2 2K heatsticks on 1 30A breaker?

Just a quick sanity check...

I have a 50AMP breaker that was formerly used for a dryer. The outlet was fed by a 10Ga wire. During a renovation last year, we relocated the washer/dryer and cut that circuit. I have two 2K heatsticks that I would like to use in my basement brewery (in progress). I built a power distribution board to break the 240 into switch controlled GFCI protected outlets for the sticks. Based on my research, 10ga is okay for 30Amp, but not 50... hence my quandry.

Should I buy a 30AMP breaker (will two 2000 watt heatsticks work on a 30AMP circuit?) or do I $pend on a heavier gauge wire to go from the panel (use the 50 Amp breaker I already have) to the 4-wire recepticle?
I'm not trying to be cheap, but if I can save some money while not risking my or my families lives, I'd like to.

Are the heat sticks 120V or 240? 4000 watts at 240 is only 17 amps.

Based on my limited knowledge, I would say no. 4000/120 (assuming they're 120v) equals 33.3 Amps, enough to trip the breaker.

David- They are 120V. Sorry- omitted that detail.
Devilish- My thoughts too. Can the 50Amp breaker be used without upgrading to 8 gauge?

BeantownD said:

David- They are 120V. Sorry- omitted that detail.
Devilish- My thoughts too. Can the 50Amp breaker be used without upgrading to 8 gauge?

Click to expand...

For a 50A breaker you'd need to upgrade to 6 guage. 8 Gage is rated for 40 amps.

i posted this, and then deleted it, but I am reposting it now because I am pretty sure it's correct.

If you break things up so that each 2000W/120V element is using a separate hot line from the 2-pole breaker (it is 2-poles, right?), then you will not trip the breaker.

With only one element powered on, connected between a hot line and the neutral, then you are running 2000W@120V, and this is 16.6A. Your breaker will not trip.

When you have both powered on, the neutral connection is common between them. One element is driven by one hot and the other element is driven by the other hot. No current will flow on the neutral, because you have a system where all current is coming in from one hot line and going out on the other hot line.

This will effectively look like 4000W@240V, which is still 16.6A.

You can power both. You will only draw 16.6A, and your 30A breaker will not pop.

to help clarify...

think about your heater element as a simple resistor... cause that's really all it is.

If you are driving each resistor from separate 120V hot lines, and have them in series, like this:

+120V hot -> resistor1 ----> resistor2 -> -120V hot

Then you have a total of 240V drop across two equally sized resistors. each resistor will cause 1/2 of this total voltage to drop, so each one is effectively being driven by 120V.

The neutral will be connected to the longer arrow above (---->), and will have current flow on it when you only have one element being powered.

Thanks EUBrew for the correction on 50 AMP gauge. It's been a long work week and my brain is a little toasty.

Walker-that's how I was doing my math, but wanted to make sure I was on the right track.

There should not be any problems. Just make sure you break it out so that the two outlets are on opposite hot lines. You'll pull only that 16.6A

a comment on wire gauge: the insulation used on the wire has a significant impact on the current rating. romex and thhn are two different and common types of insulation, and a given gauge of copper wire can have different current ratings based on which of those it is covered in.

as an extreme example of the importance of insulation, the main power cable feeding my control box is made of 8 gauge stranded copper wire. It has some proprietary insulation on it and can handle 65A and 2000V.

Edit:
Removed because I was way off

sweet sounds: he's only going to pull 33.3 amps if both heater elements are pulling from the same hot line. if they are attached to separate hot lines, each leg will see a max of 16.6 amps.

i can show the math and circuit analysis if it will help make things clearer.

edit: and he will not have to run them both at the same time it's the "in series" connection that you described, except that the neutral is connected to the center point (between the two elements).

Hmm...

True, but the neutral will see 33.3 amps. I wouldn't think that's OK is it?
I mean, I'm sure the place won't burn to the ground by going over the 10 gauge wire's rating by 10%, but still...

On second thought, I do this myself on the power distro for live sound... (2) 20 amp 110v receptacles powered by a single 240v 20 amp breaker.

I'll shaddup now

neutral will see 16.6 amps only.

BeantownD said:

Just a quick sanity check...

I have two 2K heatsticks that I would like to use in my basement brewery (in progress). I built a power distribution board to break the 240 into switch controlled GFCI protected outlets for the sticks. Based on my research, 10ga is okay for 30Amp, but not 50... hence my quandry.

Should I buy a 30AMP breaker (will two 2000 watt heatsticks work on a 30AMP circuit?) or do I $pend on a heavier gauge wire to go from the panel (use the 50 Amp breaker I already have) to the 4-wire recepticle?
I'm not trying to be cheap, but if I can save some money while not risking my or my families lives, I'd like to.

Click to expand...

Walker is right, use two 120V outlets, each powered from a separate leg of the 240 and neutral. You can use one or two sticks, and it doesn't matter which, it/they will still only draw 16.7A at most, separately or together. If you already have the 4-conductor 10 gauge cable for the outlets, then you need 30A 2P breaker for your panel. The only question that remains is what outlet to use. Technically you should use those rated for 30A because of the breaker.

Edit: ... and when you run both sticks, neutral will see 0A.

30A 2P breaker and 4-wire recepticle and plug purchased today. Pics to follow. Walking the dog last night and seeing frost on the grass really made me appreciate the concept of an indoor basement brewery. Can't wait to have it in full swing!