Food grade confusion

Since I started brewing, I've taken to building a lot of my own equipment -- both as a cost saving measure and because it gives me something to do while I'm waiting for various batches to ferment/condition.

But I've never been very certain about the designation "food grade," specifically when it comes to vinyl tubing.

Is all vinyl food safe? Is any? What about PVC ... a polyvinyl, apparently, but that really doesn't tell me much. I've tried to look up this stuff, but I'm completely overwhelmed when various articles start talking about ethenyl, −CH=CH2, etc.

Would I be able to go to Home Depot and purchase clear vinyl tubing for siphoning? Is there some code to look for that would indicate it's safe for use with food?

Oh, and so I don't start a new thread, is all thermoplastic tubing food-grade?

Sorry if I've duplicated any threads... I did some searches, but I couldn't find anything specific.

- moj

As far as I know, all the vinyl tubing at HD or Lowes is fine, that's what I use anyway.

But you want to avoid PVC, it can leach some terrible toxins into your beer. Instead you should use CPVC, made for potable water supply lines and good to use up to around 180 I believe, should be good for most applications.

Thanks for your response. I didn't want to take a chance if saving a buck could lead to any potential health risks. I won't list the stupid things I've almost done before reading the advice on this board!

Some of the tubing at home depost will cause off flavors. Look for something that says safe for drinking water or approved for potable water supply lines.

PVC is OK but only for cold liquid applications. PVC can leach lead into your beer or wort if it's hot. CPVC is good for hot liquid but not boiling liquid. For liqiuid at or near boiling you need TPR (thermoplastic Rubber) tubing.

From what I've read and seen all TPR tubing is food safe and is good to way past the boiling point of 212*F. If memory serves, it's good to at least 250*F.

The normal vinyl tubing at HD is going to be fine for doing transfers of beer etc since it does not set in them for long enough to pick up any plastic off flavors. Don't use for hot wort

For hot wort I use Silicone tubing which does not give any off flavor, but really can't hold any significant amount of pressure. Plus side for this stuff is it doesn't have a memory (doesn't keep curling up on you) and you can throw it in the oven at 350 or more degrees to sterilize it when you want.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=usplastic&category%5Fname=7511&product%5Fid=8415
Has the best price I've found at 88 cents a foot for 3/8 inner diameter, that I found will easily stretch over my 1/2" barbed connections.

For my kegorator I use LLDPE (Linear Low Density Polyethelyne ) Which is really hard to work with but leaves me no noticible off-flavors in my beer even after it sits in it for a couple weeks, and can hold considerable pressure (I've got some I use to carb soda at room temp, around 55PSI). The problem is that it is really hard to get the 3/16" stuff onto my 1/4" connections, I employ a propane torch to heat it up and force it on, then use some worm drive hose clamps to keep it on tightly.
Search http://www.mcmaster.com/ for 5181K42 It is only 15 cents a foot so a great deal too

The flexible "vinyl" tubing is PVC, polyvinyl chloride, one well known brand name is TYGON. It's plasticized with either phthalates or polymeric polyester plasticizers. The phthalate plasticizers are controversial because some consider them toxic, some don't. The real issue is do the phthalates leach out of your vinyl tube when you use it to rack beer or wort from here to there. My advice is don't worry about leaching when racking at or near room temperature, regardless of which plasticizer is used in the tubing.

BUT, I would only use tubing marked as okay for food or potable water, whether it is phthalate or polyester plasticized. And I would only use this tubing at or near room temp. Phthalate plasticizer migration will be increased as the temp of the liquid in the tubing increases.

There is high temp food grade vinyl tubing available, Nothern Brewer sells it, and that's what I have used until recently for transferring hot wort from my BK to my CFC. I suspect this is plasticized with the polymeric plasticizers that don't migrate out of the tube under any conditions, hot or cold.

I recently bought some silicone tubing and am using that now for all the reasons mentioned above, plus I can hold the tube when transferring boiling water from HLT to other places. Try that with vinyl.

conpewter said:

The normal vinyl tubing at HD is going to be fine for doing transfers of beer etc since it does not set in them for long enough to pick up any plastic off flavors. Don't use for hot wort

For hot wort I use Silicone tubing which does not give any off flavor, but really can't hold any significant amount of pressure. Plus side for this stuff is it doesn't have a memory (doesn't keep curling up on you) and you can throw it in the oven at 350 or more degrees to sterilize it when you want.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...=usplastic&category_name=7511&product_id=8415
Has the best price I've found at 88 cents a foot for 3/8 inner diameter, that I found will easily stretch over my 1/2" barbed connections.

For my kegorator I use LLDPE (Linear Low Density Polyethelyne ) Which is really hard to work with but leaves me no noticible off-flavors in my beer even after it sits in it for a couple weeks, and can hold considerable pressure (I've got some I use to carb soda at room temp, around 55PSI). The problem is that it is really hard to get the 3/16" stuff onto my 1/4" connections, I employ a propane torch to heat it up and force it on, then use some worm drive hose clamps to keep it on tightly.
Search http://www.mcmaster.com/ for 5181K42 It is only 15 cents a foot so a great deal too

Click to expand...

Good info, that was the sight i was going to post. and that's where i get my tubing from..

If it's not High temp grade tubing.. Then I wont use it.

conpewter said:

The normal vinyl tubing at HD is going to be fine for doing transfers of beer etc since it does not set in them for long enough to pick up any plastic off flavors. Don't use for hot wort

For hot wort I use Silicone tubing which does not give any off flavor, but really can't hold any significant amount of pressure. Plus side for this stuff is it doesn't have a memory (doesn't keep curling up on you) and you can throw it in the oven at 350 or more degrees to sterilize it when you want.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/product.asp?catalog%5Fname=usplastic&category%5Fname=7511&product%5Fid=8415
Has the best price I've found at 88 cents a foot for 3/8 inner diameter, that I found will easily stretch over my 1/2" barbed connections.

For my kegorator I use LLDPE (Linear Low Density Polyethelyne ) Which is really hard to work with but leaves me no noticible off-flavors in my beer even after it sits in it for a couple weeks, and can hold considerable pressure (I've got some I use to carb soda at room temp, around 55PSI). The problem is that it is really hard to get the 3/16" stuff onto my 1/4" connections, I employ a propane torch to heat it up and force it on, then use some worm drive hose clamps to keep it on tightly.
Search http://www.mcmaster.com/ for 5181K42 It is only 15 cents a foot so a great deal too

Click to expand...

Do you know if the silicone tubing from usplastics will be alright to use with a pump at hot wort temps. I don't see anything listed as far as vacuum and pressure ratings?

lil' league said:

Do you know if the silicone tubing from usplastics will be alright to use with a pump at hot wort temps. I don't see anything listed as far as vacuum and pressure ratings?

Click to expand...

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...SPlastic&category_name=18317&product_id=12305

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...SPlastic&category_name=18317&product_id=12314

issack said:

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...SPlastic&category_name=18317&product_id=12305

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/pr...SPlastic&category_name=18317&product_id=12314

Click to expand...

$6 per foot?? Thats a little pricey plus still no vacuum or psi rating

Don't really know what you mean. Are you just wanting to use these lines for pumping hot wart to your other pots.? if so, then there really is no pressure or PSI involved. I've never had a problem pumping my wart ever with these lines. All i worry about when i order tubing is the temp rating.

I don't have a pump so I can't comment on how it will stand up to that use. I do know that when I clean it out after pumping wort through it (I use it with a CFC) I attach my hose to it and if I turn the hose on full blast it will start to form a bubble in the line (like bulge it out) so I don't turn it on all the way and it is OK. I know others have used this tubing with pumps, I just have not had personal experience with it.

Food grade hose is used extensively in the carnival, or any portable concession stand. This is a required item that all health inspectors look for. The hose is non-toxic, no carcinogens, but most importantly is no taste or order. All food grade hose will be printed food grade on it, if it's not printed do not buy it. The place I buy my hose from is National Supply http://nationalsupplyonline.com/Food_Grade_Water_Hose.html hope this helps.

midnightflyer said:

Food grade hose is used extensively in the carnival, or any portable concession stand. This is a required item that all health inspectors look for. The hose is non-toxic, no carcinogens, but most importantly is no taste or order. All food grade hose will be printed food grade on it, if it's not printed do not buy it. The place I buy my hose from is National Supply http://nationalsupplyonline.com/Food_Grade_Water_Hose.html hope this helps.

Click to expand...

How flexible is that hose? Can it be coiled up easily in a kegerator/keezer? Will the 3/16th ID hose slip easily over a 1/4 inch barb?

/mark

Sorry, I know it's an old thread, but I just saw this:

abracadabra said:

PVC can leach lead into your beer or wort if it's hot.

Click to expand...

Where does the lead come from? Are you suggesting that PVC, as manufactured, contains lead? Or does the passing of hot-wort through Poly-Vinyl Chloride some how make lead?

I'd buy "leaches toxins", but "lead" sounds a bit magical.


(FWIW, came here looking to learn how to glue vinyl tubing into bigger vinyl tubing to be air/liquid tight and food-safe.)

Gone are the days of alchemists trying to turn lead into gold, or PVC into lead, apparently. You can't turn polymers into lead.

Lead may be present due to certain stabilizers used in some grades of PVC.

PVC is a generic term for polyvinyl chloride, and as such, it does not connote any degree of food safety to the material.

Ah, that's fair. Our [many-houses, shared] water system is largely PVC, but we use all Sched-40 or -80, which IS safe for that use. I guess it hadn't occurred to me that someone might use sewer-grade PVC for beer.

"Hey Bob, whacha makin' there...?"

There was a spate of folks using large bore straight PVC couplers dangled over boiling kettles for hop spiders.
Not sure if they're all still among us

Cheers!