrule idea? Anyone? Bueller?

On the 4" ferrule idea you're basically talking similar to the yeast collectors you see on some of the plastic conicals people build, right?

That's a pretty neat idea. I guess the 'risk' would be if you had enough trub to fill up more than the 4". I don't have any experience with it either way. I'm just starting my upgrade build and I was thinking going with a bottom drain for HLT & MLT for sure but I wasn't decided yet for the BK.

I figured you could go with just a normal FB or maybe a metal ring with BIAB cloth sewed around it to catch the sediment.

If having an extra bit of dead space as a bottom tube worked that'd be less fuss though. You'd just slap an end cap on it and drain it all out into a bucket or something at the end of the brew day, yeah?

jdowling said:

If having an extra bit of dead space as a bottom tube worked that'd be less fuss though. You'd just slap an end cap on it and drain it all out into a bucket or something at the end of the brew day, yeah?

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That's my plan. Not sure if it will work, but unless I hear someone say 'that's the dumbest idea ever and here's why....', I might give it a shot.

Moby

jdowling said:

You'd just slap an end cap on it and drain it all out into a bucket or something at the end of the brew day, yeah?

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X2 on this. I think I'll end up going this route too. I don't think I'll need the extension and valve if I'll be doing single batches. Slide a bucket under it, take the cap off and dump once cooled.

Holy Crap!!!!

I just got my pots from UPS. They're HUGE! I guess I never really thought about how big a 20 Gallon pot would be...but holy crap.




I'm gonna need a bigger boat!

Just built this stand with some inspiration from this thread. Underneath the keg, I can fit a bucket or my ice chest with wheels.

Just make it a tippy dump type set up when your done running off you disconnect your hoses bring a trash can over tip it and 90% of the grain is gone, drag the hose over (that you have out to for the cooler anyway) spray the rest of the grain out it's cleaned out.