kickflip_mj
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Ha yeah I'm trying to kill it all in one build.. I made it so I can upgrade to a 1 barrel system with some minor work. Just weld new fittings on larger tanks.
Home Super Brewery Build: Hybrid Electric/Gas 3BBL Build
- Thread starter marcb
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marcb
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kickflip_mj said:
Well a 1BBL upgrade for you is only a few more gallons comparatively! Can you fit 50g or 55g tanks on there? Your gas system can handle it for sure, 1/2" flow through on the valves might take awhile though and all the larger pumps have greater than 1/2" inlets so you'll have to rethink your plumbing a bit.
kickflip_mj
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Yeah I designed it so that it not only hold the weight but also 50 gal tanks. the only frame mods would just be adding higher points for the tippy. (tipping a 50 gal tank from the bottom is not the best idea.lol
marcb
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New tank getting unpacked, will fit in the walk in great!
marcb
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Man cave getting turned into boy cave for the evening!
marcb
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Added additional regulator manifold to accommodate bright tank and additional tap.
Marc, where'd you get the Bright? Thanks!
marcb
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nvrstck said:
Glacier Tanks, really nice quality and great customer service. There was a snafu with the front manway design so they upgraded me to a 14" top manway. Had to be super patient though as it took about three months from order to delivery and patience (as you can probably tell in the build thread) is not my strong point!
marcb
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Had an awesome brewday yesterday, only used half the brewery and the zopinator didn't quite workout but we had a blast and should have a really solid continuously hopped beer with a mix of CTZ, Amarillo, Simcoe and Willamette hops. Chamuco designed the recipe and should turn out awesome!
marcb
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Nah, that's the mash tun, too busy measuring and adding hops to get a good photo of the boil
Chamuco
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marcb said:
Awwwwww but I did!
[ame]http://youtu.be/vxWG22aiY88[/ame]
Cheers Marc, thanks for a great brewday. Happy New Year to you and the whole family.
Carlscan26
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That's the more beer sparge arm right?
marcb
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Yes sir!
marcb
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Thanks Chad! Same to you all! Made an awesome pot of cioppino and drinking great beers!
marcb
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Cleaning up the bright for our continuous hopped IPA 
Is that the March pump hooked up to conical?
marcb
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The bright tank in this case but yep, that puppy has been pulling it's weight and then some. It is basically my CIP system for the conicals and the solo bright tank. It works great!
marcb
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Pilot batch today
Forgive my ignorance if I missed it somewhere in the thread, but how do you clean out the mash tuns ?
I would have expected tippies on something of this scale. Too small for man ways but very heavy to lift after sparging and too deep for easy manual clean out ????? So how do you clean them ?
Did I understand that you are running 2 x 6KW elements per boil kettle ? How long does it take to go from sparge temps (170ish) to boil ?
What drove you to put each kettle on its own rolling base ? Do you rearrange them while brewing ?
Great build ! Lots of good ideas here.
I would have expected tippies on something of this scale. Too small for man ways but very heavy to lift after sparging and too deep for easy manual clean out ????? So how do you clean them ?
Did I understand that you are running 2 x 6KW elements per boil kettle ? How long does it take to go from sparge temps (170ish) to boil ?
What drove you to put each kettle on its own rolling base ? Do you rearrange them while brewing ?
Great build ! Lots of good ideas here.
raleighwood
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This is most bada$$ setup ive ever seen. I will live vicariously through your home brewery.
marcb
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About a year and a half ago I was able to go brew on a stout/brewmation setup at a local micro brewery. When we were done brewing the owner started mucking out the mash tun by hand (no man way on his 2BBL rig). I offered to help and long story short it wasn't that bad, you lean the tun towards you and with a big scoop muck it out into buckets (our chickens love the spent grain!). It doesn't take that long and there are always at least two of us working on brew days in the garage. On most brew days the grain bill per mash tun is around 120lbs total for a 40g batch and our final yield is usually between 30-35g.
There are two 5500W elements per kettle, total of 11KW - each kettle essentially has it's own 50A circuit (split into 25A per element). It probably takes 20-30 minutes to go from mash out to boil although I've never timed it. It never seems to take too long and the rise is constant - next time I will time it just out of curiosity.
For the stands I wanted maximum flexibility to reconfigure as I was essentially building twin breweries, When I initially started my garage was a mess but ultimately SWMBO told me to do it right and that launched the garage remodel into a full fledge mini-production brewery. The real beauty of this is that if (when) I get a real production site going this is still an ideal pilot rig and I can take half of the system with a new control panel into the production site and still have my pilot rig at home! The entire footprint of the setup is basically 2ft deep by about 16ft long (including fermenters and separate half barrel BiaB setup)
I've had a ton of fun building this and brewing on it is a blast. Not very many things I would do differently on this build. I love that at the end of the day for what people plunk down on a half barrel rig from Morebeer I've managed to put together a two+ barrel pilot that mirrors the process of larger systems. I have learned lots more about production process and what goes on in a real brewery along the way and am really enjoying it.
Thanks for the reply.
How high are the tops of your kettles and how do you find the height ? Are the bases hard to move when the vessels are full ?
I'm a little foggy on how you are heating your mash tun. Would you mind explaining that ? You are operating the on demand hot water heater in recirc mode in conjunction with one or more heat exchangers ?
Do you do step mashes ? If so, how is the step time ?
Do you circulate the mash all the while its mashing ? Did I read that BCS controls mash temp by controlling the pump speed ? How does on get variable speed from the pumps ? Do they respond to variable voltage input ?
Do you notice any carmelization from the elements when boiling heavy wort ?
You have a ton of triclamp fittings. Where is the best place to buy them ?
FYI, I have an on demand hot water heater too. I'm going to capture its output in a vessel (HLT) prior to mash in/sparge so that I can treat my water for hardness and pH prior to using it. Its a shame to have to capture it, but I see no other way to treat the water.
The other issue my ODHWH has is that I can't throttle it down far enough for the low demand during a sparge and the temp regulation isn't good during start/stop operation. Thus capturing is a necessity almost any way you look at it, for me, anyway.
Thanks !
How high are the tops of your kettles and how do you find the height ? Are the bases hard to move when the vessels are full ?
I'm a little foggy on how you are heating your mash tun. Would you mind explaining that ? You are operating the on demand hot water heater in recirc mode in conjunction with one or more heat exchangers ?
Do you do step mashes ? If so, how is the step time ?
Do you circulate the mash all the while its mashing ? Did I read that BCS controls mash temp by controlling the pump speed ? How does on get variable speed from the pumps ? Do they respond to variable voltage input ?
Do you notice any carmelization from the elements when boiling heavy wort ?
You have a ton of triclamp fittings. Where is the best place to buy them ?
FYI, I have an on demand hot water heater too. I'm going to capture its output in a vessel (HLT) prior to mash in/sparge so that I can treat my water for hardness and pH prior to using it. Its a shame to have to capture it, but I see no other way to treat the water.
The other issue my ODHWH has is that I can't throttle it down far enough for the low demand during a sparge and the temp regulation isn't good during start/stop operation. Thus capturing is a necessity almost any way you look at it, for me, anyway.
Thanks !
An awesome build no doubt! I too like the modular design. Doing mine the same way.
marcb
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Is there any advantage going with on demand and capturing it vs just adding a large HLT with elements and heating it? I was planning on fabricating my HLT to be large enough to handle multiple brews at the same time. Then I came across this thread with on demand. I figured the on demand had to heat the water more efficiently.
marcb
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For me, space was a concern. Heating a larger volume of water up from ground temp is less efficient than the on demand approach. If you've correctly sized the tankless and you are building a 2bbl or larger setup I'm pretty sure there's a substantial cost savings. I love it and always have up to 180 degree water on demand for cleaning, soaking parts etc.
ScubaSteve
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Man...never saw this thread. Just thought you were a guy really interested in hop screens! LOL!
You made a good point earlier on....a lot of people move into a space prematurely...this way you have the equipment already and you know how to use it. Of course, I'm sure you have some debt to pay off, but at least you don't have a landlord! Later, you will be much wiser about choosing a space for your business....understanding codes, etc. seems to be a major factor in successful brewing mgmt.
You made a good point earlier on....a lot of people move into a space prematurely...this way you have the equipment already and you know how to use it. Of course, I'm sure you have some debt to pay off, but at least you don't have a landlord! Later, you will be much wiser about choosing a space for your business....understanding codes, etc. seems to be a major factor in successful brewing mgmt.
marcb
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Lol, hop screens are a passion of mine ; )
This is actually my fourth brew system and with each one I have bought or built a base and then enhanced them. Eventually I want to upgrade (in some cases after one brew day!) then I sell and start over. When the build bug bites me I get obsessed and have to move quickly, for this setup I sold my b3 setup (20g digital flat stand) and a matching H/C conical for most of the cost of this equipment. I did go overboard with the fermenters, bright tank and glycol setup but hey.... I did mention the obsessive part, right? It's not like I went and bought a seam welder or anything! For the garage remodel I had friends that helped out a lot and found a few contractors that were willing to work for beer (a different form of debt is born!)
As it turns out we may have a space coming together soon, stay tuned!!!
Most ODHWHs are more than 80% efficient. Versus a burner and kettle at about 20% efficient. An electric burner in a HLT is 100% efficient, but electricity is slow compared to an ODHWH and you'd also need another 20 to 40A electrical feed to run elements in another vessel... so on demand wins in my books, even if its just for filling an HLT that will then be heated with something else.
ScubaSteve
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I totally understand the "bug"...I've built several systems myself (of course not to this level of complexity/$$$) and know exactly what you mean by wanting to updgrade after one brew. Something doesn't work the way you imagined, and *pop* in comes another idea that you just HAVE to see through to fruition.
You mention a seam welder...ironically, the brewing bug got me really into learning other skills such as welding and machining...and those are all disciplines in their own right. I got bitten by the "Old Iron" bug when I lived around Chicago and started buying old machine tools and fixing them up....I'm on my 6th lathe (South Bend 13") and 2nd milling machine (Van Norman 12)....have MIG/TIG/Stick welders, plasma cutter, and just got an industrial spot welder. All I "need" is a slip roll and possibly a finger brake and I can make anything I want for my brewery. There's nothing cooler than doing your own R&D....:rockin:
I guess you can say I've come full circle!
marcb
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Electric element in HLT is not 100% efficient. Sure the element converts electricity to heat at 100%, but the tun loses plenty of heat in the process, unless you insulate the **** out of it. I would imagine not any better than 80%.
ScubaSteve
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Nah...having 3 kids keeps me from doing coast to coast travel....
I think that is obvious to everyone.
marcb
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I've got 4 boys, my job used to keep me on the road a lot but I have been home more in the past year. I also tend to do crazy short business trips just to limit time away from the family....
marcb
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So it's official, we've got an industrial space and are getting ready to do this for real! Half of this system is going over to a production facility for piloting while we get our license going and we'll be ordering a small scale production brewery to be delivered before the end of the year!
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That is awesome! What system did you decide on?
marcb
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Still in the process of selecting a vendor but for the system itself we are going with a direct fired 7BBL compact brewhouse, 2 7BBL FV + Brights, 1 15BBL FV to start off with.
