Trellis Design Between 2 Pine Trees?

I have 2 very tall pine trees that are 21 feet apart right on the edge of my grass line where I'm going to grow hops. They would face east, and get a decent amount of sun, especially in the afternoon/evening.

I'd like to plant 4 varieties between the trees and use the trees for my trellis "poles".

How close to the pine trees could I plant the first rhizome on each side? I'm planning on about 1.5 feet away.

For the trellis, I was thinking of screwing in some eye bolts about 20 feet off the ground into each tree, and eye bolts on each tree at ground level as well. The running something up through as the main line. I bought some of the hop coconut husk twine to use for lines from the ground up. Is that twine strong enough to run as the main support or is there a cheapish alternative?

Any other ideas on how I might make it easy to put up and then back down?

From Freshops on spacing: (Hop Gardening)

"Planting

The soil should be tilled to create a weed free area. A strong support system is needed for the plant to climb on. Look for space along fences, garage, or property lines. Plant in early spring once the threat of frost is gone but no later than May. the soil should be worked into a fine, friable condition prior to planting. In cold climates you can plant rhizomes in pots and transplant in June.

Plant 1 rhizome per hill with the buds pointed up and cover with 1 inch of loose soil. Hills should be spaced at least 3 feet apart if the hills are of the same variety and 5 feet apart if they are different. The first year the hop plant requires frequent light watering. "

Thanks. I had read that and knew my rhizome spacing, but I'm actually wondering how close to the pine tree people think I could go.

For the top wire, I'm also wondering how strong it needs to be with 4-5 plants, and would I need some kind of tensioners?

From the few pine trees that I have had to cut down / dig up at my parents house, their roots can go a far ways. I know the pine tree they just cut down had roots 30 feet long that got into their septic system. 1.5 feet may be a little close to the tree since hops roots can grow quite a ways. You may end up also digging into the roots if they are older trees. Not sure on the tensioner. My first year plants were probably about 2-4 pounds per plant at the most and I anchored them to a barn with hop twine, so I wasn't really worried about anything moving.

Don't the majority of pine tree roots grow straight down?

It's not the weight of the vine you have to worry about, it's all the surface area they present to the wind creating a big sail.

If it were me, I'd put an eyebolt in each tree and run a 3/16" cable across, through the eyebolt and down to ground level. Put another eyebolt in the tree down there and use a turnbuckle on both cables with a hook on the end. The idea is that you want to be able to release both ends so that the vines come down to you for harvesting. However, you don't want to lose the ends or you'll have to get the ladder back out to grab the ends again.

Chello said:

Don't the majority of pine tree roots grow straight down?

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When we dug up the pine trees at my parents house, the were 6-8 inch roots 4-5 feet out from the trunk. This was a 15 year old tree.

I would be a bit worried about the close hop bines wrapping themselves around the trees. They can be very grabby and sidearms can be 3 feet long. Of course, if you planted Cascades next to the trees, a little pine resin wouldn't be a problem.

Most pine trees create a very acidic soil around them. I would check the Ph of the soil, make sure it's good for growing.

Awesome, thanks for all the info everyone! It's appreciated.

I'm going to tag onto this thread because when I read the OP I thought, "well, that's pretty much exactly what I would have written." Below is a picture of my back yard with the two pine trees in question pointed at by yellow arrows.

I'm thinking 4 varieties also. I would like to build 2 mini-raised bed gardens for the plantings (2 varieties each). I'm intrigued by Bobby's suggestion, but I'm not sure I understand it. I was thinking of running something (cable?) between the two trees and then having cable attach to whatever I run between the two trees and then down to the ground at an angle (out towards you in the picture).

But, as Bobby said, I'm concerned about tree movement. I thought of attaching high-tensile strength extension springs to the "cable" that runs horizontal from tree to tree. But maybe that's a bad idea... I don't know. Any ideas?

Here's the configuration I was thinking.

That's pretty much what I was planning so I'd be interested if this was a good or bad idea as well. Eye bolt one tree down low, cable with hook and spring attached, run cable up to a higher eye bolt then across to another eye bolt and on back down to a turnbuckle attached to a final eye bolt. Should be able to tighten up the cables to take ups slack that way and still have spring in the whole thing to protect from tree sway. The two pines I have in mind are 30" plus so I shouldn't have much sway. Would clothes line do ok for the bines to climb up on? Tie it on the cable going across and run it down to tent stakes driven into the ground below grade.

The other idea I had was to have an eye bolt up high and a single line with length over twice the height to the eye bolt running down to an anchor. On the top end of the line a 2x4, 4' long with eye bolt in the middle on the back and one eye bolt on each end on the front (or just holes drilled and big knots tied on the back side in the lines running down). Run lines down to tent stakes. You could raise and lower the whole contraption for harvesting. The problem I see is how to deal with sway in this design. Maybe springs up at the 2x4 in the lines running down to the bines or if using clothes line there may be enough stretch in that to handle the sway, especially if there is a lot of slack in the line going up to the tree.

Might want to check the Ph of your soil. I think pine trees tend to have more acidic soil around them than the hops may want. Just a thought.

Displaced MassHole said:

Might want to check the Ph of your soil. I think pine trees tend to have more acidic soil around them than the hops may want. Just a thought.

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Just to elaborate a little...from what I've read you want a soil pH around 6.0-6.2.

As a forester by trade, I can say that pine trees do in fact increase (more acidic) soil pH. You might be ok there, as your hops plant would be on the edge of that forested area. Get your soil tested for pH and Verticilium for about $10 at a university extension office.

My soil is definitely acidic... pine trees and sand. I'm about 7 miles from the ocean. That's why I'm planning on doing raised beds.