Spark Ignition for Brutus

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korndog

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I have received a few PM's asking for some detail on how I built my spark system. While I am certainly no expert and have never done this before, it worked out great and I think anyone can do it. I will attempt to explain the process herein.

Parts list:
2 ea. Combination gas valve for direct spark ignition. Mine are Honeywell VR8204's scrapped by a friend. I don't know all of the details to advise you on other models. If you are using scrapped valves, you will need the brass compression fittings shown in the photo below, as well as 1/4" aluminum pilot tubing. New valves come with LP conversion kit (part #393691), but you will need to buy one (5-6 bucks) if using old valve for NG. The instructions come with the kit and it's very easy to convert.

IMG_01931.jpg


Below you can see the four 18 gauge wires coming from the ignition module to the valve. The terminals are labeled so it's very easy to wire. The fifth wire is a ground that is wired to the burner. The tubing is inserted through the compression fitting until seated, and then tightened. The tubing is bent and cut to fit the pilot igniter.sensor.

IMG_01941.jpg


Again you see the same type of compression fitting used on the valve. You will need a to buy these if using used parts. The tubing is installed the same way, but not before changing the small orifice located inside to one appropriate for the gas you are using. New units usually come with both a NG and LP orifice. The ground wire is the one coming from the valve. If you are using the same jet burners, you can attach the units by using a 1/8" NPT plug (thanks Kladue) drilled and threaded with a #6 tap into the pilot boss. Then use an angle bracket to attach pilot assembly. That's how I did it, but I am sure there are other options.

IMG_01951.jpg


Below you will see the ignition module of which you will need two. The wiring is self explanatory. You simply attach the quick connects the same way as the valve. The red and green wires on the right are going to the panel and subsequently to the controller. The spark wire is on the far right and goes to the igniter/sensor at the burner. There are distance limitations for that wire. I used spark plug wires.
IMG_0191.jpg


Continued.
 
You will need a 24V 40VA transformer as a power supply for the system. Mine is wired to a terminal block which goes to the Love controllers. The "hot" lead goes to the #10 common terminal and the switch leg goes to the #11 NO terminal on the Love.

IMG_0192.jpg


That's about it. I hope more people will give this setup a shot. If you brew outdoors, it's pretty cool not to worry about wind gusts. There are guys on this forum that can offer more advice on this. I hope I didn't leave anything out. You can see a short video of it working in the Brutus thread.
 
Attention Kladue or other experts.

My flame on my burner kettle which does not have a valve is perfect with no lazy flame issues. The one for my HLT burner still gives me problems. I cannot seem to get a clean flame even though the burner is at the same height. I tried playing with the Honeywell regulator but am not getting any appreciable difference other than some sputtering. The gas run to the boil kettle is two feet longer than to the HLT, but not sure if that's an issue.

Thanks
KD
 
I have received a few PM's asking for some detail on how I built my spark system. While I am certainly no expert and have never done this before, it worked out great and I think anyone can do it. I will attempt to explain the process herein.

Parts list:
2 ea. Combination gas valve for direct spark ignition. Mine are Honeywell VR8204's scrapped by a friend. I don't know all of the details to advise you on other models. If you are using scrapped valves, you will need the brass compression fittings shown in the photo below, as well as 1/4" aluminum pilot tubing. New valves come with LP conversion kit (part #393691), but you will need to buy one (5-6 bucks) if using old valve for NG. The instructions come with the kit and it's very easy to convert.

IMG_01931.jpg


Below you can see the four 18 gauge wires coming from the ignition module to the valve. The terminals are labeled so it's very easy to wire. The fifth wire is a ground that is wired to the burner. The tubing is inserted through the compression fitting until seated, and then tightened. The tubing is bent and cut to fit the pilot igniter.sensor.

IMG_01941.jpg


Again you see the same type of compression fitting used on the valve. You will need a to buy these if using used parts. The tubing is installed the same way, but not before changing the small orifice located inside to one appropriate for the gas you are using. New units usually come with both a NG and LP orifice. The ground wire is the one coming from the valve. If you are using the same jet burners, you can attach the units by using a 1/8" NPT plug (thanks Kladue) drilled and threaded with a #6 tap into the pilot boss. Then use an angle bracket to attach pilot assembly. That's how I did it, but I am sure there are other options.

IMG_01951.jpg


Below you will see the ignition module of which you will need two. The wiring is self explanatory. You simply attach the quick connects the same way as the valve. The red and green wires on the right are going to the panel and subsequently to the controller. The spark wire is on the far right and goes to the igniter/sensor at the burner. There are distance limitations for that wire. I used spark plug wires.
IMG_0191.jpg


Continued.

what is the model number of the ignition module? the spark wire goes right over the top of it...... these are the gas valves i found I think they are pretty close to the same that you used http://cgi.ebay.com/Honeywell-Dual-...ryZ53296QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 
Sweeeeet. I found a three wire barbecue ignition module at walmart the other day. It uses a few AA's, and you just mount the piezoelectric ceramic element to the burner. I bet it's not as strong of a spark as that beast, though.
 
Sweeeeet. I found a three wire barbecue ignition module at walmart the other day. It uses a few AA's, and you just mount the piezoelectric ceramic element to the burner. I bet it's not as strong of a spark as that beast, though.

Awesome Steve. Let us know when you hook it up. I would like to see the pictures.
 
did you use an ignitor for natural gas or a propane specific one?? all the ignitor/sensor's i am seeing say nat gas only?
thanks
 
did you use an ignitor for natural gas or a propane specific one?? all the ignitor/sensor's i am seeing say nat gas only?
thanks

You will need to get a conversion kit for propane. It comes with an orifice for the pilot and a regulator spring and screw for the valve.
 
You will need to get a conversion kit for propane. It comes with an orifice for the pilot and a regulator spring and screw for the valve.

the conversion kit comes with the orifice for the pilot? I bought the valves new so i am assuming it has the kit in it to convert it to LP, but from everything i was reading the #393691 kit only comes with the regulator spring, screw and cap. Thats whay I was thinking I need to do something still for the pilot burner/sensor ass'y. I was looking at this sensor but it says NG only so I am assuming I need to just get a new orifice for LP but haven't found anything for certian on that or if there is a specific pilot that I can purchase that will work for LP. HONEYWELL Q345A1321 I.P. PILOT BURNER FOR NATURAL GAS - eBay (item 110136423336 end time Aug-30-08 10:25:50 PDT)

that looks similar to the one you are using but i may be way off base and need a different item completly.
 
the conversion kit comes with the orifice for the pilot? I bought the valves new so i am assuming it has the kit in it to convert it to LP, but from everything i was reading the #393691 kit only comes with the regulator spring, screw and cap. Thats whay I was thinking I need to do something still for the pilot burner/sensor ass'y. I was looking at this sensor but it says NG only so I am assuming I need to just get a new orifice for LP but haven't found anything for certian on that or if there is a specific pilot that I can purchase that will work for LP. HONEYWELL Q345A1321 I.P. PILOT BURNER FOR NATURAL GAS - eBay (item 110136423336 end time Aug-30-08 10:25:50 PDT)

that looks similar to the one you are using but i may be way off base and need a different item completly.

You are correct. The orifice is a seperate item. q345 pilot burner takes this orifice.

Product
 
well i feel mildly retarted now, I searched everywhere i could think of except for the manufactures website.................sometimes the most obvious solution is the one i don't see..........thanks again for all your help. That should get me all the parts i need...... now if i can just wire and plumb everything up without blowing myself up i'll be in good shape. I already have the love controllers. Just gotta scrounge up an enclosure for all the goodies now!
 
well i feel mildly retarted now, I searched everywhere i could think of except for the manufactures website.................sometimes the most obvious solution is the one i don't see..........thanks again for all your help. That should get me all the parts i need...... now if i can just wire and plumb everything up without blowing myself up i'll be in good shape. I already have the love controllers. Just gotta scrounge up an enclosure for all the goodies now!

What kind of burners are you using?
 
good question i was going to order the ones 23 jet burner from top food service....... but i have been seeing alot of mixed reviews....... what are your thoughts? is that the ones you went with? are you happy with them now that you put thread sealer on them? this is the one......JET BURNER, CASTIRON, 9" L.P. (CHINA) : Restaurant Equipment and Supplies - Restaurant equipment, Restaurant Supplies, Foodservice Supplies
the prices vary so much tho i'm not sure if the ones that cost twice as much are twice the quality or not. I would be happy to hear your thoughts on what burner to go with. I was thinking hurricane burners from northern brewer when i first decided to build a system, then I saw the jet burners that lonnie used and decided to go with something similar. I like the price of the 23 jet burner but I have seen a few people unappy with the performance. Do you think I need to go smaller? The smaller 10 jet burner is twice the cost of the 23 jet burner on top food service which didn't make a lot of sense to me. I also wonder if one like this JET BURNER, CASTIRON, W/COVER,10" L.P. : Restaurant Equipment and Supplies - Restaurant equipment, Restaurant Supplies, Foodservice Supplies or the 9" one with the cover would help protect it from the wind??
 
good question i was going to order the ones 23 jet burner from top food service....... but i have been seeing alot of mixed reviews....... what are your thoughts? is that the ones you went with? are you happy with them now that you put thread sealer on them? this is the one......JET BURNER, CASTIRON, 9" L.P. (CHINA) : Restaurant Equipment and Supplies - Restaurant equipment, Restaurant Supplies, Foodservice Supplies
the prices vary so much tho i'm not sure if the ones that cost twice as much are twice the quality or not. I would be happy to hear your thoughts on what burner to go with. I was thinking hurricane burners from northern brewer when i first decided to build a system, then I saw the jet burners that lonnie used and decided to go with something similar. I like the price of the 23 jet burner but I have seen a few people unappy with the performance. Do you think I need to go smaller? The smaller 10 jet burner is twice the cost of the 23 jet burner on top food service which didn't make a lot of sense to me. I also wonder if one like this JET BURNER, CASTIRON, W/COVER,10" L.P. : Restaurant Equipment and Supplies - Restaurant equipment, Restaurant Supplies, Foodservice Supplies or the 9" one with the cover would help protect it from the wind??

I have the 10 jet burner. They were cheaper when I bought them. I had to do a bit of adjustment, but they work ok. I boil 15 gallons with no problem. If there is a better alternative, I would be up for a change though.
 
I have the 10 jet burner. They were cheaper when I bought them. I had to do a bit of adjustment, but they work ok. I boil 15 gallons with no problem. If there is a better alternative, I would be up for a change though.

so you wouldn't really recommend the 10 jet burners, do you think the 23 jet would be better or worse? Or are you thinking maybe not even jet at all? I might buy the 23 jet and the hurricane to see which work better. Or what do you think about the burner with the wind cover? do you think they would be better or worse than the setup you have? I will have to do some thinking and more research on the burners. I'm still welding up my frame and gathering parts so I have a bit before i'm ready for a test fire anyway. I had almost talked myself into the 23 jet burner just on the price factor alone but I think i'll do a little more research, just because it's the cheapest don't mean it's the right choice!
 
This is another style burner i am considering making, don't look to tough, got the idea from the brewtree.





the website says 200,000 btu but not sure how you would test it...........
 
Eariler in the thread there has been discussion between yourself and tjferris on the different typs of burners used.

Ok got it. I used 10 tip and they are fine, just not great. I hear they are running more $ than the 20 tip though. Anyway, if you are going low pressure or NG there isn't a lot of choice out there.
 
Hey Korndog,

Did you use the 24V Love controllers or did you use 120V Love controllers and have a 24V transformer inline for both? Do you have a shot of your control panel online?

I like the idea of going with the honeywell dual valves with the electric spark pilot instead of having the ASCO STC/baso combo.

Cheers

matt
 
Hey Korndog,

Did you use the 24V Love controllers or did you use 120V Love controllers and have a 24V transformer inline for both? Do you have a shot of your control panel online?

I like the idea of going with the honeywell dual valves with the electric spark pilot instead of having the ASCO STC/baso combo.

Cheers

matt

No need to worry. You can use 120V switches; the output is just an SPDT switch, which can carry either voltage. Just use a 24V 40VA transformer into a barrier strip and wire your switch. Herre is a photo, but I'm not sure if it helps.

panel.jpg
 
Wait... So the voltage of the Love controller is only for powering the controller and it can actually switch any voltage?

Ex: I can pickup two 120V controllers and use them to switch 24V on pins 9-11 while using 120V to power them on pins 7 and 8?

I did not know that.... I've only used Ranco controllers in the past...
 
Wait... So the voltage of the Love controller is only for powering the controller and it can actually switch any voltage?

Ex: I can pickup two 120V controllers and use them to switch 24V on pins 9-11 while using 120V to power them on pins 7 and 8?

I did not know that.... I've only used Ranco controllers in the past...

Yes, that is correct. It's a glorified toggle switch.
 
I have been looking into these honeywell valves for a few days now. Me crossing over this thread couldn't have been at a better time.

Thanks Korndog.
 
Korndog, excuse my ignorance. If these are pilot operated, whats the purpose of the spark ignitor? Simply to make sure the pilot stays lit? I'm interested in spark ignition but don't understand why the pilot. Also if the controller can be 12VAC to control 24 V solenoid I'm assuming the 24 V is AC also, correct?
 
Korndog, excuse my ignorance. If these are pilot operated, whats the purpose of the spark ignitor? Simply to make sure the pilot stays lit? I'm interested in spark ignition but don't understand why the pilot. Also if the controller can be 12VAC to control 24 V solenoid I'm assuming the 24 V is AC also, correct?

Good question. There are two ways to use a spark ignition system. One is to light the main burner directly, the other is to light a pilot first. Mine uses a Honeywell dual valve which lights a pilot first, then will open the main valve once there is proof of flame. There is a system on this board that uses spark to ignite the main burner directly, but I can't remember who's it is. Kladue posted the configuration, I believe. The pilot system is very simple and doesn't take much tweaking, where I believe the direct system takes a bit of fiddling to get the sensor rods just right.

Yes, 24VAC
 
Pilot burners let you adjust burner flame without having to position flame sensing rod by trial and error, might work at high fire but flame might not touch sensing rod at low fire level if you adjust burner gas flow. Yes they are more work but give a more bullet proof final product with most of the burners in use these days.
 
So a quick parts list would be: solenoid valve, spark module, spark and heat rod as, contoller, 120-24VAC transformer per burner? I'm trying to get a estimate of what it might cost to automate my burners. Also where other than Ebay have you found cheap sourcing?
 
You should only need one 24V transformer if you wire it into a couple terminal strips and use that to feed the 24V side of your system.
 

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