Spice, Herb, or Vegetable Beer None More Black Vanilla Stout

Already had bubbles in the airlock 24hrs. Not as "violent" as I thought. Just like blub, blub, blub. Very interesting and already learning lots!

stever1000 said:

Ok, cold room it is.

I added cold water to speed up the cooling time (after I ran out of ice in the sink) and to top up the wort to ~5 gallons of water used total. However I think I added too much because my OG is now 1.050-1.052 (hard to tell because of the foam)

How will this effect my recipe, aside from some dilution

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Some extra beer . Getting a perfectly accurate gravity reading with extract is pretty tough as is, but I have found this beer to be pretty forgiving. Your extra water and extra extract should even out, more or less.

Made this today. My timing was slightly off on the EKG addition but I figure the worst that will happen is I made beer

Will there be any issue if I use a plastic carboy for the 7day secondary fermentation? It's not too long of a time so I am not sure if the plastic permeability would be an issue or not?
Thanks

stever1000 said:

Will there be any issue if I use a plastic carboy for the 7day secondary fermentation? It's not too long of a time so I am not sure if the plastic permeability would be an issue or not?
Thanks

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You'll be fine with plastic. That's how I did mine.

Permeability isn't an issue until you start talking months.

mdbrewer1 said:

You'll be fine with plastic. That's how I did mine.

Permeability isn't an issue until you start talking months.

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Excellent, that will save me a trip in the morning!

I will apologize for my beginner questions, but I don't want to mess up this batch after reading all the praise for it.

If I am aiming for a Final Gravity of 1.015, this is before I add the vanilla extract, and before I transfer to the secondary on top of the vanilla extract, right?

What will the vanilla extract do to the FG from the primary since the extract is mostly alcohol? Should I also take a final gravity reading at the end of the 7 days in the secondary?

Also, what would be the effect of changing the primary/secondary times? Like using 3 weeks primary, 4 days secondary? Or some other ratio of longer primary time?

Thanks in advance!

stever1000 said:

I will apologize for my beginner questions, but I don't want to mess up this batch after reading all the praise for it.

If I am aiming for a Final Gravity of 1.015, this is before I add the vanilla extract, and before I transfer to the secondary on top of the vanilla extract, right?

What will the vanilla extract do to the FG from the primary since the extract is mostly alcohol? Should I also take a final gravity reading at the end of the 7 days in the secondary?

Also, what would be the effect of changing the primary/secondary times? Like using 3 weeks primary, 4 days secondary? Or some other ratio of longer primary time?

Thanks in advance!

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No worries. We were all beginners once.

Yes. 1.015 is the target before any additions, but I doubt the vanilla extract will have any effect on your gravity reading. It is such a small volume compared to the 5 gallons of beer. No need to take a gravity reading after secondary as long as you verified it was done fermenting before transferring it. It shouldn't have changed.

If it is the ABV you are trying to figure out, I just use an online calculator based on my gravity readings and then add to it the contribution of whatever alcohol you used to make your extract.

Once you get past 2-3 weeks in primary and have verified it has finished fermenting, you aren't gaining anything by going longer. The yeast have done their job and finished cleaning up after themselves by that point. Changing the secondary time may affect the amount of vanilla flavor it picks up if you're adding the beans. If you're just adding extract that has been sitting with the beans for quite a while, it might not be as big of a deal.

If you're flexible in your timing, you can start taking samples after a couple days in secondary to see if the vanilla flavor is where you want it. If after a week or so it isn't enough, you can add some extract at bottling. I added an extra 1 1/2 Tbsp to bump it up a bit.

Thanks for the info - that definitely clears up all my questions. I will check the FG and transfer to the secondary when it is 1.015

mgonbrewlab said:

Some extra beer . Getting a perfectly accurate gravity reading with extract is pretty tough as is, but I have found this beer to be pretty forgiving. Your extra water and extra extract should even out, more or less.

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Ok, so I brewed the beer on the 13th and due to running out of sanitizer, I wasn't able to check my FG until today, 28th.

Anyway, the FG was 1.016

Is this close enough to rack into the secondary? Or should I wait a couple more days to see if it will drop to 1.015?

Definitely close enough. It may finish in secondary or it may be done, either way there's no need to wait.

I haven't read thru the posts, but right from the beginning... Love the name. None More Black is a great band.

Hopefully it's not a problem to leave this in secondary for a couple of weeks?

Due to some issues at home I didn't have time to rack this on vanilla and it went straight to bottling after 3weeks. It's been 2 weeks in the bottle as of tonight and it tastes great!! Can't wait to try with some vanilla

I had one bottle that was about 3/4 full, so I threw it in the fridge and tasted tonight. Only been in the bottle for a week and it was FANTASTIC!!! I can only imagine how good it will be with a couple more weeks in the bottle. This was my first journey away from Mr. Beer!

Debating between making this and Yoopers oatmeal stout, anybody made both?

How prominent is the vanilla in this? I've made a vanilla porter with 4 beans and an imperial porter with a couple and neither had the vanilla flavor I was looking for. I got the beans from beanilla which seems to be a pretty prominent source so I don't think the beans were bad.

I'm mainly looking for a good base, a little chocolate in the background, some coffee, vanilla that isn't hidden, I want to know its there, all followed with some bitter roastiness.

I still remain underwhelmed with this recipe and even though it finished a bit high, and many like it, it's not great, IMO. I'm not sure I can even call this a stout. Maybe a vanilla porter.
Mine's been in the keg awhile as I fight to finish it and the vanilla is losing it's punch. There definitely needs to be more roast in this for balance as far as what I like in a stout.

Beer-lord said:

I still remain underwhelmed with this recipe and even though it finished a bit high, and many like it, it's not great, IMO. I'm not sure I can even call this a stout. Maybe a vanilla porter.
Mine's been in the keg awhile as I fight to finish it and the vanilla is losing it's punch. There definitely needs to be more roast in this for balance as far as what I like in a stout.

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If you like more roast, just wait it out. I always save 1 bottle of each batch to try at 6 months and another to try at 12 months. At 6 months the roast flavor was very pronounced. At 12 months it was so strong I couldn't finish it.

I am barely hitting the keg as I wait and do have a few bottles sitting in wait as well. Its definitely drinkable, just not what I expected.
It's certainly not something I'd pitch out.

I wonder if the black patent is causing the roast flavor to become too strong over time? Maybe drop it to .25lb would help that. I don't have much experience creating recipes but from looking around even some much bigger stouts only use .25lb - .5lb of black patent.

Just brewed this tonight.... Fingers crossed.

histo320 said:

Boil for 70 minutes


Enjoy!

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Fairly new to brewing, less than a year, but I'm having a ton of fun doing it.

A question I have, and sorry if it has already been asked, how much water are you adding to the grain wort when you do the boil? Also, are you adding the extract to the boil as well?

I've done a few extract brews, but I've never had to boil it for 70 minutes before.

Thanks for you reply!

Allan--

70 min boil is correct. You want to have your total boil volume around 6 gallons or so. You will boil off some water during the boil and lose some to the sludge in the bottom after the boil. 6 gallons should yield about 5 gallons when you are done...

Recipe Type: Extract
Yeast: White Labs Irish Ale
Batch Size (Gallons): 5
Original Gravity: 1.054
Final Gravity: 1.015
IBU: 19.0
Boiling Time (Minutes): 70
Color: 46.4 SRM
Primary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 14 days at 70
Secondary Fermentation (# of Days & Temp): 7 days at 70
Tasting Notes: Malty with a great vanilla after taste.

6 lb. Dark Liquid Malt Extract
1 lb. Dark Dry Malt Extract
.75 lb. Black Patent Malt
.25 lb. Roasted Barley
1 oz Cluster (7.00%) at 60 minutes
1 oz East Kent Goldings (4.00) at 20 minutes
1 tsp Irish moss at 15 minutes
2.5 Tablespoons of Vanilla Extract (add to secondary)
1 White Labs Irish Ale Yeast

Steeped grains at 150F for 35 minutes in oven

Boil for 70 minutes

After 14 days move to secondary and rack on top of 2.5 tbsp of vanilla.
(I know I should have soaked beans in bourbon, but thought i would try this, so far so good)

kmenard said:

70 min boil is correct. You want to have your total boil volume around 6 gallons or so. You will boil off some water during the boil and lose some to the sludge in the bottom after the boil. 6 gallons should yield about 5 gallons when you are done...

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Thanks for the reply kmenard. Just for my clarification, does the boil include the wort from the grain AND the extract? I want to be 100% sure before I start anything.

From looking at a ton of posts on this thread, this beer seems to be worth the effort and I'm looking forward to getting started.

Thanks again!!

Allan-

Yes your total volume is the water from the grains and extract, so you should be very close to 6 gallons after you add both.

Thanks so much for the clarification bolus14! Very much appreciated!

Allan--

This made me a stout lover.

Along with the vanilla extract, I added 6oz bourbon. Came out awesome, think it could be my best beer yet.

Can't wait to brew this again!

After seeing all the posts, I'm really looking forward to making this brew. Can't wait!!

Thanks to all of those that answered my questions!

Allan--

I can't wait to brew this on Sunday, I already have everything I need.

I brewed the extract version a little over a year ago and it was great. Now SWMBO is on me to brew it again. Today I ordered everything I need to brew it all grain and age it with oak. Going to brew in a few weeks and age it until October or November. Thanks again!

Here is another all-grain conversion that I'll try next month:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 6.66 gal
Post Boil Volume: 5.61 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 5.40 gal
Bottling Volume: 5.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.058 SG
Estimated Color: 42.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 20.3 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 65.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 65.0 %
Boil Time: 70 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
9 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 1 64.3 %
3 lbs Barley, Flaked (1.7 SRM) Grain 2 21.4 %
1 lbs Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.1 %
8.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.6 %
8.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.6 %
0.50 oz Cluster [7.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 12.6 IBUs
0.70 oz East Kent Goldings (EKG) [5.00 %] - Boil Hop 7 7.7 IBUs
0.50 tsp Irish Moss (Boil 10.0 mins) Fining 8 -
1.0 pkg Irish Ale Yeast (White Labs #WLP004) Yeast 9 -
Will use 1.5 liter liquid yeast starter (StirStarter) - probably not necessary but I like doing this

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, No Mash Out
Total Grain Weight: 14 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Mash In Add 18.20 qt of water at 165.5 F 154.0 F 60 min
Igloo Cooler preheated to approx 154F

Sparge: Fly sparge with 4.0 gal water at 165.0 F
This might be a bit short; typically recipes call for 0.5 gal/lb grain, but I rarely need all that

Water Profile: Will use combination of tap water and RO water, adjusted with brewing salts per Bru'N Water recommendation for "Black Balanced" water profile.

Notes:
------
1. Bubble pure O2 in wort for 45 seconds prior to pitching yeast (and starter).
2. Primary fermentation for 14 days. Add 2-3 Madagascar vanilla beans (Whole Foods); split these in half, scrape out the beans, cut the skins in small pieces and soak all of this just above the level of the beans in bourbon for 1 week. Add beans and bourbon to secondary for 7 days.

Minor mod to the above all-grain version:

8.0 oz Black (Patent) Malt (500.0 SRM) Grain 3 7.1 %
10.0 oz Caramel/Crystal Malt - 80L (80.0 SRM) Grain 4 3.6 %
10.0 oz Roasted Barley (300.0 SRM) Grain 5 3.6 %

This results in a color of 33.8 SRM instead of 42.5 SRM (so my version isn't exactly "None More Black").

The reason for this change is that the 16 oz of black malt (500 SRM) made the mash way too acidic, and I couldn't modify my water profile enough to get the mash pH to 5.2-5.4. By using half the black malt and a bit more of the other two specialty grains, I was able to hit a mash pH of 5.3 and a black balanced water profile (per Bru'N Water) with 50% RO water, 50% Irvine Calif tap water, 0.25 gram/gal (times 2) chalk, 0.25 gram/gal calcium chloride, and 0.25 gram/gal epsom salt.

I'm brewing on Sunday. I expect primary fermentation will be done (per hydrometer readings) in 10-11 days rather than 14, but we'll see. I'll report results in about 5 weeks.

Brewing Notes for above all-grain recipe:

Measured OG = 1.062
Measured FG = 1.010
ABV = 6.8%
BeerSmith calculated efficiency 70.7%
Existing Water Profile (Irvine, CA tap water), ppm: Calcium 27, Magnesium 5, Sodium 58, Sulfate 45, Chloride 19, Bicarbonate 185
50% RO water dilution
Mash 1.31 qt/lb at 154F
Mash Water Additions: 1.1 g Epsom Salt, 1.1 g Calcium Chloride, 1.1x2=2.2 g Chalk
Sparge Water Additions (6 gallons): 1.5 g Epsom Salt, 1.5 g Calcium Chloride, 4.1 mL lactic acid (88%)
Finished Water Profile, ppm: Calcium 58, Magnesium 9, Sodium 33, Sulfate 49, Chloride 43, Bicarbonate 181, SO4/Cl Ratio 1.12
Estimated Mash pH (room T) = 5.3. Measured room T pH = 5.49 after 30 minutes mash, 5.40 in runoff prior to sparge.

Collected 6.7 gallons wort, but with 70 min boil and 71 oz in boil kettle not transferred to conical fermentor, probably transferred only 5.1 gallons to fermentor. Dumped ~1 qt trub prior to secondary fermentation and left 34 oz in fermentor after kegging. Therefore kegged about 4.7 gallons. Next time will collect more wort.

Used 1.5 liters of liquid yeast starter and bubbled oxygen through wort for 45 seconds prior to pitching.

After 11 days dumped trubbed and added 3 prepared Madagascar vanilla beans that had soaked in 1-2 oz of Maker's 46 bourbon (man did that combo smell good). SG was 1.012 when beans/bourbon were added.

Transferred to keg 5 days after adding vanilla beans/bourbon (16 days total from start of primary fermentation). As noted above, FG was 1.010 - considerably lower than BeerSmith predicted (not sure why).

TASTING NOTES: 5 days after kegging (force carbonated at 30 psi for 3 days), this beer tasted very good. I suspect it will mellow out a bit after another week or two. The vanilla flavor counterbalances the stout really well, although the next time I make this I'll probably use 2 vanilla beans rather than 3. I think the vanilla flavor is a bit too strong. So far everyone who has tried the beer likes it a lot, and although maybe my friends are easy to please, this is definitely a recipe I'll repeat many times.

bolus14 said:

Yes your total volume is the water from the grains and extract, so you should be very close to 6 gallons after you add both.

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So let me get this correct...we need to start off with 6 gallons? All the extract batches I have done have said to start with 3 gallons and top off to 5gal in the fermenter (i.e. partial boil).

any reason why this is different? Can we do either way?

Thanks!

Resurrect!

For my very first attempt at brewing, I'm trying the OP recipe, with a few changes:

7lbs LME instead of 6 (Kind of an accident. That's the size of jug I got, and poured too much, so just added it all).
1 lb. Dark Dry Malt Extract
.75 lb. Black Patent Malt
.25 lb. Roasted Barley
1 lb. Flaked Oats
1 oz Cluster (7.00%) at 60 minutes
1 oz East Kent Goldings (4.00) at 20 minutes
1 tsp Irish moss at 15 minutes
2 Tablespoons of Vanilla Extract (add to secondary)
2 oz Bourbon soaked Oak chips (add to secondary)
1 Wyeast 1084 (Irish Ale)

I just brewed yesterday. Original Gravity at 1.061. Pitched yeast at 72F at about 4pm. My yeast pack sat for about 4 hours and the never swelled, so I was kinda worried. It was about 8 months old also. My wort also got a little cooler than expected overnight to about 62F, and seems slow starting. The bucket was pressurizing, and saw a couple bubbles, but few and far between. I put sanitizer in the airlock, and it was almost all sucked in from the pressure on the lid. I took it off and the bucket de-pressurized, and I refilled with water, so hoping I didn't mess up there. It's back up to about 67F now and holding, so hoping it takes off soon. Haven't really seen any bubbles in the last 6 hours or so, but haven't been watching it close either.

Wish me luck!

Sounds like your yeast was a little old, and I'm sure the cold didn't help. If you used Star San as your sanitizer, no worries as the wort will simply neutralize it and (supposedly) convert it into yeast food. Try to keep your fermenter from getting so cold for a day or so and it should be fine.

Resurrecting this one. New brewer here. On my third batch, this is the first not off a kit (NB Chinook and NB Dead ringer extract kits so far). Love stout and wanted to give this a try.

I scaled this to a 3 gallon batch. Unfortunately missed some quick math on 3lb 9.6oz on the LME. Used 45-46oz instead of 57-58oz. Everything else was fine and it appeared I hit the OG at 1.054 before pitching.

Should I bother trying to do anything at this point (pitched about 3 hours ago)? Or just let it go and accept the worst thing might be slightly less flavor? Thanks for any help.

You can certainly add the additional DME at this point (or any point, really), but if you're satisfied with your OG then there's really no need. Personally, I'd add it, as I like my stouts "hearty", but I can understand not wanting to mess with your batch, especially if it's one of your first.

Cool, thank you. I guess you mean I could add DME when I rack to secondary to add some fullness to the beer?

I'm a week into primary, which looks like it has slowed down quite a bit. Will be moving it from 68 deg room to 70-72 in a few days.

Popping back in to say I still brew this at least once a year. Ordering ingredients again in the next day or so