Bad smell when malting grains

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Cachalote

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well, I've been following this tutorial for 3 days now with barley and wheat grains


It's been turning out fine, the grains have been sprouting quickly, tomorrow morning I'll transfer the grains to a clay pot for the germination to be completed.

One question though: when I open the pot with the grains, there is a stench that gets worse once I fill it with water (which also forms a little bit of foam) and drain it. It's sort of a sour, fart-like stench. I guess this is probably some sort of bacteria growing in it. Does this affect the malt? Should I discard it or can I still use it for brewing? I'm guessing I could, since the grains will be heated after the germinating is complete, but will it give some sort of off-flavour to the beer once it's finished?

Thanks! :mug:
 
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Lactobacillus = sauermalz

Just taste it when you are done and see if it is sweet and nutty like regular malt or sour.
 
Lactobacillus = sauermalz

Just taste it when you are done and see if it is sweet and nutty like regular malt or sour.

What if it's sour? Should I discard it?

ps: I didn't expressed myself correctly in the first post; the smell resembles more that of vomit... gross
 
Vomit, as you'd imagine, contains a lot of acid, specifically stomach acid, so it may be lactobacillus.

If it's sour, I wouldn't throw it away, but I also wouldn't try to use it as a regular malt. Treat it like sour malt. Find or come up with a different recipe. It could end up being a happy accident.
 
One question though: when I open the pot with the grains, there is a stench that gets worse once I fill it with water (which also forms a little bit of foam) and drain it. It's sort of a sour, fart-like stench. I guess this is probably some sort of bacteria growing in it...
You are speaking about the first 48 hours alternating soaking and resting?

Does it smell worse than the previous times you have done this?

Or do you just mean unfamiliar?

I just followed that same video to malt some millet grain for the first time.

I'd say you can either go with your gut that the smell is "a stench" due to bacteria and toss it all or continue with the experiment (that's what it is if it is your first malting project) and follow through with sprouting and drying.

If it's really "a stench" due to bacteria you should probably toss it. Are you really that sure that is what it is?
 
You are speaking about the first 48 hours alternating soaking and resting?

Does it smell worse than the previous times you have done this?

Or do you just mean unfamiliar?

I just followed that same video to malt some millet grain for the first time.

I'd say you can either go with your gut that the smell is "a stench" due to bacteria and toss it all or continue with the experiment (that's what it is if it is your first malting project) and follow through with sprouting and drying.

If it's really "a stench" due to bacteria you should probably toss it. Are you really that sure that is what it is?

Yes, I started malting it Sunday afternoon, removed the residual husks and unusable grains, left it 6 hours covered in water, washed the water away, and have been convering it in water, draining and leaving it 8 more hours since then (with the pot covered). Today (Wednesday morning) I rinsed for the last time and put it in a sieve, and put the sieve over a pot to drain any residual water (I don't have terracota pots in my home, like the guy from the video). But since the first 24h, the malt began to stink and has been getting worse over time.

Actually, I'm not sure it is due to bacteria, I just guessed so due to the acid vomity smell.

This is the first time I'm trying this, so I'm not sure wether I did something wrong or not. I washed all the pots and sieves before putting the grains in them, but didn't sanitize them (the video didn't say anything about sanitizing, and the guy just put his hands on the grains, so I guessed it wasn't needed).

Yesterday evening I bought some more barley to test if the same smell would occur, put it through the same process (took extra care with the cleaning part this time) and left it resting with no cover this time. Today morning it wasn't smelly at all, I sieved it and put some more water, but now (10 AM) I went there and it is beggining to get a similar smell (still very light though).

I'll continue with it to the end and see the final results, maybe even if it's sour I'll brew some of the stuff to see how it fares as beer.
 
I've been thinking, maybe the smell is due to the bacteria fermenting only the sugar in suspension in the water the grains were soaked, and they only contaminated the water (or maybe the outer surface of the grains). Hopefully when I'm done with the drying and roasting process, the smell will go away and the malt will taste normal.
 
Let me first say, that I didn't watched the video, but I have germinated all kinds of seeds, including barley. It sounds to me like the grains are too wet and there is poor air circulation. These conditions favor funky smelling bacteria.

I'm not convinced it is lactobacillus, as that should smell, well, kinda yogurty. Actually I recently read that malt companies now routinely ADD lactobacillus when malting as it not only out competes other undesireable microbes, it apparently some how improves the quality of the final product.
 
So I'm in the 5th day of germination and the bad smell is gone. Now i'm worried about a white gluey substance that's coming out of some grains when you squeeze them. I'm also having a hard time finding whether the acrospyre is at the right length to stop the germination. Help?
 
I threw it out. I decided that it wasn't worth keeping it since most grains were not sprouted anymore, some were adhered to each other and most had that weird white gluey liquid when squeezed, and now the smell was like chaff or hay (I had to travel for the last 4 days and had my mother taking care of it, so I guess she did something wrong, she told me she put it under the fan, so I'm guessing the seeds dehydrated and died or something like that).

I'll buy some more barley tomorrow and try again, this time taking some precautions I didn't the last time.
 
I know exactly what happened, or rather the exact same thing that happened to you happened to me also, and I have been able to fix it in future batches. Literally the exact same thing happened to me - the vomit smell, the white gluey stuff (I assume it was a kind of mold). I think we over-soaked the seeds (especially the huskless wheat?). Maybe we drowned them or maybe the too moist environment simply allowed bacteria to dominate. At any rate, you didn't see the acrospire because the seed was dead, not because the acrospire wouldn't be noticeable under normal circumstances.

I have malted since, and the key to getting a good start to germination was - 8 hour soak, 8 hour dry, followed by 2 hour soak, 8 hour dry. Repeat until you see a white dot on the tip of most/all of your seeds. Then move onto germination.
 
I know exactly what happened, or rather the exact same thing that happened to you happened to me also, and I have been able to fix it in future batches. Literally the exact same thing happened to me - the vomit smell, the white gluey stuff (I assume it was a kind of mold). I think we over-soaked the seeds (especially the huskless wheat?). Maybe we drowned them or maybe the too moist environment simply allowed bacteria to dominate. At any rate, you didn't see the acrospire because the seed was dead, not because the acrospire wouldn't be noticeable under normal circumstances.

I have malted since, and the key to getting a good start to germination was - 8 hour soak, 8 hour dry, followed by 2 hour soak, 8 hour dry. Repeat until you see a white dot on the tip of most/all of your seeds. Then move onto germination.

That's awesome, thanks for the feedback! I don't know wether we over-soaked or under-soaked the seeds. I've read some sources that tell to keep the grains soaked until the seeds begin to chit, only changing water and rinsing the grains every 8 hours. I found this somewhere about gluten free malting, but I guess it's the same:

The Malting Process

Make sure you begin with raw, whole, untreated grain. If you purchase the grain from a feed supplier or farm store, make sure to ask for ‘feed’ grain, and not ‘seed’ grain. Seed grain is often treated with fungicides and other chemicals, and cost far more than whole feed grain. I usually malt no more than 10 pounds of grain at a time. I use a large food-grade plastic tub to sprout the grain. Make sure to wash the grain thoroughly by filling your container with water above the level of the grain, agitating the mixture by hand, and pouring off the water several times. Remove any floating debris and broken kernels. Finally, fill the container to the top of the grain level with cool water, changing the water every 6-8 hours. Allow to soak for a day or so. When grains have rehydrated, drain the water, cover loosely, and allow to sprout in a dark, room temperature location. Rinse and drain off all excess water every 6-8 hours, tossing the grain gently each time. Oxygen is important to the growth process, but a loose cover can help keep molds from forming on the surface. Another technique is to thinly spread the moist, rehydrated grains onto mats or screens. I have found the container method sufficient for all grains except corn. A note about corn: the corn I was able to obtain has a great deal of broken kernels. Removal of as much broken material before rehydration helped greatly with germination. The next time I germinate corn, I will try the mat method.

A rule of thumb for the proper level of germination is when the acrospire (the sprout) has grown to the length of the seed. This rule, however, does not make much sense when working with a seed as small as sorghum. I allow sorghum to reach 3-4 times the seed length. The longer you allow the grain to germinate, the more enzymes you will end up with in the final product, but at the expense of lowering the amount of useable starch to convert into sugars.

Once the grain has reached the desired level of germination, remove the grain from the malting container onto a dry towel, sheet or screen. Allow the grain to air dry for a day or so. The next step is to kiln, or dry, the grain completely in an oven. Kilning also destroys some of the desirable enzymes, so allowing a portion of the grain to completely air dry at low temperatures creates what is known as green malt. The use of a small percentage of green malt in the mashing process should help with the low levels of enzymes. Higher temperatures, however, are necessary for developing the flavors and aromas needed for beer brewing. As the temperature and time increase in the kilning process, color and taste intensify. Temperatures under 150F create a light, mild malt; between 150-300F, brown malts; and 300-450F+ dark, highly roasted coffee and chocolate malts are made. Experiment with different time/temperature combinations on the same batch of grain to develop a feel for the kilning process. Note: when moist grain is kilned at around 150F, caramel flavors and aromas are made. Experiment with the amount of residual moisture in the grain when you begin the kilning process.

I'll try both your method and this one on very small amounts of barley, beginning today (one cup for each method), and compare the results.

Cheers! :mug:
 
That white gluey stuff is what you want! That is softened and partially broken down endosperm (starch)

Are you sure? It looked nasty, and I think it was too liquid to be just starch... Maybe starch mixed with some byproduct of bacteria (lactic acid, probably) in a slightly dehydrated state?
 
EBloom97 said:
I have malted since, and the key to getting a good start to germination was - 8 hour soak, 8 hour dry, followed by 2 hour soak, 8 hour dry. Repeat until you see a white dot on the tip of most/all of your seeds. Then move onto germination.

You mean repeat that whole 8h soak-8h dry-2h soak-8h dry cycle or just repeat the 2h soak-8h dry cycle? I hope that wasn't too confusing. Btw, I just put 10 tablespoons of barley in each pot and started each with one of these processes we discussed here. Let's see which one is best.
 
That's awesome, thanks for the feedback! I don't know wether we over-soaked or under-soaked the seeds. I've read some sources that tell to keep the grains soaked until the seeds begin to chit, only changing water and rinsing the grains every 8 hours.
That will work only if you have an air stone to pump oxygen into the water. Seeds needs oxygen just like people do. If you leave them soaked indefinitely with no way for them to get oxygen, then they might drown. You'll know you did this if only a few of the seeds have chits after a few days.
You mean repeat that whole 8h soak-8h dry-2h soak-8h dry cycle or just repeat the 2h soak-8h dry cycle? I hope that wasn't too confusing.
Basically I do an initial soak of 8 hours to get the seed wet. Then I let it breathe for 8 hours. The seeds are still moist at this time, but they're not soaking, so they're still absorbing some residual water while taking their oxygen break. After that I'm alternating 2 on and 8 off until they chit, with the off still being moist enough to continue the process, but dry enough to let the seed breathe. Doing this at room temperature, which I assume is not ideal, I found it was 8 on, 8 off, 2 on, 8 off, 2 on, 8 off, and then they're pretty much ready for the next stage. I start in the morning one day and finish in the afternoon the next.

And all of this works best for barley, but I would assume doesn't work for wheat, which is huskless and seems to absorb water much quicker.
 
Are you sure? It looked nasty, and I think it was too liquid to be just starch... Maybe starch mixed with some byproduct of bacteria (lactic acid, probably) in a slightly dehydrated state?

Almost positive! It does soften up quite a bit, and then hardens during drying. What happens when you soak beans overnight before cooking? They soften. Add in some enzymatic action and it softens even more

I can also almost guarantee you that you drowned the seed. Seeds (and plants) need to breath, same as we do. They carry out respiration almost exactly like we do, and oxygen is required for that. I'm always amazed when I hear how long people soak their grain for. What ones needs to do is to keep it wet - and oxygenated. A long soak is convenient for us, but not the best for the grain. One doesn't plant seeds if the soil is too wet. An ideal set up would be a recirculating water spray where the seeds are not submerged. Next best would be an airstone in the water. What the typical change water steps do is to help ensure there is enough oxygen for the grains
 
I'm a *******! lol
Apparently the barley I bought cannot be germinated. It's a huskless type, I don't know if that's the way it's called in English: little barley?
The first batch of grains I tried to malt germinated because most of it was wheat, so I couldn't see the barley in it didn't germinate. A shame it got contaminated.
So I'll just use this for cooking and search for some place that sells the husked, regular barley, and then try again. More money and time wasted... At least I learned something.
When I get to it, I'll post my results here.
 
Thanks Cachalote that you redirected me here from YouTube (I'm QGG92) , in a veeery dark day .

Same thing happened to me with my barley. Followed that video and the second day of soaking and drying , I felt that smell. I continued the experiment (it's my first time also) , got over the period of soaking/drying , and two days after (today) , the smell is bigger and bigger and I can't find any signs of sprouting.... It's 4 days , since I started , so I guess it's actually all dead - and will throw it out . Note that mine has its husk : its wasn't little/husked barley or how it's called.

The same as you , squishing them blasts out a white liquid that looks like the stuff from an infected wound . Yuk. But , against all the yukness , and as someone suggested here , I tasted one:drunk: : its not sour.

PS: Since I live in a apartment , the process was done in the bathroom. Some grains (lots) dropped on the floor and washed out trough the emergency drainage. Now my bathroom stinks ... as hell. (the smell is a little bit spicy like vinegar , which I cannot stand!) Epic:rockin:.
 
Don't feel bad about being a dumb ass. I too am one!
After having amazing success malting corn and wheat,I got cocky and didn't even think about the husk situation until the house stank and the bloody birds in the garden wouldn't eat that stuff!
 
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