Easy Way to Make Sour Beers (1 gal wort + dregs)

Rare Barrel has a conditioning Brett strain, but the bugs are in there. RR will work but the wine yeast will have killed the sacc. So it's just wine yeast, bugs and Brett. However the bugs and Brett should easily out compete the wine yeast. The beer from stepping it is a toss up though.

badlee said:

Stepping them up will not hurt,for sure. Plus, that way you get to keep some as is.
I would go for the JK as it has a reputation for having beasty dregs!

RB bottle with wine yeast.

Click to expand...

I think that's my plan now! Step them all up, pitch some, and bank the rest. And I was already thinking about pitching the JK.

ThatVideoKid said:

Rare Barrel has a conditioning Brett strain, but the bugs are in there. RR will work but the wine yeast will have killed the sacc. So it's just wine yeast, bugs and Brett. However the bugs and Brett should easily out compete the wine yeast. The beer from stepping it is a toss up though.

Click to expand...

Excellent info, thanks for that. What did you mean about "the beer from stepping it is a toss up though"?

TravelingLight said:

I think that's my plan now! Step them all up, pitch some, and bank the rest. And I was already thinking about pitching the JK.





Excellent info, thanks for that. What did you mean about "the beer from stepping it is a toss up though"?

Click to expand...

I mean if you wanted to get some beer out of stepping up the RR, it may or may not have some unfavorable characteristics from the wine yeast. After that the Brett and bugs should take over as they perform better in that environment

Also some more info to make sure you favor getting bugs from a starter. As you probably know, Brett and bugs don't crash out like sacc does. So pitch at least some of the liquid from you starter(esp the RR) because the ratio of bugs/Brett to that wine yeast will be higher in the liquid. The settled out stuff will have a higher cell count, but more of it will be wine yeast. I would suggest a two stage starter. Let the first small starter ferment out. Then decant off the liquid into more starter wort. Kind of the opposite of what you would normally do.

FWIW I haven't done this yet, but in theory it's solid. I plan to do this with my consecration when I get an empty carboy.

ThatVideoKid said:

Also some more info to make sure you favor getting bugs from a starter. As you probably know, Brett and bugs don't crash out like sacc does. So pitch at least some of the liquid from you starter(esp the RR) because the ratio of bugs/Brett to that wine yeast will be higher in the liquid. The settled out stuff will have a higher cell count, but more of it will be wine yeast. I would suggest a two stage starter. Let the first small starter ferment out. Then decant off the liquid into more starter wort. Kind of the opposite of what you would normally do.

FWIW I haven't done this yet, but in theory it's solid. I plan to do this with my consecration when I get an empty carboy.

Click to expand...

That is phenomenal info, and no, I did not know that brett and bugs don't crash out like sacc. And I'm glad you told me because I would have been flummoxed had it not crashed out. I think I used that word correctly.

When you say decant the liquid off into new starter wort, you're saying don't pitch the stuff that crashes out, i.e., because that's mostly the wine yeast?

Yeah some of that will be bugs, but that will be your highest concentration of the wine yeast. Going into just 1 gallon you might be fine just pitching a cup or two of just the starter beer, but I think you're better off with a new starter.

Again I don't have experience with this, but the theory is there with everything I've read/everything Jay talks about on the sour hour. Highly recommend binging that podcast on your commutes.

ThatVideoKid said:

Yeah some of that will be bugs, but that will be your highest concentration of the wine yeast. Going into just 1 gallon you might be fine just pitching a cup or two of just the starter beer, but I think you're better off with a new starter.

Again I don't have experience with this, but the theory is there with everything I've read/everything Jay talks about on the sour hour. Highly recommend binging that podcast on your commutes.

Click to expand...

Noted and added to my list! Thanks.

How long are y'all letting these sit before you check/bottle/otherwise? I've got a sexy looking pellicle going on a one gallon saison fermented with 3711, then pitched Jester King dregs (RU55 + Provenance). I'm in no hurry at all. Just didn't know how long I should let it sit in the closet before I touch it.

MY REPORT ON MY FIRST FLANDERS ATTEMPT:

I'm aiming for "easy" with my first attempt at a Flanders Red. I'm using Sparrow's recipe. I boiled it up and pitched and it bubbled and now it's maybe 7 months later. I sampled it and it's tangy.

It's amazing how 'thin' it is. Attenuated might be the term. It's kinda like tangy water. It tastes pretty good though I guess. So I'm happy for now and that's the point, right? I do kinda wish it had more body. I'm not the best at determining taste w/o carbonation. Tho I don't need a lot of fizz to like a beer. This beer is often blended, right? I figure I can do my own blending later. Like, I could just make 'black'n'tans' w it. ...I could add some storebought malty amber when it's time to drink to boost the body. My rule is my tastebuds! It has a lot of nice red/brown color to it, tho.

I haven't done any secondary. It just sits there in the primary fermenter. There is a 1-2" layer of white stuff at the bottom. I don't see a pellicle on top. It's in my basement which has maybe been about 60F all summer.

So now I just added a couple pounds of fresh frozen red raspberries that I've picked the last few weeks from my yard patch. I didn't boil them or even wash. They were clean. Probably they have yard yeast on them. Who knows. We'll see what happens. I just funneled them down the mouth of my carboy. I also added a couple ounces of oak chips that I'd soaked a few days in water then drained off the water. (I've read that I can keep the oak chips but I don't know how I'm going to separate them from the glop. I can try to later on after bottling.) Maybe I'll try to pipette off another pint so I can fit in another couple pounds of berries. Sparrow writes that a pound per gallon is common. But I bet so is just adding "what ya got, as much as you might feel like." So now I'll keep an eye on it and see if it starts bubbling again. And I'll taste now'n'then. My vague idea is that it might taste even niftier in a month. Hopefully all the berries sink over time. Then after fizzing is done awhile I could siphon/strain into a metal pot with some bottling sugar in it then bottle.

I'm not big on waiting. So at each step of this game when I sample it if it tastes good I'll move to the next step. Sure, it might get even better w time but if it seems good then I'll probably act.

To me, sour Belgian beer goes with CYCLOCROSS. And that season is just starting. Also my birthday is Oct 30. So I wouldn't mind starting to drink these in November.

Conversely, if a sample doesn't taste good at any step, I'll let it sit and taste again later to see if anything got better. I might also read more as I go along to see if any possible fix at some point inspires me.

I've seen notes about "bottle bombs" and long-term fermenting creating ever more CO2. And so some don't like to bottle w extra sugar it looks like. But I'm thinking my friends and I will drink this 5 gal batch quick enough to not get in pressure trouble. A 2-wk carbonation plan doesn't sound bad to me. I use heavy pint bottles.

If no fizz happens in a few days w these berries then I will read up a bit more and maybe add some Monk's Cafe dregs and see if that starts anything.

That's my report!

Are you ONLY adding the dregs? This might be a stupid question but that is severely underpitching, so does that still work out OK?

TastyAdventure said:

Are you ONLY adding the dregs? This might be a stupid question but that is severely underpitching, so does that still work out OK?

Click to expand...

I build up the dregs with starter wort by adding a few hundred ml directly to the bottle after pouring the beer. I cover the bottle with aluminum foil and let it sit a few weeks before pitching into the 1 gallon

Spontaneous fermentation is also underpitched, but it works quite well

If I am pitching a decent amount of sacch and a dreg that's been building up for a week at the same time, on brew day, should I aerate it just like normal? Or would the bugs not like that?

Aerate. Yeast will need it and out win bugs for it. If your worried pitch yeast then bug starter 24h later.

crane said:

I build up the dregs with starter wort by adding a few hundred ml directly to the bottle after pouring the beer. I cover the bottle with aluminum foil and let it sit a few weeks before pitching into the 1 gallon

Click to expand...

I did this recently with a bottle of Cantillion Gueuze and the 1gal beer now is straight vinegar. I think next time just a couple days in the bottle before pitching into the 1gal.