All Grain or the Highway?

About to brew my fourth all grain batch this afternoon (oatmeal stout), so I'm new to the process. It does take a bit more time but the results make it well worth it and I've had good success so far. I was wondering though, do you guys still brew extract recipes at all, either for the sake of time or simply because the extract fits in with what you want to do? Or are you all grain or bust and never want to look down the barrel of an empty extract can ever again? FWIW, I feel to each their own and hope I'm not stirring the pot (wort?)...but I was just curious.

-Jamie

I'm not opposed to doing another extract brew. But, I've been all grain after two extracts and two partial mashes. Never had a need to look back after almost 5 years.

Not averse to doing an extract batch at all, but since I've been buying grain in bulk by the sack, shelling out bank for a few litttle tubs of extract just doesn't appeal to me.

I did happen to brew a small 3 gal. extract batch the other day though...My LHBS gives away the 15 gal. LME barrels, and damn if there wasn't like 4-5 lbs of LME left in the bottom, so I figured what the hell and brewed a small batch of "Barrel Rinse Pale Ale".

4-5 lbs barrel rinse superlight LME
scant 1/2 lb C40 steeped in the coffee maker
scant handful (say an ounce) of pellet hops at 60 min, flame out and at 170degrees....OG approx 1.050
no chill in the kettle and pitched 05 slurry after racking a batch to a keg



Peliminary uncarbed green samples indicate success.

Does this make me a bad person, or would my fellow HBT mates done similar?

Yeah, I'm with Hammy...I did extract batches for almost a year, then switched to all grain brewing. I didn't like the way my beers were coming out doing extract. There was always this twang I couldn't get rid of..Plus I can do more with All grain..Glad I progressed to AG and would never go back.

jamieofthenorth said:

About to brew my fourth all grain batch this afternoon (oatmeal stout), so I'm new to the process. It does take a bit more time but the results make it well worth it and I've had good success so far. I was wondering though, do you guys still brew extract recipes at all, either for the sake of time or simply because the extract fits in with what you want to do? Or are you all grain or bust and never want to look down the barrel of an empty extract can ever again? FWIW, I feel to each their own and hope I'm not stirring the pot (wort?)...but I was just curious.

-Jamie

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Never went back. I did 2 or 3 when I got started about 10 years ago. I don't expect to ever do an extract beer again. I still get a kick out of the mash.

I haven't made an extract batch since I started doing AG. I'm not opposed to it, but since I buy grain by the sack it would actually cost me a LOT more to do an extract batch.

Since I have everything I need conveniently set up, it's no problem to just brew an AG batch when I brew. Mashing takes an hour, and sparging takes about 15 minutes when I batch sparge, so making an AG batch takes about 1.5 hours longer (I have to crush the grain). To save 1.5 hours, I"d have to order some extract and pay shipping.

The last time I bought extract, it was over $12 for three pounds. So I'd have to spend about $30 to have the extract. It wouldn't be worth it, to save 1.5 hours out of a day.

wilserbrewer said:

I did happen to brew a small 3 gal. extract batch the other day though...My LHBS gives away the 15 gal. LME barrels, and damn if there wasn't like 4-5 lbs of LME left in the bottom, so I figured what the hell and brewed a small batch of "Barrel Rinse Pale Ale".

Does this make me a bad person, or would my fellow HBT mates done similar?

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As long as you bring the LHBS a bottle!

Bulls Beers said:

Yeah, I'm with Hammy...I did extract batches for almost a year, then switched to all grain brewing. I didn't like the way my beers were coming out doing extract. There was always this twang I couldn't get rid of..Plus I can do more with All grain..Glad I progressed to AG and would never go back.

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I'm getting a bit of that twang too. I was thinking it was from leaving the beer on the lees in primary for way too long. Switching from LME in recipes to DME (and I go with the extra light stuff) is supposed to minimize the metallic taste of malt extract.

Extract brewing's greatest appeal to me (with 7 extract brews and a MIAB behind me now after a year) is that I can do it maybe five hours so there's less time investment in it. I spent maybe 12 hours on my MIAB because the water/grain ratio was off since my Bayou Classic kettle is taller and thinner (less water loss) then other kettles I see. I'm thinking 1 qt/pound is actually a better ratio for me - easier to top up as I need.

All grain might give greater (ultimate) control over the end product but extract lets me practice on the basics and gives me experience with recipe formulation without having to worry about having an off batch due to poor mashing. A few ABVs have been coming out low with extract and it was worse for the MIAB (though that was a modest Irish Red to begin with).

Mashing isn't the process variable I want to be focusing on right now - more experience with the styles and flavors and smells of malt/hops in a controlled fashion. And a lot of reading.

I built the required equipment for all-grain a few months back but right now I like the experience of extract brewing. Talk to me again in a year and I'll probably be doing entirely MIAB or the full nine yards.

But I do hear that the extra time spent on all-grain is worth it to people. I'm just too slow right now for it to be time efficient for me. At the end of the day, are you content with extract brewing or will you cultivate that interest in all-grain?

I've been doing extract since I started back up. I have 8 extract brews under my belt. Since getting a Spike brewkettle I have 3 full boils done. I am completely happy with what I have been producing. I may go all grain. I am flirting with doing a partial mash on my next brew. We'll see how that goes.

I've never done an extract batch (not even as a beginner) and I never plan to. AG isn't really that hard, and the results are as tasty as anything else I could find on tap around here. I don't plan on ever using extract except for starters!

I don't feel like I've mastered all-grain brewing (maybe I never will) so I feel like any extract brews I do is not furthering my goal of being a better all-grain brewer.

You've had soup from scratch,and you've had soup from a can. Nuf said.

I started All Grain and have never used extract, however I'm not opposed to it. If it was cheap enough or free I'd give it a go.

I've pretty much stuck with AG since I switched over but I have a phenomenal extract Weizenbock that I've only just recently tried to replicate via AG but my efficiency came out low, which I've since corrected... but the beer is still bottle conditioning so it's not ready yet to tell. I have a feeling it will take a while to reproduce it perfectly and I've wondered if it's even worth the extended experiment since it will take some tweaking and is so awesome already as it is as extract. So I dunno, but I know that outside of that one killer brew everything else I do is AG and I have migrated all my other recipes over to make even better beers than their extract counterparts.


Rev.

This thread got me thinking about AG again. Came across a video on youtube done by Sam Fonda. He gets it done without the fancy equipment. I am considering it again.

Never did an extract batch, even my first batch (which was fermented in a two-gallon bucket in a dirty closet) was all-grain. Looking back on how little I knew at the time I have to say that BIAB is accessible to pretty much everyone, even on an electric stovetop. I'd recommend starting with all-grain to any beginner.

I just switched to all-grain and only have 2 AG brews under my belt. I haven't tasted either of them yet, so I can't really comment on the difference from my personal brewing experience. There are a couple of kits I've done from Northern Brewer though that I really, really liked. So, I could easily see myself doing those again in the future. Really though, the only reason I would do the extract again though would be a time issue. I have friends that really enjoy the beer I've brewed so far and they can drain a couple of kegs during a long Saturday or Sunday of watching football. So, If I only had 3 hours one weekend, but needed 5 gallons, I could throw one together quick and get it done.

In the end though, if what I've brewed in my first 2 batches turns out good, I would really have to be in a pinch to go back to extract. I enjoy the process of brewing something from grain to drink. And if time isn't an issue, then I see no reason to switch back.

I think that beginners (incl myself) are too intimidated by the AG process. If I had not started brewing overseas, i would have gone to a brew club meeting, met a few people that seemed cool, and invited myself to watch them brew. This is still what I would advise for anyone considering the hobby.

Nothing wrong with extract but I have to say I felt MUCH more pride in my beer when i started following a recipe. I would expect the same jump in pride when I brew my OWN recipe someday.

Arrheinous said:

Extract brewing's greatest appeal to me (with 7 extract brews and a MIAB behind me now after a year) is that I can do it maybe five hours so there's less time investment in it.

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I'm not sure how your brew day goes,but,if I do a single infusion batch sparge 10 gallon,20 pound grain bill basic brew,I get through it in about 4.5 hrs.I mill with a drill driven corona mill while I heat strike water(all electric).Then mash for an hour. Sparge generally goes 30 minutes and boil one hour.Then cooling with basic 20 foot 3/8 copper IC for maybe 1 to 1.5 hrs depending on ground water temp.Then rack to fermenter and I'm done.:rockin:

(PS: I do all grain because I can buy 2 row in a 50# sack and make my own crystal malt in the oven and it's much cheaper than extract.I'm all about cheap!

I started with Mr. Beer 2 yrs ago and switch to extract with steeping grains after a few months then AG BIAB style this past March. Making the move for me it was solely price, I can brew 10 gallons for less than the same 5 gallon extract batch.

As far as time it was the same time 3.5 hours, my Bayou classic burner can heat up the wort so much faster than my gas stove that the time was the same. I just moved to 10 gallon batches and it only added about a half hour.

One nice part of extract is less to worry about, with AG there is more to that could go wrong and so many more variables but its fun and I enjoy the fruits of my labors.

BigSally said:

I'm not sure how your brew day goes,but,if I do a single infusion batch sparge 10 gallon,20 pound grain bill basic brew,I get through it in about 4.5 hrs.I mill with a drill driven corona mill while I heat strike water(all electric).Then mash for an hour. Sparge generally goes 30 minutes and boil one hour.Then cooling with basic 20 foot 3/8 copper IC for maybe 1 to 1.5 hrs depending on ground water temp.Then rack to fermenter and I'm done.:rockin:

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Latest extract batch took me about 5 hours yesterday.

The thing I really want to figure out and understand before I try another AG is mash temperature, mash time, and attenuation.

Setting up an English bragot this Saturday so it's going to have to be AG or a big MIAB - 20+ total pounds of amber and pale malts. Still need to pick up all the herbs to add (long pepper, candied ginger, galingale, and such); might 'hop' with a very conservative amount of wormwood. Need to get an OG of like 1.100.

Mash between 145 and 155 higher for sweet, lower for dry.Generally one hour is enough,but,lower should be longer.If you want to be sure , use iodine to test for conversion.Google it. Don't try multi step infusions until you're confident with single infusions.And always remember,no matter what,you'll make beer.It might not be your target beer,but , it'll be beer.

Arrheinous said:

Extract brewing's greatest appeal to me (with 7 extract brews and a MIAB behind me now after a year) is that I can do it maybe five hours so there's less time investment in it.

But I do hear that the extra time spent on all-grain is worth it to people. I'm just too slow right now for it to be time efficient for me. At the end of the day, are you content with extract brewing or will you cultivate that interest in all-grain?

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Did my fourth AG batch yesterday... as a noob I can tell you that it does get wicked easier once you get your routines down. Brewing yesterday's stout was bing-bang-boom, and despite an extensive clean-up due to some sloppiness on my part, the whole process took five hours from prep to getting the kitchen back in order. There is less stress of the "oh sh--, am I doing this right" variety and it's starting to feel second nature, which is greatly helping with time, at least for me. Practice makes perfect. Best of luck, I highly encourage you to dive in.

Arrheinous said:

Extract brewing's greatest appeal to me (with 7 extract brews and a MIAB behind me now after a year) is that I can do it maybe five hours so there's less time investment in it.

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In all fairness, I've never spent more than 7 hours on an AG batch. I can see if you get your ratios messed up or something it could delay your day, but AG doesn't really take that long once it's dialed in. There's more steps, and more cleanup, but 5-6 hours is about how long my batches take, and really most of that doesn't need me to be there, so the time investment is pretty minimal.

BudzAndSudz said:

In all fairness, I've never spent more than 7 hours on an AG batch. I can see if you get your ratios messed up or something it could delay your day, but AG doesn't really take that long once it's dialed in. There's more steps, and more cleanup, but 5-6 hours is about how long my batches take, and really most of that doesn't need me to be there, so the time investment is pretty minimal.

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A decoction, especially a double or triple can push you over the 7 hour mark. I agree with your assessment when it comes to single infusion mashes. After a few brew days and with good equipment and a good game plan, it usually all goes well.

Mb2658 said:

A decoction, especially a double or triple can push you over the 7 hour mark. I agree with your assessment when it comes to single infusion mashes. After a few brew days and with good equipment and a good game plan, it usually all goes well.

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Agreed. Of course I was talking about standard single infusion for the sake of simplicity, and more complicated mash schedules will increase the brew day. Although, I'm also not concerned with brewing beer taking a long time, because I like to brew, so doing it a little more doesn't bother me either.

I mostly just stick with AG, but sometimes if I'm testing out a recipe or if it's winter I do go with extract.

i do both depening on how much time i have, an extract kit only takes two hours and all grain takes about five hours. extract with steeped grains can make very good beer if you dont have the time for all grain.

I did a few extract kits before all grain and never lookin' back. My first AG session was actually a sit-in with the almighty Yooper. I was immediately hooked!