Deschutes Red Chair NWPA knockoff/recipe construction

Next weekend is a brewing weekend, and its been quite some time since I brewed a nice pale ale. One of the better pale ales I've enjoyed recently is the Deschutes Red Chair NWPA. It seems a little different from when it was called the Red Chair IPA, but it is quite delicious and very drinkable. Both my girlfriend and I love to knock these down with dinner so this seemed to be a great influence to start with.

Since this beer is relatively new and I haven't seen anybody deconstruct this one I emailed Deschutes to see what I'd get. Lo and behold I got a response with a few "clone recipes" that are brewery authorized, but it only lists ingredients and not times/temps/etc. It is a decent starting point though.

Here is what they gave me to work with.

Boil Time: 95 minutes
Yeast Type: English yeast
Malt: NW 2-row Pale Malt, Crystal Malt, Carastan, Carapils, Munich, Pilsner
Hops: Cascade, Centennial

A little digging on the internet reveals a bit more useful info:

ABV: 6.4%
IBUs: 60

So they are obviously bittering with Centennial and finishing with Cascade. I might do an Apollo / Simcoe version since those are some of my favorite hops.

The grainbill is a bit complex. Its not very thick so the attenuation is probably around 75%

2row malt character is present, so its probably 75-85% 2row.
The color is fairly light so the crystal malt and carastan must be of the low lovibond varieties and in small amounts.
A touch of carapils is probably for head retention as there isn't much body.
The munich is obviously part of the nice "red" soft caramel smooth maltiness.
The pilsner malt just confuses the hell out of me.

Who wants to take a crack at decoding this recipe? I'm working on mine and I'll post in the morning after some more thought.

This is my running copy on this beer, I'll be keeping it up to date whenever significant changes take place.

Recipe updated 1-30-2010 @ 4:34p MST

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.62 gal
Estimated OG: 1.063 SG
Estimated Color: 10.0 SRM
Estimated IBU: 66.2 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
7.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 53.85 %
2.50 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 19.23 %
1.50 lb Pilsner (2 Row) UK (1.0 SRM) Grain 11.54 %
0.75 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt - 40L (40.0 SRM) Grain 5.77 %
0.75 lb Caravienne Malt (22.0 SRM) Grain 5.77 %
0.50 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 3.85 %
0.50 oz Citra [11.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Apollo Pellet [18.30 %] (90 min) Hops 31.8 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [8.30 %] (15 min) Hops 13.4 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (15 min) Hops 21.0 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [8.30 %] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-SteepHops -
0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-SteepHops -
1.10 items Whirlfloc Tablet (Boil 5.0 min) Misc
1 Pkgs California Ale (White Labs #WLP001) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 13.00 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
75 min Mash In Add 21.00 qt of water at 161.0 F 152.0 F
10 min Mash Out Add 11.70 qt of water at 200.0 F 168.0 F

This description is for Red Chair IPA:

Despite all of this, Red Chair is still a hop forward ale, but not in the way many have gotten used to. You will find no cloying, mouth puckering bitterness here. In its place a straight up succulent citrus punch to the nose. This is due to the experimental nature of some of the hops, as well as, how late in the process they were added.

Click to expand...

My guess is this beer gets most of its IBU's from late additions.

geolover said:

This description is for Red Chair IPA:

My guess is this beer gets most of its IBU's from late additions.

Click to expand...

Good call. Missed that. It doesn't have the huge hop burst that a majority-late hopped IPA has.
Its hoppy and bright, but not like punch you in the face necessary to get 60 IBUs from 15 minutes and under additions. Maybe half of the IBUs are from 30 minutes and under?

Deschutes uses yeast similar to thames valley. Closer than 001 would be 002 though.

You are using completely different hops though...which is the forefront of this beer, so it might not be that important.

Another thing to keep in mind is that we have 3.0SRM 2-row over here, so your color might be a bit off if you have all the right blend of malts.

WLP002 is indeed an "English Ale Yeast" but they are getting close to 80% attenuation with it. That is most decidedly not the WLP002 I can get as that tops out around 71-72% attenuation.
I just have WLP001 in there for now until I can come up with a better substitute.
I realize I'm changing the hop schedule up a lot. My new recipe sheet is already different than whats up there. I'll update.

Deschutes yeast is rumored to have descended from Wyeast 1968. If you serially propagate the less flocculant cells from a couple of starters, and are patient with rousing up the yeast every day for a week after fermentation dies down, I bet you can get it down to 80% attenuation.

If you don't want to go to all that trouble I would recommend Wyeast 1028, I have great results with it in hoppy beers and it has no trouble reaching 80% attenuation as long as you keep the % of crystal low and mash at 150.

I'll see about picking up a 6-er and will weigh in with other useless mumble jumble after I'm too to post correctly.

saq said:

WLP002 is indeed an "English Ale Yeast" but they are getting close to 80% attenuation with it. That is most decidedly not the WLP002 I can get as that tops out around 71-72% attenuation.

Click to expand...

Just talking about taste, not atten.

In one of their hoppy beers, you won't notice much anyway. Use the 001, won't hurt anything.

Saccharomyces said:

Deschutes yeast is rumored to have descended from Wyeast 1968. If you serially propagate the less flocculant cells from a couple of starters, and are patient with rousing up the yeast every day for a week after fermentation dies down, I bet you can get it down to 80% attenuation.

If you don't want to go to all that trouble I would recommend Wyeast 1028, I have great results with it in hoppy beers and it has no trouble reaching 80% attenuation as long as you keep the % of crystal low and mash at 150.

I'll see about picking up a 6-er and will weigh in with other useless mumble jumble after I'm too to post correctly.

Click to expand...

The ESB yeast would make sense, London could produce a similar taste. I am still going with my 1275 Thames Valley though, I made a Jubelale clone with it and the yeast was pretty dead on in attenuation and taste.

Speaking of which...maybe I will walk in with a sterile jar on a brew day and make some slants for anyone who sends me a vial. I'll ask them if it's OK.

dkershner said:

The ESB yeast would make sense, London could produce a similar taste. I am still going with my 1275 Thames Valley though, I made a Jubelale clone with it and the yeast was pretty dead on in attenuation and taste.

Speaking of which...maybe I will walk in with a sterile jar on a brew day and make some slants for anyone who sends me a vial. I'll ask them if it's OK.

Click to expand...

I'll send a few 50ml centrifuge tubes!

Ok, I wasn't anywhere close to happy with my original recipe with this and I kind of shelved it and went to my Trinity APA recipe and did some tweaks. Some of the ideas from the grainbill of this beer worked its way into The Trinity v2 and now I actually think this might be a decent crack at this beer. I know someone who used to work with one of the brewers who is now at Deschutes and he is going to see him in a few weeks and ask about the recipe for me


For now here is my "Pilot" for this beer

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 5.50 gal
Boil Size: 7.62 gal
Estimated OG: 1.061 SG
Estimated Color: 8.4 SRM
Estimated IBU: 46.6 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount Item Type % or IBU
10.00 lb Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 80.84 %
1.50 lb Munich Malt - 10L (10.0 SRM) Grain 12.13 %
0.50 lb Carastan (37.0 SRM) Grain 4.04 %
0.25 lb Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 2.02 %
0.12 lb Caramel/Crystal Malt -120L (120.0 SRM) Grain 0.97 %
0.50 oz Apollo Pellet [17.50 %] (90 min) Hops 30.9 IBU
0.50 oz Simcoe [12.70 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Citra [11.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
1.00 oz Simcoe Freshops Leaf 2009 [12.70 %] (5 mHops 8.4 IBU
1.00 oz Citra Freshops Leaf 2009 [11.00 %] (5 minHops 7.2 IBU
10.00 gal Trinity v2 Water Water
1 Pkgs Nottingham Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP039) Yeast-Ale


Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body
Total Grain Weight: 12.37 lb
----------------------------
Single Infusion, Light Body
Step Time Name Description Step Temp
60 min Mash In Add 21.43 qt of water at 160.4 F 152.0 F

Reading on their website (or somewhere..?) I thought they mentioned "experimental" hops. It did taste very citrusy to me, even more so than centennial and cascade usually are. Also they mentioned 7 grains while your original recipe only has 6. I think maybe there are 2 different crystal malts. Also, I think they use Great Western Northwest Pale Ale Malt for their domestic 2-row, which is a little darker than traditional US 2-Row and is a bit closer to english pale malts.

Anyways, I love this beer and would like to make something like it. Just tried it for the first time this weekend.

I appreciate the work that has been done thus far in putting together the clone recipe. I agree that the grains are pretty well on target and the English Yeast (Thames) seems right but the only detailed recipe is not reflective of what a true clone recipe ought to be, in my opinion where the Hops are concerned:
Deschutes Brewery listed the hops as being cascade and centennial...period.
So I have to question....how much for the centennial hops and when and where as well as the cascades: Here there are Simcoe and Apollo and cirtra all listed and all of these are not a part of a true clone...Unless I am missing something. Does anybody have suggestions ?

0.50 oz Citra [11.00 %] (Dry Hop 7 days) Hops -
0.50 oz Apollo Pellet [18.30 %] (90 min) Hops 31.8 IBU
1.00 oz Cascade [8.30 %] (15 min) Hops 13.4 IBU
1.00 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (15 min) Hops 21.0 IBU
0.50 oz Cascade [8.30 %] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-SteepHops 0.50 oz Simcoe [13.00 %] (5 min) (Aroma Hop-SteepHops

Like the title says its a knockoff, not a clone. Red Chair NWPA is a great beer and I really like the interesting, flavorful, but light and drinkable malt character the beer has. The hop character is decent, but I think a Simcoe/Citra combo would kick it up a notch both in volume and character of flavor into something quite tasty.

For a real clone I'd do:

0.75oz Centennial @ 90
1oz Centennial @ 15
1oz Cascade @ 15
1oz Cascade @ 5
0.5oz Centennial dryhop (questionable, might not be dry hopped with Centennial)
0.5oz Cascade dryhop

Thank You! I will give this one a whirl and report back...then I may give your Knock Off a shot too, it does sound good, there just are not any true clone recipe's out there for Red Chair yet...so I was curious as to how one would put it together, Thanks again!

Kendallmessner:

Have you had a chance to brew this yet? I too am looking for a good clone for this. I had also contacted Deschutes Brewery and they e-mailed me a copy of their approved recipe, minus the quantities/times/temps. Look forward to hearing what you think of your recipe.
Thanks!

So I've been drinking this the past few days. The brewing process did not quite go according to plan.

The first problem was I brewed this on a double-brewday and it was the second beer in the queue
I got 53% effeciency, and I got 86% attenuation with nottingham. There is almost no malt character, some bitterness and light hops. After I recalibrated my expectations I think it is pretty good. Its about 5% ABV and a super quaffable beer, I've gotten some compliments on it already.
The next go around should have my brewhouse efficiency up and a tamer yeast to leave me something to drink
I think its in the right direction, just need a little tuning.

Ok, so I can't follow orders, typically,
I decided that I really like the malt charactor of Red Chair,...
But like IPA's a lot too...
especially stone ruination...
and ended up with the following

7lb american Two row Pale extract
2lb american Munich light
1lb Belgian pils
.35 lb Belgian Carapils
.55 Belgian CaraMunich
2lb Amber Dry Malt extract

Hops:
2oz Magnum for 90 Min
1 oz Centennial 30 Min
.5 oz Cascade for 10
.5 Centennial for 5
1 OZ Cascade Dry hop

OG 1.075
FG 1.015

Color is right and even though it is young, it is tasting good. ...looking forward to trying it in a week or so....

Looks pretty good! I think the malt character of this beer is best suited towards a hoppy NWPA than an IPA. Soon as I get around to my AIPA I'm going to take the carastan and munich idea in this beer and add in some honey malt, low amounts of each though. Kind of a blend of NWPA & Alesmith IPA.

Wow, just tried this beer for the first time last night, and wow, my new favorite beer. I had never tried the original red chair IPA, this was the new red chair nwpa, and it was awesome. So naturally, I want to brew some up. Did anyone ever find a good recipe for this one??

Any updates on how the attempts above turned out? I really want to brew this.

I actually think my recipe (if proper efficiency and attenuation were achieved) would have a comparable malt character, comparable bitterness but a different hop profile.

If you want a real clone sub my hops with comparable IBU levels of centennial and cascade.

Thanks guys, I finally got my batch done and taste tested. The beer turned out great.
I'd add 2 oz of cascade at flame out just to punch up the hop hit.
By the way, its an American IPA, not a Pale Ale, based on BJCP standards.



For full details see:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/2010/07/17/deschutes-red-chair-nwpa-clone-home-brew-recipe/

So yeah...they changed the recipe for this years Red Chair. I used Larry's recipe from the 2010 batch, but had a few tweeks:

10 gal (all grain):
13 lb 2-row Pale
2.0 lb Crystal 20L
1 lb Carastan (30L)
2 lb Munich
2 lb Pilsner
1 lb CaraPils

(@ 75% brewhouse efficiency,10 gallon batch)



Hops:
Columbus, 1 ounce, FW
Columbus, 1 ounce, 60 minutes
Cascade, 1 ounce, 15 minutes
Cascade, 1ounce, 5 minutes
Cascade, 2 ounce, 1 minute (flame out)
Amraillo, 2 ounce, dry hop

Yeast:
WL 005

I will let everyone know how this turns out.

Saw this recipe and thought of red chair...the original recipe was meant to have amarillo, but due to shortage they are using cascade and centennial.

A strong, deep copper-red ale that boasts
a complex malt profile but is really a showcase for hopbursting. Hopbursting forgoes the traditional additions of bittering hops
early in the boil in favor of copious additions of aroma varieties late in the boil. For the brewer, the result is a significant IBU
contribution as well as intense hop aroma
and flavor from the late additions. For the
drinker, the result is smooth bitterness in
a pint suffused with a fragrant fog of hop
flavor and aroma.

Click to expand...

http://www.northernbrewer.com/documentation/allgrain/AG-JamilsEvilTwin.pdf

I might use a grain bill and hop schedule very similar to this, but replacing the victory with carastan and skipping the chocolate malt.

Review of the clone brewed on the 17 Apr - tasted 26 May

A - pours out a good clear amber/copper color, with nice head. good lacing all the way down. Think this captured Red Chair well.

S - Noted some fruity/piney tones to compliment a nice aroma of citrus/grapefruit hopiness

T - The taste has a very nice mix of hoppy and malty. I get some malty, slight caramel notes coming through. From the hops I get the grapefruit flavors, along with a slight fruit flavor. Pine is there, but a little less present than in the aroma. It finishes on the bitter side. Good hop flavor to it overall, but I think a bit stronger than Red Chair.

M - Light body with average carbonation.

D - Super drinkable beer. It finished at 5.1% Definitely a session beer.

I think i would play with the hops a bit more. Overall, this is a really good APA very similar to Deschutes version.


Thanks to the OP for the recipe!!

Here's one I cobbled together, it was a real hit at our octoberfest last year. Dry keg at the end of the afternoon.

http://hopville.com/recipe/298642/american-ipa-recipes/red-lounger

As mentioned in there - I cold steeped the roasted barley and then added it and sparged right at the end to extract the color primarily without the roasted barley hit.

Hey Guys,
Thanks for sharing the work on this. I really enjoyed this beer when I lived in WA. My version has a little twist because I had a bag of Citra hops I've been wanting to experiment with. Definitely the best IPA or pale ale I've made to date!!! Really reminds me of the NW beers I've been missing. I used Larry's grist bill, WLP007, and Mashed @ 151. OG: 1.059 FG:1.013. Hop Schedule:
1oz Columbus @ 60
0.5oz Citra @ 10
0.50oz Citra @ 5
1oz Citra @ KO
1oz Citra Dry Hop

When I brew this again I might up the flavor hops at 10 min and maybe a little more bittering hops just because I like to tinker, but the malt with the WLP007 is great!

GetLooseontheGoose said:

So yeah...they changed the recipe for this years Red Chair. I used Larry's recipe from the 2010 batch, but had a few tweeks:
10 gal (all grain):
13 lb 2-row Pale
2.0 lb Crystal 20L
1 lb Carastan (30L)
2 lb Munich
2 lb Pilsner
1 lb CaraPils
(@ 75% brewhouse efficiency,10 gallon batch)
Hops:
Columbus, 1 ounce, FW
Columbus, 1 ounce, 60 minutes
Cascade, 1 ounce, 15 minutes
Cascade, 1ounce, 5 minutes
Cascade, 2 ounce, 1 minute (flame out)
Amraillo, 2 ounce, dry hop
Yeast:
WL 005

I will let everyone know how this turns out.

Click to expand...

Goose-
Looks more like an IPA hop schedule than an APA...Yummy though! How was it? How would you change the hops next time? Would you brew this one again?

My local beer store had the Deschutes red Chair in and my wife and I drank it this weekend. Amazing. I need to try this clone recipe.